If you could do it every time, it would lose some of its 'magic'. I've still never been to FGY, TSPP or LOTR's final wizard modes....but I'll keep trying!

Don't believe the question was "Can it be finished in the manner you want to?", but was "Can it be finished?"

Personally, I don't give two craps if I get to Valinor the "cheesy" way if I have to or not. Do I time out modes on STTNG? When I'm on ball 3, and there's only one mode left and I'm on Q? Sure. But I've also played like 500 games on it, which is about 75 times the amount of games I've had a chance to play on a well tuned pro.

If points is the objective, Stern did a good job removing the point of timing out modes. Personally, I think they left them in because they knew that getting all the way through all three sets of modes is just nuts, and most people aren't going to get through the first 12 of them. Might as well let people time out the lame "shoot everything" modes and at least TRY.

For what it's worth; I sent the ST design team a suggestion to have all tier one missions = kobayashi stage 1; all tier 2 missions = kobayashi stage 2; and completing three tier 3 missions = enterprise amok. With the final wizard mode completing all tiers. I think this would open up the game on a deeper level as far as the mini wiZard modes are concerned and give more reason for going 3 deep into missions.

Heck, while I'm on topic of suggestions; I also think 3 deep rewards should be ultra ramps, ultra targets, ultra combos, ultra playfield 2X), etc...for a short time period. Then, have shot multipliers be qualified using the warp ramp (i.e 3 consecutive warps lights shot multipliers).

Exactly my point.

We didn't. But that's the way the code was done. It wasn't our choice.

For many of us getting to the final wizard mode is the ultimate goal! Not points.

"If your in a tournament and it's win by any means necessary"? No. That has nothing to do with it!

It has to do with getting to the final wizard mode! What increases your chances of doing that with the current code? Hint: TIME OUT THE LEVEL 1 MODES!

Again, that has NOTHING to do with TOURNAMENT play. Zero. Zilch. Nada! The tournament play argument is a straw man.

Let's compare to LOTR again, shall we? The reason that you don't want to just time out the modes on LOTR to get to Valinor is because you must gain gifts of the elves, and you aren't going to get all of them unless you beat most of the modes. On ST all you have to do is *start* the level 1 modes before moving on. So if your goal is the wizard mode, the best strategy is to let those modes time out. And yes....that's boring.

Wouldn't completing all tier 3 modes be the same as completing all modes? You have to have completed a tier 2 mode to get to its tier 3 equivalent.

so who is the 1 person that has completed all the 18 modes?

It has to be either Elwin or Kerins.

I guess. But I wouldn't feel satisfied doing with timing out. I mean, I want to say I did it for a sense of pride and accomplishment or something, and using some "cheat" would spoil that.

I think you can only time out the first round not sure.The first round wizard mode scoring is based on how you scored in the first round holding ball to time out will hurt your score.

Yes; both the same, however you want to word it. I just like to say complete tier 3 as it's easier than sayin complete all 3 tiers of one mission.

So, essentially, you'd have two wizard modes back to back?

I got 9.9 one time and it kicked another ball into play. I thought the machine misfired because there was no call outs or mode to go with Warp 9.9... just another ball was kicked in play and warp went back to 0. Still satisfying but I was expecting much more.

Any word or even rumor on when the next code update is coming? I'm getting board with the game as it is and I'm not really playing it much these days.

It's not a cheat. Even in tournament play with a 30 second limit, it's perfectly acceptable to take a few shots in a mode to get the timer under 30 seconds, then cradle until the timer runs out. Other players know to expect this. Some games are more prone to this than others. FGY is a great tournament game, but guys will most definitely time out the last mode or two to get to TV wiz mode. It's expected.

On location, anything goes. Timing out modes is nothing compared to doing death saves or bang backs. You do anything you need to do to get the GC score. I don't do death saves or bang backs at home, but I absolutely will time out a mode or two if I'm getting close to the wiz mode.

If you want to get to the wiz mode on ST, you need to think like a player and change from your usual strategy. As I said above, timing out a mode or two is nothing compared to bang backs and death saves. If I was the type to post my scores here, that's where I would draw the line. If I did death saves or bang backs, I wouldn't post it. If I timed out a mode or two, no prob. Like nudging, occasionally timing out a mode is part of the game.

I've played a bunch of different examples of all different flavors and somewhat surprisingly, all the warp ramps play about the same. If yours is noticeably harder, I would try adjusting it.

No way I ever finish all the modes with.... the fun with hitting all the combos makes it too much fun to not just grip and rip.

Clearing them all would require a level of patience that only the pros possess.

have you completed LOTR? TSPP? FGY? X-Men?

No; complete all level 1 missions would be kobayashi. Or go 3 deep in 3 missions to start enterprise amok. The second time you complete 3 missions deep would be the 18th mission so that would light the final wizard mode, not enterprise amok. I then suggested have a stage 2 kobayashi for completing all the tier 2 missions.

Well, sorry, but that's just stupid.

I mean really, that's pretty hilarious when you think about it. "Cheat"? Seriously? THIS IS THE WAY THE CODE IS CURRENTLY WRITTEN. It isn't cheating in any way, shape, or form.

To make the types of arguments that you are making makes you seem like a bit of a ST zealot. These are painfully obvious problems with the way the code was written, but you keep wanting to brush them off with statements like "if you want to be boring like tournament players and only score points" or if you "want to use some cheat" by timing out the modes.

If the code is written in a way that it encourages you to time out level 1 modes to increase your chances of getting to both the main and mini wizard modes (and that's exactly what it does), it's a problem with the code. Its ridiculous to blame the player for playing the game in the most efficient manner to achieve the wizard modes.

Yeah well, I think your opinion of my opinion is stupid.

Sitting there with a ball trapped on a flipper watching a timer countdown is lame. I don't want to beat a game doing that, I don't care it that's the most efficient way to do it. Like I said, if I nailed the first 5 and wanted to play the sixth conservative, trap and take it slow, sure, I'll do that, I'm not that stubborn and principled. But I'd take no satisfaction from timing out every mode to try and get to the wizard mode.

I don't care if anyone else does it. I'm not calling people cheaters. I'm simply saying I have no interest in that, not how I play. And I'm not an awesome player or anything to be clear!

It sure is!

Code's fault. Not mine. And since the code encourages to you time them out, and that's lame, that means the code is lame.

Simple as that.

Your plan is Byzantine........

I love it!

The code doesn't encourage you to time out.....there are later rewards to actually scoring well on tier 1 modes.

But you have to admit that the 33% you timeout are only 10% as challenging as 'completing' the other 66% of the modes. So let's say you can 'time out' 3% of your way to the wizard mode

You can't beat the game by timing out the modes, but I agree if there was a game where you could then 'that' game would be lame.

I've never felt encouraged to time anything out. That would be boring as fuck....and you could apply the "time out" logic to other games that have excellent reputations. Even STTNG - I could start all the modes and just time them out, so I could get to Final Frontier....but I've never done that, cuz I'm playing pinball and I want to PLAY PINBALL when I'm playing pinball lol

I'm repeating myself yet again. If your priority is to get to the wizard mode, the smart thing to do is let those level 1 modes time out. When I play pinball my top priority is almost always to get to the wizard mode. The code encourages you to time the modes out since you don't have to do shit during any of those level 1 modes to progress towards the wizard modes.

You're preaching to someone who admittedly doesn't play in tournaments, doesn't play in leagues and hates EM's. Asking him to time out modes is like asking the pope to jam with Ozzy. Ain't gonna happen.

After 5 beers my brain starts to time out so I just hit lit shots and hope for the best.

Let just get this straight the current code does not encourage you to time out modes, the goal in every pinball game is to achieve the highest score and by timing out mode you will not get the best score overall, no matter, if you make it to the mini-wizard modes by timing out L1...

I agree thou if you only goal is to make it to the mini-wizard modes then yes the code allows you time these out in L1, however, you still need to be successful in 12 more modes in order to get to the final wizard mode. This is no easy feat... This strategy is boring as hell but if this is the way you want to go then fill your boots...

I strive to finish the first level and feel totally satisfied if I do.

I made the mistake of putting ST and ACDC next to each other... I get double frustration points.

Is that what you do when you play STTNG? You could just start a mode, time it out...that'll get you Final Frontier.

I disagree that timing out level 1's helps get you to wizard mode. You still have to play Levels 2 and 3, and you're going to know how to play the game then & risk draining then. Cradling Level 1's all boring-like doesn't guarantee you a wizard mode. Just play the f'ing game lol....or not, you sold it. Whatevs.

I feel your pain....

IMG_0878.JPG

Oh, thank you King of All Pretentious Pindouches....please continue to lord over us, judge us - and tell us what, how, and where to play so that one day we will all play pinball exactly how you do.

^^^ Look - pretty lights!! ^^^

I've never gotten to enterprise amok by timing out level 1 missions. I've been to EA 3 times: twice on factory and once with reducing the timers of level 1 modes. I have the game on factory now, and enjoy that much more than when I had the level 1 missions on short timers for a month. It's just an enjoyable feeling nailing the shots in this game and getting big scores on all the modes. However, I do feel level 1 missions need adjusting. My personal choice to fix it is have a way to finish it and a way to automatically start the tier 2 mission instead of having down time between modes.

Eh...more like 15%.

Agreed. I proposed this in another thread, but so far Stern hasn't called to tell me how brilliant I am:

"How about this for the code update: Keep the level 1 missions as is with just a few tweaks to the call outs and displays. But, hitting Warp 6 (or some other number you set it to) and then getting the ball in the left saucer, gives you the option (just the option) of deeming all level 1 missions complete. You go straight to KM multiball, though you won't get many points for it without earning points on the missions. In this way, beginning players can still have an approachable game, and advanced players can have a means to jump more quickly to the deeper and better developed level 2 and 3 missions."

I made it to Enterprise Amok once. I don't time out any level one missions. The level 2 missions are WAY harder than level ones, and the level 3s are exponentially harder.

All that said... I haven't really touched it much since I got MET.

I love my STLE, but it needs an update to get me interested again.

I would bet the farm that SR and company will be changing the code in 1.5 so level ones can't just be timed out.

I don't play STTNG much. I don't care for it. That's why I've never owned it. Sounds like it has problems with the code too if timing out modes makes it easier to get to the wizard mode. I have no idea how this supports your position.

I disagree that timing out level 1's helps get you to wizard mode.

You can disagree all you want. But it isn't a matter of opinion. It's a fact.

If you actually think about it I'm sure you can see why.

I don't care that you can time out modes, I just wish they had an "end" that was possible to hit before the timer. So a goal besides "just keep shooting until we say you've spent enough time on it".

Like The Shadow for instance, all the modes are timed, and if you can't hit all the shots before the timer runs out you don't get the finish and the points for it, but the mode is still marked as "done" and stays lit. If you do hit them all you get an animation and bonus, it's rewarding.

If you want to time them out to go for Final Battle then fine. But I'd rather try and hit the shots for the points and the fun.

My position is that anyone who holds a ball on a flipper for 45 seconds is boring. Just play the f'ing game. What's Joisey Jack always sayin...the journey is the reward?

Wow, now up to 3 "yeses."

As for timing out modes, you can't completely. You have to at least make the Final Shot or drain trying.

Now up to five. Are people just messing with us?

I agree completely. The level 1 modes need to have more of a goal- something that you can complete/defeat. That would help a lot and it would be extremely easy to implement that change.

I love that the prospect that getting to the end of the game is near impossible, I loved my LOTR's and it took me a year to finally beat the game it was sold and gone a week later as I just couldn't get into it after that, same with most of the B/W greats. I really don't see pinball as a collector anymore for that reason, certain games are good in a collection like IM, Metallica etc. or must have themes but in general once wizard is achieved it becomes tedious to go through it all when you know the outcome. I do see selling and then a few years later picking it up again to re live the glory but it is a game. Anyway JMO. STLE is really a great pin looking forward to one day completing all modes.