(Topic ID: 73040)

Stern Star Trek LE and The ColorDMD Will it Fit?


By SaminVA

5 years ago



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  • 171 posts
  • 40 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Dmod
  • Topic is favorited by 16 Pinsiders

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There are 171 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.
#1 5 years ago

Now that I have my Stern Star Trek LE I have been thinking about installing a ColorDMD. But before I shell out $400.00 I would like to know if it will fit in the LE. We know it will now work with the Sam system and it has been fitted into a few of the newer Stern games but Stern changer the DMD panel for Star Trek and to my knowledge no one has installed one in a Stern Star Trek yet but I believe it wont be long as I am sure sense they are now in stock again I am sure some are destined for the Star Trek pin. I do have a ColorDMD installed in my STTNG so I decided to remove it and make a template of the ColorDMD so I could use it to see how I could fit one in my new pin. I so much wanted it to work but to me it would seem in it's current configuration it just will not work. Wile the 4 outer mounting studs line up the 2 middle studs will have to be cut out of the way which is not a big problem and you would have to make spacers to hold the LCD panel away from the back side of the panel like it is on the STTNG which is also ok and would work. The problem is the LCD panel would drop below the bottom of the Star Trek speaker/DMD panel and that's the problem as the bottom of the panel sits flat on the bottom of the metal back box. So you could change the mounts and put the bottom of the LCD display so it lines up with the bottom of the DMD panel but then the viewing area of the LCD panel will not line up with the cutout on the DMD panel. If you could move the displayed area of the LCD on the panel to line up with the cut out area of the panel it should work but I am not sure if you can do this with the ColorDMD. I made a video showing what I am talking about. I hope we can find a way to make this work.
Star Trek ColorDMD 018.JPG

Post edited by SaminVA : added pic

#2 5 years ago

Congrats on the le. I think randy said no without modification.

#3 5 years ago

IIRC; the colorDMD has a longer side which sticks up in the Backbox on STNG. Are you sure you got the template "lined up" in the proper orientation?

#4 5 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

IIRC; the colorDMD has a longer side which sticks up in the Backbox on STNG. Are you sure you got the template "lined up" in the proper orientation?

Yep 100% positive.

#5 5 years ago

On our current bracket revision, the wider mounting tabs we added for Stern speaker panels extend all the way to the bottom of the bracket. You might be able to use these tabs and drill new holes to fit the STLE.

Adjusting the vertical position of the frame on the screen isn't an issue. We can add an option or adjustment to take care of that part.

Bracket.jpg

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

On our current bracket revision, the wider mounting tabs we added for Stern speaker panels extend all the way to the bottom of the bracket. You might be able to use these tabs and drill new holes to fit the STLE.
Adjusting the vertical position of the frame on the screen isn't an issue. We can add an option or adjustment to take care of that part.

Bracket.jpg 56 KB

Will you guys be getting a Star Trek to examine and determine options?

#8 5 years ago

Also, is it just the LE that's affected? What about Pro and Premium?

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from Part_3:

Will you guys be getting a Star Trek to examine and determine options?

Not right away, but we'll do our best to support efforts toward a solution.

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

Not right away, but we'll do our best to support efforts toward a solution.

Thank you. That's the most we can honestly ask for.

#11 5 years ago

What's the advantage of installing a ColorDMD into Stern machines? I'm assuming it's not full-color, like they've done for TAF, AFM, CFTBL, etc. so what would the ColorDMD add?

#12 5 years ago

Blue

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from pinball_happy:

What's the advantage of installing a ColorDMD into Stern machines? I'm assuming it's not full-color, like they've done for TAF, AFM, CFTBL, etc. so what would the ColorDMD add?

Full functionality of the SIGMA (single-color) ROM... custom selection of 97 colors, choice of display effect (dots, HD upscaling, scan lines), and none of the grid alignment errors inherent in most LED displays.

#14 5 years ago

Got to work out a way to fit on ST LE - would take it over the top!

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

On our current bracket revision, the wider mounting tabs we added for Stern speaker panels extend all the way to the bottom of the bracket. You might be able to use these tabs and drill new holes to fit the STLE.

Adjusting the vertical position of the frame on the screen isn't an issue. We can add an option or adjustment to take care of that part.

I would be interested in trying this so where do we order? What if it does not fit/work?

#16 5 years ago

All new ColorDMD displays include the latest bracket revision and can be used in most WPC/WPC95/SAM/WhiteStar games. For older displays we also offer a cable kit/bracket for use with SAM/Whitestar games, available on our site.

There are three known issues that will require some effort to overcome for new ST speaker panels:
(1) Removal/workaround for the center threaded posts on the speaker panel
(2) Replacement/fabrication of a clear plastic window to replace the red one
(3) Modification of the mounting holes on our bracket

We will also need to provide a firmware update for proper alignment of the video frame with the window.

If someone is able to work out or offer a solution to the first two issues, we should be able to help with the rest.

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

Full functionality of the SIGMA (single-color) ROM... custom selection of 97 colors, choice of display effect (dots, HD upscaling, scan lines), and none of the grid alignment errors inherent in most LED displays.

Any chance.. for those brave enough, to "self colorize" the code to show in multicolor on the display? If yes, will the software be available and some basic instructions alongside the colorDMD? This way the colorized version could be shared back and sell more displays as a result!

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

All new ColorDMD displays include the latest bracket revision and can be used in most WPC/WPC95/SAM/WhiteStar games. For older displays we also offer a cable kit/bracket for use with SAM/Whitestar games, available on our site.
There are three known issues that will require some effort to overcome for new ST speaker panels:
(1) Removal/workaround for the center threaded posts on the speaker panel
(2) Replacement/fabrication of a clear plastic window to replace the red one
(3) Modification of the mounting holes on our bracket
We will also need to provide a firmware update for proper alignment of the video frame with the window.
If someone is able to work out or offer a solution to the first two issues, we should be able to help with the rest.

The plastic window is red? I thought Stern was using a red LED DMD. No?

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from Part_3:

The plastic window is red? I thought Stern was using a red LED DMD. No?

Somebody on another thread fitted standard blue dmd.

#20 5 years ago

I'm definitely wanting a ColorDMD Sigma asap for my STLE. I don't want the blue LED version for two reasons: it would still have the grid pattern and it can't be upgraded with software when ST gets colorized...

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Somebody on another thread fitted standard blue dmd.

So what are the stock ones from Stern? White LED's with a plastic red window screen?

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from Part_3:

The plastic window is red? I thought Stern was using a red LED DMD. No?

The DMD is white with red LEDs in a 8x8 block array. If the window was clear it would look like a white DMD with red dots. Stern uses a clear red film placed behind the clear window to make everything look red and darken everything up. At least that's how they did it through Metallica.

I'm not sure if they now have gone to a clear red window and eliminated the separate film. If they have, that may be the issue going to a color display...no way to remove the separate film.

#23 5 years ago

Gotcha.

#24 5 years ago

I am super glad to hear ColorDMD is willing and able to help us make the ColorDMD compatible with the new Stern Star Trek. I did not know you had changed the bracket. The one I have on my STTNG was the first run released with the STTNG color ROMs so the mounting tabs are smaller but the spacing of the 4 corner mount holes seems to have the same spacing as the original DMD. I assume the new tabs are spaced out wider and are designed to use wood screws to mount in the new stern games. The Star Trek LE has no wood.
The way I see it we have 2 options, use the original 4 outer mounting bolts and cut the 2 inner studs off, drill 4 new holes in the LCD bracket so the bottom of the screen is flush with the bottom of the DMD speaker panel and it will have to have spacers to hold it out from the speaker panel which means it will have a gap between the LCD screen and the clear plexi which will be mounted on the same 4 corner bolts between the speaker panel and the spacers and the gap between can be filled with foam tape. The only problem with this might be the top of the LCD panel blocking the light at the bottom of the backglass as the LCD panel will be above the top of the speaker panel.
The other option would be to cut a wood panel to fit between the speakers and cut out the display area and mount the LCD panel with wood screws and a clear plexi will have to go between the wood and the speaker panel. I think the first option with the spacers would be the easiest way to go and if the holes in the LCD bracket could be added at the factory that would make it easy for most to install. Either way you would have to adjust the vertical position of the frame to make it work. I hope my ramblings make sense, I have never been good at explaining things in my head on paper. That's why I make videos.
Star Trek ColorDMD 017.JPG

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

All new ColorDMD displays include the latest bracket revision and can be used in most WPC/WPC95/SAM/WhiteStar games. For older displays we also offer a cable kit/bracket for use with SAM/Whitestar games, available on our site.
There are three known issues that will require some effort to overcome for new ST speaker panels:
(1) Removal/workaround for the center threaded posts on the speaker panel
(2) Replacement/fabrication of a clear plastic window to replace the red one
(3) Modification of the mounting holes on our bracket
We will also need to provide a firmware update for proper alignment of the video frame with the window.
If someone is able to work out or offer a solution to the first two issues, we should be able to help with the rest.

Randy,
I'll try to help as I can between my Star Trek: Mirror Universe work.
I already have a newest batch ColorDMD on the way and it's slated for this ST LE when it arrives.
John

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from SaminVA:

I am super glad to hear ColorDMD is willing and able to help us make the ColorDMD compatible with the new Stern Star Trek.

Not only that, but I'm assuming that this is not a one-off panel design for ST. I would think that Stern games will have this design going forward, at least for a while. So, it would make sense to figure out how to accommodate it (unless / until Stern incorporates an LCD).

#27 5 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

I already have a newest batch ColorDMD on the way and it's slated for this ST LE when it arrives.
John

Nice John. Hope you get your machine soon! I was in your boat until last Friday.. you won't be disappointed when it finally arrives. Let us know how you make out with this mod.

#28 5 years ago

Does anyone know if the Pro (and I assume Premium) also have this issue? Their speaker panel is different on the outside....not sure about the inside.

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from SaminVA:

I hope my ramblings make sense, I have never been good at explaining things in my head on paper. That's why I make videos.

Your first proposal is the direction that Chris and I had discussed...
(1) The LCD would need to be supported by spacers that are longer than the center posts (maybe use something like hex spacers to extend the outer posts), or
(2) Remove the center posts so the panel sits flush against the edges of the speaker panel. This is similar to mounting on a WPC95 speaker panel but the setback might be larger.
(3) The gap between the panel and the LCD could be filled with a foam seal or a bezel.

If this can yield acceptable results, then we can look into modifying our existing bracket with appropriate mounting holes for the outer posts.

Aligning the image to the window is not an issue.

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Randy,
I'll try to help as I can between my Star Trek: Mirror Universe work.
I already have a newest batch ColorDMD on the way and it's slated for this ST LE when it arrives.
John

Thanks John!

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

Your first proposal is the direction that Chris and I had discussed...
(1) The LCD would need to be supported by spacers that are longer than the center posts (maybe use something like hex spacers to extend the outer posts), or
(2) Remove the center posts so the panel sits flush against the edges of the speaker panel. This is similar to mounting on a WPC95 speaker panel but the setback might be larger.
(3) The gap between the panel and the LCD could be filled with a foam seal or a bezel.
If this can yield acceptable results, then we can look into modifying our existing bracket with appropriate mounting holes for the outer posts.
Aligning the image to the window is not an issue.

I agree, the spacer mounts like on STTNG WPC95 speaker panel is the way to go.
We will still have to cut the center studs, as they are spot welded to the panel but the 4 outer mounts are stainless steel star head bolts so we should be able to find longer bolts if needed. We can use the red plexi as a template to cut a clear one.
Wile I don't have a Star Trek Pro and they haven't made the premium yet, looking at the pictures of the speaker panels all 3 look to be the same size but I did notice wile watching TNT's video of the Star Trek Pro it looks like the DMD is mounted with all 6 studs which are welded to the back of the panel so you may have to use threaded hex spaces as it doesn't look like they are long enough but that's just a guess at this point.
As long as you can aligning the image to the window it can be done.
STLE 002.JPG

#32 5 years ago

I wonder if the Pinbits Stern DMD Cover- Clear would work as a drop in replacement when using the ColorDMD. They don't list the measurements but the picture looks to have the correct shape.
http://www.pinbits.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=62&products_id=450&zenid=8k77jm2aj31egjjpjj5fdo69f6
Pinbits SternDMDcover.jpg

#33 5 years ago

Would be cool to get colour dmd working in it. Wish stern would buy your product and put it in all their games.

#34 5 years ago
Quoted from SaminVA:

I wonder if the Pinbits Stern DMD Cover- Clear would work as a drop in replacement when using the ColorDMD. They don't list the measurements but the picture looks to have the correct shape.
http://www.pinbits.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=62&products_id=450&zenid=8k77jm2aj31egjjpjj5fdo69f6

Pinbits SternDMDcover.jpg 6 KB

I have the blue dmd from pinball life and I believe this is the same plastic cover that came with mine and no it does not fit. It's a butthair off. I was able to get it on the 2 center screws (tightl fit) but it was about an 1/8" too narrow to get the outside screws on. That said, I went with just the two screws and it worked fine. However, whatever blue dmd this one is that pinball life sells (xpin or stern?) it was WAY too harsh on the eyes while mixed in with the light show of STLE. I decided to put the red back in and in doing so, the center screws were so tight on the blue plastic, I broke one of the screw holes on the blue plastic protector when trying to take it out. No harm to the STLE, but I won't experiment again and leave that to the pros

Hope this helps.

SKB

#35 5 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

I have the blue dmd from pinball life and I believe this is the same plastic cover that came with mine and no it does not fit. It's a butthair off. I was able to get it on the 2 center screws (tightl fit) but it was about an 1/8" too narrow to get the outside screws on. That said, I went with just the two screws and it worked fine. However, whatever blue dmd this one is that pinball life sells (xpin or stern?) it was WAY too harsh on the eyes while mixed in with the light show of STLE. I decided to put the red back in and in doing so, the center screws were so tight on the blue plastic, I broke one of the screw holes on the blue plastic protector when trying to take it out. No harm to the STLE, but I won't experiment again and leave that to the pros
Hope this helps.
SKB

Well I guess I'll find out as I ordered the clear one from Pinbits and it should be here Saturday. If it doesn't fit I'll take the red original and use it to cut one by. I haven't ordered the ColorDMD yet, just trying to line up what I need to install it first. We will have to wait and see what Randy comes up with on their end with the ColorDMD.

#36 5 years ago

We don't have access to a ST right now, so we're waiting for someone else to take the lead. Just let us know what you need. Best to email directly: info@colordmd.com.

Randy

#37 5 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

We don't have access to a ST right now, so we're waiting for someone else to take the lead. Just let us know what you need. Best to email directly: info@colordmd.com.
Randy

I will as soon as I get the Sigma DMD in. UPS was supposed to deliver today but to do bad weather or still running behind. Hopefully tomorrow and we will see what it's going to take.

There are three known issues that will require some effort to overcome for new ST speaker panels:

(1) Removal/workaround for the center threaded posts on the speaker panel - I'll drill a hole for theses if possible.

(2) Replacement/fabrication of a clear plastic window to replace the red one - ALREADY DONE!

(3) Modification of the mounting holes on our bracket - Easy to do!

I am more worried about hook up and power. We will see. Excited!

#38 5 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

However, whatever blue dmd this one is that pinball life sells (xpin or stern?) it was WAY too harsh on the eyes while mixed in with the light show of STLE.

This is almost the real reason to use a ColorDMD IMHO, I find blue LEDs really painful to look at. I played a Tron with one, and while it looked nice color-wise with the game, it was just too harsh.

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

This is almost the real reason to use a ColorDMD IMHO, I find blue LEDs really painful to look at. I played a Tron with one, and while it looked nice color-wise with the game, it was just too harsh.

Agreed. It was so harsh on my eyes; I couldn't play. I had just got STLE and installed it after just a few games so at first I didn't know if it was the brightness of the game or blue dmd. Put the red back in, and thankfully my brain cells regulated themselves.

#40 5 years ago

Ok I got the ColorDMD today, I was going to try and mount it but I can't even get power to it. So, I will not be figuring out the mounting until I figure out the power problem.

#42 5 years ago

There are cables but I do not see the power cable.

#43 5 years ago

Did you buy the Cable Kit for the Sam/Whitestar which is another $19.00 listed in the accessories.
It has a 7' 12V/5V power cable with splitter,1' DMD ribbon cable (Whitestar)and 4 mounting screws
http://shop.colordmd.com/cable-kit-for-sam-whitestar/

#44 5 years ago

I did the problem is I am not sure exactly where they go. I'll figure it out, I try to get a phone call but no such luck yet.

#45 5 years ago
Quoted from wdpvideo:

I did the problem is I am not sure exactly where they go. I'll figure it out, I try to get a phone call but no such luck yet.

Install instructions are listed on Color DMD's website.... Here is the link to sam.
http://www.colordmd.com/Stern%20SAM%20Instructions%20RevH.PDF

#46 5 years ago

Well the clear Stern DMD cover I ordered from Pinbits arrived Saturday and wile it's close it's not a drop in replacement for the Star Trek LE. It may be possible to make it work which I comment on in my video but I'll probably just cut a new one using the stock red dmd as a template. It looks like it will be fairly simple to install the ColorDMD. The stock setup uses 4, 6-32 X 3/4" stainless steel tork head machine screws on the corners and the 2 studs in the center can he cut shorter with a dremel cutoff wheel and still used to hold the plexi. It has 6, 1/4" spacers between the red DMD cover and the LED display.
To mount the ColorDMD it looks like we will need to replace the 1/4" spacers on the 4 corners with 1/2" spacers (depending on the thickness of the clear plexi used) and the 4, 6-32 X 3/4" stainless steel tork head machine screws will need to be replaced with 4,6-32 X 1" 1/4" screws. A current ColorDMD will need to have 4 mounting holes drilled so the bottom of the LCD panel is even with the bottom of the DMD,speaker panel. Then it will be up to ColorDMD to adjust the frame position.
My video also shows how the speakers are assembled and the order of the grill and plexi. I hope to install blue LED strips on 3 sides of the speaker and leave the top open for the flasher. I might try putting some washers under the speakers to see if it will let more light in. Probably be a lot of trial and error to get it looking right. I wish we could see what they did to the one that was on the factory tour as they were very bright.

#47 5 years ago
Quoted from SaminVA:

Well the clear Stern DMD cover I ordered from Pinbits arrived Saturday and wile it's close it's not a drop in replacement for the Star Trek LE. It may be possible to make it work which I comment on in my video but I'll probably just cut a new one using the stock red dmd as a template. It looks like it will be fairly simple to install the ColorDMD. The stock setup uses 4, 6-32 X 3/4" stainless steel tork head machine screws on the corners and the 2 studs in the center can he cut shorter with a dremel cutoff wheel and still used to hold the plexi. It has 6, 1/4" spacers between the red DMD cover and the LED display.
To mount the ColorDMD it looks like we will need to replace the 1/4" spacers on the 4 corners with 1/2" spacers (depending on the thickness of the clear plexi used) and the 4, 6-32 X 3/4" stainless steel tork head machine screws will need to be replaced with 4,6-32 X 1" 1/4" screws. A current ColorDMD will need to have 4 mounting holes drilled so the bottom of the LCD panel is even with the bottom of the DMD,speaker panel. Then it will be up to ColorDMD to adjust the frame position.
My video also shows how the speakers are assembled and the order of the grill and plexi. I hope to install blue LED strips on 3 sides of the speaker and leave the top open for the flasher. I might try putting some washers under the speakers to see if it will let more light in. Probably be a lot of trial and error to get it looking right. I wish we could see what they did to the one that was on the factory tour as they were very bright.
ยป YouTube video

Great video. I would disagree about the display being off centered as that is already in the menu as the SAM option.
Here is a photo of the DMDCOLOR behind the panel.
DMDColor.jpg

I am close to modifying the bracket for the DMDColor. The only problem I haven't gotten around this in the photo.
BlueCable.jpg
This blue wire need to come off so I can place the bracket, modify the bracket and then place the DMDcolor back onto the bracket and then reconnect the blue wire. I may have to cut the bracket and slide the blue wire out of the slot that I cut to make the modifications to the bracket then put the DMDcolor back onto the mounting bracket. Hopefully I'll have something soon. I should have something to look at by Friday. It's now a problem that I will solve.

Also, I used the DK power tap inside the machine.
Screen Shot 2013-12-16 at 1.07.50 AM.png
I am not sure why, but I had to by pass the DK Power tap first, then use the splitter that came with the DMDcolor back to the power tap or I couldn't get power to the DMDcolor.

#48 5 years ago

Looking good!

The guys at color dmd have to offer a kit for this - they will sell 100's. But please include in kit absolutely everything, like the new plexi etc.

#49 5 years ago
Quoted from wdpvideo:

Great video. I would disagree about the display being off centered as that is already in the menu as the SAM option.
Here is a photo of the DMDCOLOR behind the panel.

I am close to modifying the bracket for the DMDColor. The only problem I haven't gotten around this in the photo.

This blue wire need to come off so I can place the bracket, modify the bracket and then place the DMDcolor back onto the bracket and then reconnect the blue wire. I may have to cut the bracket and slide the blue wire out of the slot that I cut to make the modifications to the bracket then put the DMDcolor back onto the mounting bracket. Hopefully I'll have something soon. I should have something to look at by Friday. It's now a problem that I will solve.
Also, I used the DK power tap inside the machine.

I am not sure why, but I had to by pass the DK Power tap first, then use the splitter that came with the DMDcolor back to the power tap or I couldn't get power to the DMDcolor.

BlueCable.jpg 43 KB

DMDColor.jpg 64 KB

Screen Shot 2013-12-16 at 1.07.5... 623 KB

Cool, I never thought about the SAM program might already be centered. Cant you drill the new mounting holes in the frame without taking the LCD panel off?
In your picture is the ColorDMD bottom even with the bottom of the speaker panel?
When you get it figured out post some pictures of the mount. I hope to order my ColorDMD soon.

#50 5 years ago

The problem is the DMDcolor has to come off the bracket, This way I can drill the mounting holes into the bracket. The bracket does not stick out from the top however it does on the bottom a little so I would need to cut that off straight across. The only way is to remove the DMDcolor as not to damage it. I may have to cut a slot into the bracket to slide out the blue cable that goes between the DMD and it's circuit board. I can't do this by myself as someone needs to hold the DMD while I place the cut. I have someone that will be here Tuesday or Wednesday. We will give it a shoot. Once this happens I think we're home free for the brackets modifications. I will then send DMDcolor on what we did and where they fall out on this bracket and they can do what they want with them. This will work I just need a little time.

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