Until someone can definitively tell me what the lockdown bar button does, I maintain hope that there is still much more to this pin hidden thus far using a cloaking device.

I agree. JJP demonstrated two things (love it or hate it):
1. There is room in the pin market for more expensive machines.
2. There is technology available to make pinball machines much more feature loaded.

Unfortunately, Stern maybe has demonstrated it has learned lesson #1, but not lesson #2. Either less features for less money or more features for more money.

But not less features for more money.

In any event, we ALL should RESERVE FINAL JUDGEMENT until all is revealed. At least wait until we find out what the lock bar button does!!! There is still LOTS of possibility that there are many features yet to be uncloaked. Though, I admit, at this point, sensors aren't detecting anything.

I think something BIG happens when the Vengeance gets destroyed. I think the saucer drops as shown by that groove in the metal support bracket, which presumably shows the course of descent of the saucer. The saucer front edge might become a new ramp entrance for a channel revealed on the saucer drop. The warp nacelles are hinged, so clearly they move. I THINK I see graphics beneath/behind the Vengeance through the translucent Alpha ramps that would get revealed if Vengeance crashes down onto the playfield.

Definitely maybe. We'll know in 48 hours.

I just HAVE to think there's more here: it doesn't make sense otherwise, for us to be left with a pin that everyone looks at, and says:

"I like it! But I liked it even more when it was called TNG!"

I think that looks and sounds right. But where does the Fire button fit in all of this?

Okay... THAT was funny.

That's the light source that illuminates the side armor on the external side.

Laser projector has gotta be from apron, right?

Yeah, sounds cool. But cool enough to displace TNG? To displace TNG for more money?

Hmmm.

Wouldn't there be safety issues with that setup?

You kid, but seriously, before I plonk this much coin on entertainment, I need to get a better idea of what I am buying.

Why no footage yet, Stern?

Yeah, ST is obviously GOOD. But at these prices and given previous fiascos, it needs to be GREAT.

At this point, it isn't obvious: it MIGHT very well be GREAT, but I need more info, like footage and the laser show, to demonstrate that greatness.

Until then, time to soup up the TNG.

Great shot.

But the TMP Enterprise will ALWAYS be the best looking starship in scifi to me.

I just don't think ANY part of the saucer is designed for direct ball contact given the surface detail.

Clearly the front saucer edge is a separate piece. I think when the saucer crashes down, based on the grooves on the side bracket, the front saucer edge flips up to keep it clear from the scoop(?) just beneath the Vengeance.

From that photo, if you look into the clear bar by the pop bumpers where the 3 flashers are typically located (as in ACDC), you can see a hexagonal cluster of LEDs, that look similar to the ones in the asteroids(?). Could these be part of the "laser" show?

My understanding (and I am in no way an expert) is that upon securing the license, nondisclosure agreements on Paramount's behalf were likely signed by Stern and they were given access to the images of the ST film. But also had to submit whatever they put together for approval as well.

Mmmmmmmmaybe.

More power to those who got LE. But for me, paying that much for one pin means I'm saying no to too many other things...
.... including future pins which might offer all kinds of technical wizardry.

So, the logical choice for me is wait and see on how ST plays. Get a second run premium if the first runs seem plagued with errors or if the code falls into beta purgatory. Keep an eye open on JJP's and Stern's next (LCD based?) pin meanwhile.

And I guess be grateful that the hard core LE purchasers are keeping Stern afloat, rather than be resentful that they are driving prices up. Perhaps they are also keeping the LE model alive for future pin runs so that I can always have the option if I fall into crazy money to buy an LE in the future.

I do applaud Stern's decision to make the differences between Premium and LE only cosmetic and not gameplay.

If someone doesn't eat their own hair, I'll eat a bug!

My concern is that they're NOT showing the one unique feature no one's seen on a pin: the laser light show. It could be that they don't want to blow their wad before the big show at Expo.

But one gets fearful that it could be because it is a little underwhelming.

Downside of not revealing ?> downside of revealing?

The hobby is in a weird, weird, weird, place right now. Unique factors never seen before are makingthe crystal ball cloudy. Like:

-a brand new manufacturer slowly rolling out its first product.
-a paradigm shift from dmd to LCD, with ST initially planned on being LCD, but now might be The Last DMD Pin (from a high volume manufacturer).
-a sluggish economy.
-the Pro, Premium, LE model establishing itself.
-the death of incandescent lighting and different LED strategies.
-prices rising, but possibly features rising, too.
-multiple, multiple, big licenses rumored to be arising over both manufacturers on the horizon.
-USB allowing internet software updates, with a potentially INFINITE software development horizon, and therefore, potentially permanently unfinished software.
-used pin prices stabilizing and the possible prospect of a bubble burst.
-boutique low-volume pin manufacturers rising.

So who knows where the hell this is headed. No sure things. So, if one has a limited disposable income, like me, proceed with caution. Play before you buy. Which might mean you miss out on LE profit OR loss.

I bought into Hobbit as well, despite my generally cautious attitude, primarily because I felt I wasn't just buying a new pin, but helping cultivate a new manufacturer, which I felt, and feel, could pay dividends beyond an individual pin, in provoking both Stern and JJP to aim higher.

Before I bought Hobbit, I felt comfortable with the design philosophy and stability of JJP, as well as my ability to withstand JJPs growing pains for the sake of raising the competition level and hence quality level for the hobby. And I like Tolkien. So I want my pin from them, too.

But to bring it back to ST, I also fricking LOVE Trek. That's why this partial reveal thing is so maddening. I want to buy, but I' m not sure if it is a step forward, backwards, or treading water. It isn't obvious from what's been released thus far.

The uncertainty of The Hobbit is offset by the potential payoff in supporting a new manufacturer that has already demonstrated its ability to generate at least SOME pressure on Stern to innovate, ie LEDs, the rumored transition to LCD, and MAYBE playfield lasers (jury still out until we see it!).

Capn America Avengers?
Wolverine XMen?

I'm not SURE about that, but it feels like a lot of the buzz is down on those.

As opposed to when a TronLE shows up for sale, and EVERYONE comments in the thread. BiB ACDC falls into this, too (as an example of an LE that's holding value).

Fair enough.

No, "arrogancy" isn't a word I would use in describing a company - agreed. BOTH companies should be about making money (preferably over the long term).

My point is just, as a consumer, though I'm willing to give ONE company substantial money for an unseen product but not the OTHER, it is because of my perceived value in encouraging a NEW company. Furthermore, the money put towards Hobbit, at this point, is not committed and refundable fully at any time, as I am told.

But the LE thing feels a bit like pressured sales tactic 101: hurry, buy now before they're all gone, without kicking the tires (even though actual gameplay footage SHOULD be readily available at this point). It rubs me the wrong way. But that shouldn't bother Stern as long as it doesn't hurt their long term bottom line, I guess.

A decent counterargument. Not far off from the old, "there's no such thing as bad publicity." Heck, look how this very thread has exploded with very little Stern footage.

I think this works in Stern's favor if the undemonstrated features, the laser show specifically, knock everyone's socks off at Expo in Chicago.

It blows up in their faces if socks are not knocked off.

This.

Right on.

You're of course right: that's true regarding purchasers of ANY expensive impulse buy, wherein the purchasers are CLEARLY deciding with their hearts instead of heads.

But for the REST of us, those who resist the impulse (and, for me, the impulse was/is so very very strong), and want to purchase with their heads over their hearts, there just isn't enough info out there to get them to pull the trigger.

Impressive laser footage, or radically different playfield, or extensive gameplay footage, or innovation vis a vis an LCD, or new sound system, or much more conventional hardware, MIGHT have been enough to push a lot of us to make the sale.

But if the game is genuinely HOT, once all is revealed, then everything will work out in the end. Really, even at this point, Stern doesn't NEED to convince anyone of anything.

So, the lack of info is either a sign of sheer panic or supreme confidence on the part of Stern.

Sigh.

A refundable lottery ticket, at this point.

Yes, it is ultimately the accountants who will decide the success/failure of Stern's pricing model...
... unless people feel shorted by being 'forced' to commit to an early purchase then experience buyer's remorse if the game isn't fun enough ( unlikely with the pedigree... But who knows?). Then the NEXT time, they might not take the bait, even if THIS time, by dollars and cents, Stern makes money.

So I'm saying I agree with you. Just as long as Stern is cautious not to hurt long term sales for short term. And I dont have enough info to offer adequate opinion on that yet.

Agreeing with both of you.

SO want an awesome SR Star Trek pin experience, especially at the LE level, but just can't justify the expense without seeing and playing. Jealous of/happy for those who can afford to do so, however.

Keep HOPING I learn enough about this pin to make me pull the trigger so I can have a shot at an LE, but info isn't available yet.

But worst case scenario that I end up with a Premium kick butt SR ST because LEs are sold out... That's okay. I can live with that! . Not interested in flipping an LE if I am fortunate enough to get one should it play well, so holding value, while nice, isn't essential.

I just need more info on an 8k purchase.

Boy, it sure feels like they have something hidden up their sleeves, doesn't it?

It could be wishful thinking just because I like SR and ST so much, but here's hoping!

I'm not disagreeing with the thrust of your post, but I would consider MM to have TWO featured toys (castle, trolls).

Debbie Downer!!

I agree that this seems like the best explanation I've heard so far. I also wouldn't be surprised if there is a conventional laser behind the forward saucer piece that obviously comes off the main body of the saucer.

If we're dealing with semantics here, what should I expect in a "Warp core resonator shaker motor"?

I'm thinking it will be very very very similar to a shaker motor.

Whoever said they're doubling down, i agree.

Either very smart or very crazy. Ask again Monday.

I HOPE very smart because that would mean they're being cocky because it is that damned good.

As a SR, ST, pinball fan, that's what I want.

I think by definition, if what they see (those guys who have purchased the LE based on what little is known despite the price) makes it worthwhile for them, and they're not doing anything illegal or unethical to obtain the funds, then it's the right choice.

It's just torture for many others of us for whom we WANT it to be the right choice...
... but we need a little more info. We're looking for an excuse to LOVE this pin, and it ain't there just yet.

But for those who went ahead and bought the LE because based on what they've seen, it's worth the "risk" of (GASP) buying a pin that might devalue in a few years because they love the designer and theme, then more power to them. It does mean that it is ever so slightly more likely that I will have to "settle" for a Premium if the Big Reveal by Stern shows something I want, but I can live with that. It's worth it to me to lose the chance at an LE for ca $1400 more to get more info.

Sad but true. Hopeful that increased competition changes this.

But right now, basically truth.

I thought he was qualifying his statement with "modern" pins.

In any event, I don't think the laws of physics limits nonSuperpins to only two effective designs.

Avengers and CSI struggled not because of poor layout, but of poor quality control and support.

I think it is merely FAMILIARITY with those two designs which results in less need for prolonged testing to correct unanticipated consequences of a new layout, and hence less design expense.