(Topic ID: 82803)

Stern Star Trek multiball magnet *Solution found*


By nodyeliab

5 years ago



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  • 539 posts
  • 81 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by paul_8788
  • Topic is favorited by 34 Pinsiders

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There are 539 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 11.
#451 5 years ago
Quoted from nicoga3000:

Yeah, I'm confused. I thought I was doing it right by twisting the two wires together as I show in my pic.

Each connector has two wires attached to it. They are bonded together, but they are two separate wires nonetheless. In your photo, it looks like you have actually twisted tow PAIRS of wires together. This is the way Stern seems to be doing it now, but I agree that this may not be the best solution. Try separating them and twisting each pair individually.

#452 5 years ago

Nicoga,
You'll want to keep all the opto wires away from the thick black wires coming out of the electromagnet. These can be throwing out lots of noise too, and I noticed you zip tied the opto wires to them. Best just to let them hang and put some space between the mag wires and the opto wires. Also keep the mag wires away from the opto PCB. I wouldn't zip tie the opto wires to anything.

#453 5 years ago

Here's a before and after of a single opto.
IMG_20140629_070106.jpgIMG_20140629_070201.jpg

#454 5 years ago

So I corrected my optos and it still happens. I'll be in contact with Stern tomorrow. Thanks for the pics!

#455 5 years ago

The wrap and move away from magnet seems to work better on my machine since I did this. I see a difference for sure.

#456 5 years ago

Nicoga...try rerouting the wires all as far away from the magnet as you can get. I rerouted mine a while back before the twisting solution was found. So far I've only had one stick since doing that and I never bothered going back and twisting them (though I probably will next time I'm under the hood...just for good measure). With the amount of wire they have bundled up under there, you can actually route them pretty far away from the magnet and the wires that feed it. Good luck!

#457 5 years ago
Quoted from Jediturtle:

Nicoga...try rerouting the wires all as far away from the magnet as you can get. I rerouted mine a while back before the twisting solution was found. So far I've only had one stick since doing that and I never bothered going back and twisting them (though I probably will next time I'm under the hood...just for good measure). With the amount of wire they have bundled up under there, you can actually route them pretty far away from the magnet and the wires that feed it. Good luck!

My one that came from Stern twisted also has the wires routed fairly far away, especially on the bottom.

#458 5 years ago

also have the problem on my premium, got the pin 2 days ago but it was shipped from the US so production could be a few months back. Will lift the pf tomorrow to see if they wires are twisted in the factory or not.

#459 5 years ago

I will try and call after work. Had to take dog to vet yesterday (followed by crazy storms). I want this fixed because it's sort of a key feature for that mode.

#460 5 years ago

After around 500 games and never having this problem today it happened balls stuck but I played another few games and no issue odd hey, maybe time for new balls

#461 5 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Did you loop the wires through the ferrite core like this?

That's the correct way to put the ferrite bead on. The more times you loop it through, the more ac inductance you create because that's a choke. The more AC inductance you have the better the wires reject emi/rfi, since its equal to 2*Pi*F*L

#462 5 years ago

Well checked the wires today and they where factory twisted. So only thing I could think of that they needed to be further away from the magnet. 1 was indeed close. So I moved the wires as far away as possible. I have played about 20 games now and no more sticking of ball # 2.

#463 5 years ago

So I got a pro in last week, and have the same issue. I have twisted and moved the wires and noticed that the issue is still not resolved but a hard tilt does release the balls. I believe the balls have been magnetized. I now have the ultra gloss pinball life balls on the way, so we will figure out if that's the only issue remaining.

#464 5 years ago
Quoted from halpain24:

I believe the balls have been magnetized.

No need to guess. Will they pick up a paperclip?

#465 5 years ago

Well, I have been gone for the holiday weekend and my brother noticed the balls sticking together as they fall every time. I will have to check myself as soon as I get a chance.

#466 5 years ago
Quoted from nicoga3000:

So I corrected my optos and it still happens. I'll be in contact with Stern tomorrow. Thanks for the pics!

Did you ever have a chance to contact Stern? Just curious as to what they said.

#467 5 years ago

I received my ultra gloss pinball life balls and now some of the issue seems to be fixed, It eventually drops the balls but they still stick at first. So I have the wires twisted and moved away from the magnet. Non-magnetized balls, and have tested the opto in Diagnostics and it seems to work fine. However my distributor believes it is a faulty opto board and has called Stern for me and I have a new opto board on the way. Should be here around this weekend. We will see what happens then. I just hope that this gets solved eventually. NIB and not working 100% sucks. I assume that since the issue is already occurring Stern will eventually see it through, even if it goes past warranty dates to figure out the exact problem.

1 week later
#468 5 years ago

Update for my issue. Received a new Opto board today. Replacing the board has fixed the magnet not disengaging. When hitting the perfect shot I still have the two balls stick together slightly, but a light nudge drops both, the top ball seems to actually be resting on the top edge of the cliffy installed around the magnet (magnet is level with cliffy but cliffy obviously sits slightly above playfield) and the second ball seems to just be magnetized slightly to the other. I believe removing this cliffy would 100% fix the issue, but Im ok with a light nudge 1/10 times as opposed to wear.

#469 5 years ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Did you ever have a chance to contact Stern? Just curious as to what they said.

I've been back and forth with Pat via email. No luck with a solution yet. His last email said:

Try reseating the (2) and (5) pin connectors going to the opto amplifier boards under the playfield. Also, inspect the wires going into the connectors for poor crimps.

I told him the issue still persisted, so we'll see what he says.

#470 5 years ago

I tried twisting the wires months ago and it didn't help. I put the ferrite cores on from radio shack about 2 weeks ago and I have yet to have a ball stick, I've played about 10 to 15 games. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

#471 5 years ago

Same here ...
I really had ALL THE TIME problems with one ball sticking to the other one after a direct hit, at the start of Vengeance multiball. I tried really everything as described with guiding wires away from the magnet, twisting wires etc ...

Today I installed the Ferrite and problem is solved !!
Played a few games and it did not happen again.

Also here fingers crossed !

#472 5 years ago
Quoted from silverballgames:

Same here ...
I really had ALL THE TIME problems with one ball sticking to the other one after a direct hit, at the start of Vengeance multiball. I tried really everything as described with guiding wires away from the magnet, twisting wires etc ...
Today I installed the Ferrite and problem is solved !!
Played a few games and it did not happen again.
Also here fingers crossed !

Can you post a pic of where you put the ferrite cores?

1 week later
#473 5 years ago

I put the Ferrite cores in and, rerouted the wires and still have the problem, but I haven't twisted the wires like Kneissl shows above.

I think I'm going to start over and: Twist the wires, reroute again, put ferrite cores on.

If anyone has pictures of how they rerouted that would be great . . . just to see if I'm routing them similarly. And pics of the ferrite cores on the wires.

#474 5 years ago

I thought I had it fixed, twisted the wires, put the ferrite cores on but I'm stil having the same problem.

#475 5 years ago

For those of you that are experiencing this problem, when was your game manufactured? If Stern is still cranking out games with this issue, I'm at a loss for words.

#476 5 years ago

Mine is Star Trek LE #012 and I have had this problem sense day one but it only happens randomly and not very often. I did buy some ferrite cores from Radio Shack but haven't installed them yet. I haven't even raised the playfield sense the day it was delivered so it's only been open once. I decided to wait till the new code release to see if that had any effect on the problem or until Stern acknowledged the problem and a fix before I tried twisting the wires sense it would seem it doesn't work on everyone's game.

#477 5 years ago

For those having the problem: Are you guys using the original Stern balls or have you switched them out?
If you've switched them out, what type of balls are you using?

#478 5 years ago
Quoted from SaminVA:

Mine is Star Trek LE #012 and I have had this problem sense day one but it only happens randomly and not very often. I did buy some ferrite cores from Radio Shack but haven't installed them yet. I haven't even raised the playfield sense the day it was delivered so it's only been open once. I decided to wait till the new code release to see if that had any effect on the problem or until Stern acknowledged the problem and a fix before I tried twisting the wires sense it would seem it doesn't work on everyone's game.

I think Stern has implicitly acknowledged the problem because they are twisting wires on new machines now.

Quoted from steve1515:

For those having the problem: Are you guys using the original Stern balls or have you switched them out?
If you've switched them out, what type of balls are you using?

Pinballlife ultra-gloss balls to avoid magnetizing the balls.

#479 5 years ago
Quoted from steve1515:

For those having the problem: Are you guys using the original Stern balls or have you switched them out?
If you've switched them out, what type of balls are you using?

I am using pbl ultragloss and I have checked them to ensure they are not magnetized.

#480 5 years ago

I have changed the standard Stern balls to the PBL ultra gloss balls and still have the problem. I've twisted the wires, rerouted the wires, and installed ferrite cores. None of the above completely solves the problem. I too am waiting for the update to see if they've modified something with the software, though I doubt it'll fix it either. I would try new opto boards, but that isn't meeting with complete success by those who've tried it, either.

Come on Stern...some sort of explanation and solution should be available by now.

#481 5 years ago

As previously stated I had the problem and twisted wires, installed ferrite cores, switched to Pinball life ultra gloss balls and none fixed the issue. I received a new opto board from stern and after replacing the board the issue was immediately fixed and have had zero problems with the balls staying since. I have noticed those balls were slightly magnetized but even that has diminished since.

#482 5 years ago
Quoted from halpain24:

As previously stated I had the problem and twisted wires, installed ferrite cores, switched to Pinball life ultra gloss balls and none fixed the issue. I received a new opto board from stern and after replacing the board the issue was immediately fixed and have had zero problems with the balls staying since. I have noticed those balls were slightly magnetized but even that has diminished since.

Thanks Halpin! I just put in a request to Stern asking for assistance. I had an opto go bad a few weeks after unboxing and they sent a replacement immediately after contacting them. I hope this issue is resolved just as fast.

#483 5 years ago

If its the opto then the reason it sticks is that it's not registering the switch hit to say let go. You will know in advance if the new opto will fix your issue by testing the opto now in a switch test. Easy.

#484 5 years ago
Quoted from Spitfiren8:

I am using pbl ultragloss and I have checked them to ensure they are not magnetized.

x's 2

#485 5 years ago
Quoted from halpain24:

As previously stated I had the problem and twisted wires, installed ferrite cores, switched to Pinball life ultra gloss balls and none fixed the issue. I received a new opto board from stern and after replacing the board the issue was immediately fixed and have had zero problems with the balls staying since. I have noticed those balls were slightly magnetized but even that has diminished since.

Two questions:

1 - Before you replaced the board, were the optos registering properly in switch test?
2 - Which board are you talking about? The PCB under the playfield, or the little tranceiver above the playfield?

#486 5 years ago

i wonder if a piece of mylar, fit to the top of the magnet, would fix it....
hmm...i'm going to try it.

#487 5 years ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

i wonder if a piece of mylar, fit to the top of the magnet, would fix it....
hmm...i'm going to try it.

If the problem is caused by residual magnetism then it might. I also thought about trying the same thing.

#488 5 years ago

tried it, better, but it still likes to stick.

twisting of the wires has not helped, but a good hit will knock it out.

A code update can fix this, if the first set of optos detects a trigger, drop power to the magnet after a second.

#489 5 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Two questions:
1 - Before you replaced the board, were the optos registering properly in switch test?
2 - Which board are you talking about? The PCB under the playfield, or the little tranceiver above the playfield?

Yes I did test and it registered correctly. and it was the PCB. I cannot explain why it tested correctly but the issue has still been resolved ever since. No problems at all.

Quoted from TimeBandit:

If its the opto then the reason it sticks is that it's not registering the switch hit to say let go. You will know in advance if the new opto will fix your issue by testing the opto now in a switch test. Easy.

I would expect the same but as I stated above the opto tested fine. Not sire how to explain this, but glad it is working.

#490 5 years ago
Quoted from halpain24:

I received a new opto board from stern and after replacing the board the issue was immediately fixed and have had zero problems with the balls staying since. I have noticed those balls were slightly magnetized but even that has diminished since.

I did the same thing . . . replaced the board under the playfield, and I still get balls stuck.

FYI my optos were registering in switch test.

Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

A code update can fix this, if the first set of optos detects a trigger, drop power to the magnet after a second.

I'm hoping this is the case as the only thing I have left is to put in new optos and see if that helps other than that I got nothing.

#491 5 years ago

Mark this topic unresolved as it clearly is not. My STLE did not develop this issue till about 400 games . My machine will work as intended 60 % to 70 % of the time. But after twisting the opto wires and adding ferrite core beads last night. The pinballs will still get stuck during the Vengeance muti-ball 30 to 40 % of the time. Tested optos in switch test and they work. It is areal head scratcher . At least it is not a problem 100 % of the time. That being said . This issue is a real let down and not sure what can be done .

#492 5 years ago

Started after 400 games? Have you checked to see if the balls are magnetized? Looking at the other replies, it seems like others need to check too. Remove balls, hold them over a paper clip or safety pin. Simple test.

Factory balls shouldn't get magnetized in 400 plays, but Stern has obviously had problems acquiring quality balls lately. It's an easy test and should be the first thing you check when this problem comes up.

#493 5 years ago

i never understood what ''twisting of the wires'' would actually do

the problem happens when there is too much power at the magnet, and the shot, not being strong enough to knock it out.

Now, if they could put it in the code, the first opto set detects the ball. So you would still be able to smack the ball, as intended- but then cut power to the magnet completely after a second or so, after the first sets detection, so that if the ball gets stuck....
Should be problem solved.

#494 5 years ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

i never understood what ''twisting of the wires'' would actually do
the problem happens when there is too much power at the magnet, and the shot, not being strong enough to knock it out.
Now, if they could put it in the code, the first opto set detects the ball. So you would still be able to smack the ball, as intended- but then cut power to the magnet completely after a second or so, after the first sets detection, so that if the ball gets stuck....
Should be problem solved.

id say there's not enough power at the magnet as mine knocks that Ball up and the other takes it's place. My optos work, twisted and rerouted the wires and it's still not resolved
hopefully the new code can address this

#495 5 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Have you checked to see if the balls are magnetized

Yes I checked using staples . Pinballs are not magnetized .

#496 5 years ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

the problem happens when there is too much power at the magnet, and the shot, not being strong enough to knock it out.

No, that's not the problem. There's this misunderstanding that you're "knocking the ball off the magnet". That's not how it works. You simply have to break the front optos, and the held ball will be released. You don't have to even physically contact the held ball.

I could see a code fix changing how the sequence is handled and fixing it, I guess we'll see.

#497 5 years ago

I contacted Stern and they have new parts in the mail to me. Ill update status once they are installed.
BTW, Stern customer support rocks!

#498 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

No, that's not the problem. There's this misunderstanding that you're "knocking the ball off the magnet". That's not how it works. You simply have to break the front optos, and the held ball will be released. You don't have to even physically contact the held ball.

Aurich is absolutely correct. As soon as the lower opto is tripped, the magnet is supposed to shut off, and the multiball should start. You can test it with the glass off. Lock the first ball on the magnet, grab the second ball after it is launched into play, and then carefully break the beam with your finger. The first ball will be released. The problem people are having is that the opto isn't registering the second ball. As soon as the second ball trips the opto, you should get a "Vengeance hit" audio clip. When the opto doesn't work right, there is no audio clip, the magnet stays on, and the second ball sticks to the first.

#499 5 years ago
Quoted from RobKnapp:

Mark this topic unresolved as it clearly is not. My STLE did not develop this issue till about 400 games . My machine will work as intended 60 % to 70 % of the time. But after twisting the opto wires and adding ferrite core beads last night. The pinballs will still get stuck during the Vengeance muti-ball 30 to 40 % of the time. Tested optos in switch test and they work. It is areal head scratcher . At least it is not a problem 100 % of the time. That being said . This issue is a real let down and not sure what can be done .

Edit : I just spent two hours playing STLE and Vengeance Multi-Ball worked guessing first 10 plays 100 % . Then game 11& 12 up to its tricks pinball stuck together ,WTF . Game 13- 16 Vengeance Muti- ball worked as intended. My machine needs an Exorcist . I deem it Possessed .

#500 5 years ago

I've gotten a few requests for the status of my Star Trek magnet fix. Here's summarized chain of emails I had with Pat at Stern. For what it's worth, I seem to have managed to solve my problem, so hope those with persisting issues can get some help from Pat's final statement!

Me: I have a Star Trek Premium and have been experiencing an issue since I've had it. During the Vengeance multiball, you are supposed to use the ball to knock the held ball off the magnet to begin a 3-ball multiball. The problem is that when I hit this ball, the second ball gets stuck and doesn't release until the 15 second timer is up. On the Pinside.com forums, there is a thread about this. I have read and followed through with the changes/tweaks that everyone has suggested (twisting the opto wires to eliminate any noise), however this has not worked. I'm wondering if the board is bad or something else is wrong.

Pat: Do optic switches 33 and 34 register during switch test? Do either of these switches register during switch test if you pound on the playfield?

Me: Switches register during switch test and do not register when I pound the playfield.

Pat: Try reseating the (2) and (5) pin connectors going to the opto amplifier boards under the playfield. Also, inspect the wires going into the connectors for poor crimps.

Me: I checked everything and played a few games. Ball is still sticking. I noticed that it stuck with the right flipper one game, and the left flipper on another.

Pat: Please swap the amplifier boards under the playfield and see if the problem persists.

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