(Topic ID: 82803)

Stern Star Trek multiball magnet *Solution found*


By nodyeliab

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 539 posts
  • 81 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by paul_8788
  • Topic is favorited by 34 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 25 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

004-120.JPG
003.JPG
IMG_20140629_070106.jpg
IMG_20140629_070201.jpg
shelted.jpg
radiation-twisted-pairs-1359143187_500_289_75.jpg
ST Premium Optos.jpg
Untitled.jpg
ferrite-clip-on-hem3012.jpg
ferrite core.jpg
wires2.JPG
wires1.JPG
222030-i.jpg
14454078532_e6429bfbf5_b-2.jpg
14454317984_abbcc55fa8_b-655.jpg
twisted wire.png

There are 539 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 11.
#151 5 years ago

I just tested some testing with the Vengeance on an LE (1.42).

My results seem to be similar to others with the Vengeance issues... When the left flipper is up...strange things seem to happen. However my results seemed a bit different...I think there may be 2 different issues. I will also add that my first few tests were 100% normal...it took a handful of games to get the unexpected results.

The quicker a ball trips the opto after a flipper is pressed the more likely that the machine is fail to record the opto being tripped found that holding the flipper and tripping the opto with a bit of a time lapse would register a hit strangely enough. To add to the strangeness when the flipper button was held, and a hit was registered, the machine failed to release the magnet until it timed out even though a 3rd ball was kicked out...

Someone else had mentioned a scoring issue by pressing the flippers while the balls are locked. I did see this once but I was unable to track down what exactly caused this issue.

Note that I have not tired the fix that nodyeliab metioned above yet, and I have had similar behavior with Vengance on all of the LE codes that have been released.

#152 5 years ago

fresh out of the box today with this.. only had one successful multiball, all the rest stick and timeout

#153 5 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

The way the edge connectors are orientated, pushing the pins towards the center of the board would probably work better. I still recommend removing the female connectors and increasing the tension on those instead.
.

Please clear this up.. I'm confused when you say instead..... push the two prong inwards now for part one above. Part two you say instead? What is that? the other larger connector on this board?

#154 5 years ago

I actually just tried this on my BBH which was having opto problems in the ram - bending the pins in a bit fixed the problem, so it must be connector related.

Stern - if you are reading this - the opto connectors are worth a look.

#155 5 years ago
Quoted from JimB:

Please clear this up.. I'm confused when you say instead.....

I meant instead of bending the male pins, check or adjust the female connectors. From a few posts earlier...

Quoted from phishrace:

Use a safety pin or some other small point to push down on the thin tab that holds each connector in, then pull it out the back of the connector. Once you have it out, bend the 'edge' that connects to the pin out slightly. Then slide it back in and try again. Do one (wire) at a time, so you don't mix anything up.

#156 5 years ago

Spoke to Stern today and they had not heard
About this problem
Even though they read the post about bending
The pins
Any one has a picture of these pins ?

Sound like defect and needs a recall

#157 5 years ago
Quoted from rvdv:

Spoke to Stern today and they had not heard
About this problem
Even though they read the post about bending
The pins
Any one has a picture of these pins ?
Sound like defect and needs a recall

Weird because I emailed them a week ago about it and Patrick replied with some suggestions - none of them cured it.

#158 5 years ago

Hello everyone! This is my first post here since I wanted to add my input about this problem which I also had with my ST PRO. I had the two balls getting stuck in the magnet under the Vengeance during multiball and also the issue where scoring would go up when hitting the flipper buttons when the balls we're locked behind the drop target.
In my case I found out that in switch test when blocking the optos under the Vengeance, hitting the flipper buttons (coin door closed) caused flickering in the activated optos in the switch matrix. I figured it might have something to do with bad connections or a failed opto board (under the playfield) that caused the optos to reset when coils we're drawing power. I started by swapping between two opto boards under the playfield (which helped some of you) and reseating the switch connectors inside the backbox with no luck. Finally I pulled out the receiver optos (from ball tunnel under the Vengeance) and reflowed the solder on them. After that I haven't had any problems with balls getting stuck in the magnet or with the scoring when balls are locked. The switch test also indicates that everything is OK now since the flickering is gone now when I hitting the flipper buttons.
Could it be that some these games have optos from a bad batch with cold solder joints? Who knows. Might be that this was only my case.

#159 5 years ago

Do you have a pic of what you did - might try this

#160 5 years ago

500-6775-01.jpg

I didn't take pictures of my game when I was troubleshooting but here's a pic of the opto/optos you should take out. Just reflow the small solder points on the little PCB with a soldering iron to make sure the connection is good.
These receivers are located on the right hand side of the ball tunnel. To get your hands on these you have to at least take off the Vengeance ship, and the plastics on the tunnel and the receiver optos. If you are really handy and have small hands and a small screw driver you will be able to take out the optos without taking off any of the ramps.

#161 5 years ago
Quoted from sillyoldelf:

Weird because I emailed them a week ago about it and Patrick replied with some suggestions - none of them cured it.

I also talked to them also about this issue over the phone.

#162 5 years ago

Though I am happy to say my problem is completely gone now after cleaning and bending out the connectors in the plug!

#163 5 years ago

I'm confused about which pins you bent and how.

#164 5 years ago

The pins are where the opto connects onto the board on the pf. The problem is a poor connection between the opto board and 2 pin connectors...

#165 5 years ago

So now I'm even more confused than ever. Is it the optos, the boards, the connectors, the software, or all of the above?

I actually have to go over to Stern today to pick up a new leg for my STLE. I'll call them and see if they can provide me some new optos while I'm there. I might as well cover all my bases. Do I need just new receivers, or new transmitters as well?

#166 5 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

So now I'm even more confused than ever. Is it the optos, the boards, the connectors, the software, or all of the above?
I actually have to go over to Stern today to pick up a new leg for my STLE. I'll call them and see if they can provide me some new optos while I'm there. I might as well cover all my bases. Do I need just new receivers, or new transmitters as well?

I I can’t speak for everyone here, but for me, it seems to be the connector on the opto itself (the plastic piece that has the two wires). I had to push them out of the plastic connector piece, I then took and eraser to clean the front of the connector that actually makes contact with the male pins on the opto controller board, then cleaned it off with alcohol. I then bent them a little bit out so more pressure would be on the male connector (sorry I didn’t take pictures).

Of course I could be wrong on all of this, because someone reported that they had a cold solder joint on the opto itself, it might be that just moving the wire made connection again and it wasn’t the connector at all. I will have to play around with it some more.

#167 5 years ago
Quoted from nodyeliab:

I I can’t speak for everyone here, but for me, it seems to be the connector on the opto itself (the plastic piece that has the two wires). I had to push them out of the plastic connector piece, I then took and eraser to clean the front of the connector that actually makes contact with the male pins on the opto controller board, then cleaned it off with alcohol. I then bent them a little bit out so more pressure would be on the male connector
.

This is the better method (long term fix) to crimp the connector a bit more for better contact. The pin bending will work but will probably eventually need to be done again.

#168 5 years ago

My ST Pro is shipping out today. I've been following this thread in anticipation. I will provide commentary (good or bad) on my magnet performance. (I know it's not actaully the magnet ... but you get the point )

Thanks to everyone so far.

#169 5 years ago

I tried bending the wires but I still have the problem.

#170 5 years ago
Quoted from Ramjet:

I tried bending the wires but I still have the problem.

You may have a bad opto

#171 5 years ago

Can someone tell me how to remove the ship assembly to get to the optos on the Pro? If I just remove the plastics on the right, there's no way I can get enough clearance to remove the screws holding the optos down. It seems like I'll need to remove both ramps on the left? Please tell me Stern didn't make maintenance this difficult on this game.

edit: Damn, this has to be the biggest pain in the ass game to work on. Everything is layered on top of each other, and getting to one thing seems to require removing every single thing around it. Plus there's lots of spacers, nuts, and washers used all over the place. PITA!

Someone has got to have an easier way to get to these f'ing optos?

#172 5 years ago

I don't follow how if the opto is working fine in tests it can still be bad to cause this problem?

#173 5 years ago
Quoted from sillyoldelf:

I don't follow how if the opto is working fine in tests it can still be bad to cause this problem?

Well it seems to be related to the flippers, so maybe there's a current draw on the circuit that's affecting something.

I'll tell you this: I have my games in the garage, on a circuit with the house. Shadow, Scared Stiff, EATPM, when I play them there are no issues. I play Star Trek and the house light flicker (need to get a new circuit run out to the garage). So the game draws some juice!

#174 5 years ago

a bad solder joint on the opto can cause the switch to flicker from the vibration of the flippers. not every flip, but often enough to mess up the gameplay.

#175 5 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

a bad solder joint on the opto can cause the switch to flicker from the vibration of the flippers. not every flip, but often enough to mess up the gameplay.

Wouldn't a flickering opto mean it would register as a hit? I guess that would be the case if it was the transmitter, so if it is the opto it would have to be the receiver that has the issue.

Also, on mine I checked the current draw to the transmitter opto when pressing the flipper versus not, it didn't change at all. So I doubt its the transmitter.

#176 5 years ago
Quoted from flashburn:

Wouldn't a flickering opto mean it would register as a hit? I guess that would be the case if it was the transmitter, so if it is the opto it would have to be the receiver that has the issue.

Also, on mine I checked the current draw to the transmitter opto when pressing the flipper versus not, it didn't change at all. So I doubt its the transmitter.

ST uses transceivers. Both optos can transmit and receive. What problem are you seeing?

#177 5 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

ST uses transceivers. Both optos can transmit and receive. What problem are you seeing?

The exact same problem everyone else is having in this thread. I still think it's a SW issue.

#178 5 years ago
Quoted from flashburn:

I still think it's a SW issue.

Why would you think that? If it happens on some machines and not others Occam's Razor says it's a hardware issue. I have never even once had it happen to my Trek, running the same software as people who have. Furthermore, people messing with their optos seems to fix it at least temporarily, again, not a software problem.

Now maybe there's a hardware flaw that could be addressed in software, you can fix physical problems with software sometimes. But that's not the same thing.

#179 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Why would you think that? If it happens on some machines and not others Occam's Razor says it's a hardware issue. I have never even once had it happen to my Trek, running the same software as people who have. Furthermore, people messing with their optos seems to fix it at least temporarily, again, not a software problem.
Now maybe there's a hardware flaw that could be addressed in software, you can fix physical problems with software sometimes. But that's not the same thing.

I agree completely - connector/opto issue not s/w

#180 5 years ago

Talked to Chas today. Picking up some new optos tomorrow. Will report back.

#181 5 years ago
Quoted from tonymiddendorf:

My ST Pro is shipping out today. I've been following this thread in anticipation. I will provide commentary (good or bad) on my magnet performance. (I know it's not actaully the magnet ... but you get the point )
Thanks to everyone so far.

Unboxed and played about 30-50 games last night. Only one incident of hitting the held ball and sticking. Of course, that could get worse in time. My MFG date was 3/10/14 ... not sure if that has anything to do with when batches of optos get installed or anything ...

On another note, I had several instances of the drop target not falling on a square hit. I think that's in a thread somewhere else though. Probably just need to add a washer or something ...

#182 5 years ago

Great most of you had your st a while or this start fresh out of box I'm about to order a pro next week hope I don't have this to look foreword to

#183 5 years ago
Quoted from tonymiddendorf:

On another note, I had several instances of the drop target not falling on a square hit. I think that's in a thread somewhere else though. Probably just need to add a washer or something ...

Unlike the magnet/opto issue, you should find that this will get better over time. This was happening to my drop target a lot when I first unboxed the game, but now it rarely happens. If it isn't getting better, I believe you can increase the tension on the spring.

#184 5 years ago
Quoted from tonymiddendorf:

Unboxed and played about 30-50 games last night. Only one incident of hitting the held ball and sticking. Of course, that could get worse in time. My MFG date was 3/10/14 ... not sure if that has anything to do with when batches of optos get installed or anything ...
On another note, I had several instances of the drop target not falling on a square hit. I think that's in a thread somewhere else though. Probably just need to add a washer or something ...

I set mine up two days ago and found the same - no opto problem so far but a drop that doesn't always like to fall.

#185 5 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Unlike the magnet/opto issue, you should find that this will get better over time. This was happening to my drop target a lot when I first unboxed the game, but now it rarely happens. If it isn't getting better, I believe you can increase the tension on the spring.

Quoted from WeirPinball:

I set mine up two days ago and found the same - no opto problem so far but a drop that doesn't always like to fall.

I noticed that it even got better over the course of the night. I'm going to just wait it out, but if I end up lifting the playfield for something else, I'll probably tighten up that spring a bit while I'm down there.

Seems like a much easier issue than the optos.

I should also mention that a buddy of mine had some major opto issues on his NIB ST Pro. Some were even a result of flaws on the board(s) in the backbox in addition to the under playfield opto boards. He had a local tech come out and do some board work and replace some optos and I believe Stern footed the bill. All opto issues were solved after this. (I think he mentioned there were trough issues, issues with the spinner registering when you flipped the flipper, and a few others I can't remember) So, it's tough to tell if those were isolated to his machine or are related to the issues in this thread ...

#186 5 years ago

There is something about this issue that I find perplexing. When the second ball is stuck to the first on the magnet, the flippers will score points. What do you guys think causes this?

#187 5 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

There is something about this issue that I find perplexing. When the second ball is stuck to the first on the magnet, the flippers will score points. What do you guys think causes this?

I've seen the sticking ball, but never seen the flippers score points. Assuming you can either hear or see the points being scored, try to narrow down what's awarding them. Someone else mentioned their opto board was causing phantom hits on the right ramp. Are you getting Vengeance hits, or right ramp hits? I'm also assuming you've reseated all the opto connectors on both opto boards.

#188 5 years ago

Add another to the growing list... I just unboxed my new ST Pro this weekend and I've only seen the multiball work correctly a couple times. Most times the second ball just sticks there with the first until it times out and lets them go. This is pretty sad that Stern would let an issue that seems so serious get past their quality control. I'm definitely not spending my own time and money to tear this thing apart and try to fix it myself. Stern better have some sort of reimbursement program for this issue to be fixed on a brand new game that I just spent good money on. On a side note, another issue I've noticed on my game is with the lockdown bar. It has those new clip things that lock it down, and when those clips are actually locked, the fire button does not work. When I undo the clips, the fire button does work. This isn't as serious to me as the multiball issue, but still not acceptable on a brand new game.

#189 5 years ago
Quoted from mo_twister:

Add another to the growing list... I just unboxed my new ST Pro this weekend and I've only seen the multiball work correctly a couple times. Most times the second ball just sticks there with the first until it times out and lets them go. This is pretty sad that Stern would let an issue that seems so serious get past their quality control. I'm definitely not spending my own time and money to tear this thing apart and try to fix it myself. Stern better have some sort of reimbursement program for this issue to be fixed on a brand new game that I just spent good money on. On a side note, another issue I've noticed on my game is with the lockdown bar. It has those new clip things that lock it down, and when those clips are actually locked, the fire button does not work. When I undo the clips, the fire button does work. This isn't as serious to me as the multiball issue, but still not acceptable on a brand new game.

Your lockdown bar issue sounds like the leaf switch is gapped too close and it closes when the bar is locked. Just spread it apart slightly if so. A switch test would confirm.

#190 5 years ago

Thanks for the reply about my lockdown bar... Sorry to be a pinball noob but I don't know what a leaf switch is... I assume it's the metal contact that activates when you press the fire button? Thanks again for the quick help!

#191 5 years ago
Quoted from mo_twister:

Thanks for the reply about my lockdown bar... Sorry to be a pinball noob but I don't know what a leaf switch is... I assume it's the metal contact that activates when you press the fire button? Thanks again for the quick help!

Yes you are correct on the switch. The contacts might be too close and they actually contact each other when you lock down the bar rendering the fire button useless. It's worth a look see

#192 5 years ago

Great I will check that tonight. As for the multiball issue... I hope we all figure something out soon...

#193 5 years ago

I had a bad over magnet opto that I replaced and is working now, still getting problems with stuck balls even tho I get no indication of bad switches in test flipping flippers etc. something weird going on..

#194 5 years ago

I went to Stern yesterday and picked up a new opto board and two new transceivers. It seems logical to replace one thing at a time and then see if the problem is fixed. Where do you guys think I should start?

#195 5 years ago

I replaced the lower opto, and so far things are working, but I haven't played it enough to know that it is a reliable fix. I'll post a note if it starts acting up again.

#196 5 years ago

Actually, before replacing an opto, I'd change the connector - a lot easier unless you know for sure the opto is shot.

#197 5 years ago

My opto was definitely shot.

#198 5 years ago
Quoted from Craig:

My opto was definitely shot.

Did you replace both transceivers, or just one?

#199 5 years ago

Just the lower one.

#200 5 years ago
Quoted from Craig:

Just the lower one.

The lower pair?

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
6,200 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Minneapolis, MN
$ 25.00
Cabinet - Other
Filament Printing
4,800 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Richmond, VA
$ 279.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball LEDs
There are 539 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 11.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside