Wow, yours looks so much better...yeah my first thought when I saw the playfield was "Sega rainbow sherbet" style like Lost World. Guessing it looks better in person, though - Stern's always look better with their natural lighting vs. first release pics. I thought AC/DC looked like ass when the pics came out, but I'm absolutely fine with how it looks when I play it.

What else can be said that hasn't already. My stream of consciousness while looking at the video/pics: I'm sure it will be a great player, cuz it's Steve Ritchie and looks to be a "best of" STTNG/Spidey design...but with the high price, expectations are higher. The Asteroids on the LE/Prem seem to be fancy spotlights. Doesn't seem like that valuable of an extra feature. I'm guessing most of the differences between the LE/Prem and Pro will be subtle...stuff we're not seeing that well here but will affect gameplay - like the dual gates on Avengers and the various parts that go along with the crossover ramp.

I wonder what the fire button does...is there a lock/kickback under the small Enterprise? That would just shoot the ball back down the ramp...so probably not. Maybe you can use it to fire the VUK? Most likely it's firing the ball out of the big center ship - but why would you want to fire a ball at yourself? Whatever it does, it's not as obvious as AC/DC's cannon.

They brought in Greg Freres to do the art, but the cabinet art packages seem cobbled from the typical product style guide imagery instead of anything custom. After Metallica, this feels like we're going back in time to Avengers-land. Playfield has ZERO ships or characters - maybe that's for the best if it was just gonna be photo-cobbled...the LE has no characters on the backglass which really seems to be pandering to the "We hate actors" crowd - but in doing that, the game is lacking personality IMO.

At the end of the day, gameplay, rules, and sound design will make or break it -which is really how it should be. I already have nice playing cool Steve Ritchie games (including STTNG), though...what experience will this game offer for the price that my other games don't provide? I suppose I'll find out when I play one...which means I'm not going to pre-order blindly. Besides, I have other (unfinished cough cough) Stern's to play and enjoy.

...and has a color DMD lol

Here's the problem with it being even remotely similar to STTNG: You can get a nice STTNG with Color DMD for $5k-ish or less. Many were made so it's not rare. So if you were a person who wanted a Star Trek game, it's inevitable that you'd compare.

I've already GOT a ST game...so - in order to get excited about this one it would at least have to be different and offer some new tech or toy or something that really knocked my socks off. Not seeing it...but I have to keep reminding myself I was totally underwhelmed by the initial AC/DC pics & info. Steve told me "YOU WILL OWN THIS GAME" lol...and he was right.

It's not bad, but we're expected to purchase these games for a lot of $$$. If it's similar to games I already have, what's my incentive? If I don't have those games, what's my incentive to buy this over similar cheaper games?

The Premium is totally necessary. If I do end up liking this game and want the "complete experience", I will have that option without having to pre-order an LE. Same thing a lot of us did on AC/DC. I didn't buy AC/DC LE right away for one reason or another - but then months later decided I wanted the game. I was able to get a Premium for ~$6k instead of having to pay a scalper for an LE.

The extra features don't seem to be massive, but are enough that I know I'd want the Premium if I decide to buy. The VUK shot gives you an extra combo possibility...It looks to shoot the ball to middle of the Warp Ramp so that it flies around to the right orbit where you can then combo it w/ the upper flipper to the Warp Ramp. The big middle ship is going to have some movement/features not on the Pro. The Pro won't have the small Enterprise...not sure if it does anything besides decoration...guess we'll find out soon.

.....or it just bobbles like the ship on AFM.

Hmmm I think you're right...I don't think it'll come down to playfield level but I think it will fall forward when destroyed. If it came down to the playfield, what would be the point? To bash an already destroyed ship? Hmmm. I think the Pro version will be AFM bobble, though.

No way they'll do all...most likely the Star Fleet "arrow" inserts

No they didn't. They make Limited games to sell out fast to collector types. Didn't get one? There's a Premium. Money is made, players get a game.

Metallica demand was nutballs for these reasons:
-AC/DC BIB (300 units) price went nuts, so there was the "fear" of get it now or pay more later for a hot music title.
-Excellent original art like nothing ever seen on a Stern game.
-Cool looking all original toys.
-Never been a Metallica pin (non pinball metal heads wanted it).
-Lyman on rules, riding the wave of AC/DC love.

Star Trek on the other hand
-If 750 units is true - that softens the "get it before it's gone" factor.
-Price hike also softens demand if the perceived value isn't there.
-Already 3 other ST games, so you're not gonna get hardcore Trekkies ordering this the way Metallica fans were...pin-heads and non-hobbyists alike LOVE STTNG.
-Stock style guide art.
-Unknown rules ...sound like they're going for lots of modes & depth - but no one's been able to pull that type of coding off except Keith Johnson. Most post-Keith "deep mode" style games have been slogs (TF, TAV) or just clusterf*ck messes (X-Men).

Building on the previous point, there's also the buyer psychology concerning pre-orders & code. Metallica isn't done yet...that puts current Met owners on hold from plunking down on another game. Same exact thing happened with Avengers. X-Men code was in a state of F*CKED and TF code was in an arguably shaky place.

All that being said - this game will NO DOUBT be fun to shoot. The rules could end up being incredible. The LE's could eventually go up in value. I just don't see there being the mad pre-order rush that Metallica had for the reasons stated....and there's nothing wrong with that. Let's let the game speak for itself and players make up their mind once we've played it.

-I don't find anything about the LE art or bling to be so stellar that I feel the need to pre-order
-If I end up liking the game, I think LEs will be available at a normal price. If not, I'm fine with Premium.
-I'm a Metallica owner waiting for the code to be finished. I trust Lyman.
-I'm a former TFLE and XMenLE owner who waited A LONG TIME for code to be finished. I don't trust Non-Lymans.
-Almost all of the Stern LEs have had annoying physical problems due to lack of real world testing. I don't want to be a guinea pig/beta tester again. My best recent Stern purchase was AC/DC Premium - after the kinks were worked out & code was updated.

Sometimes you just get a gut feeling....but hey, sometimes that gut feeling is wrong. I'll get to play one soon enough. If it blows me away - Premium here I come. No regrets.

Another thing.
That Star Trek writing is a mock up - not dots.
Still predicting one or two LCD's - it's the only thing that makes sense re price rise.

denial.jpg

Soooo...you want a Premium? lol

Mirrored backlass, snazzy rails, shaker.

Extra money = new hires, R&D, etc. I don't think we're gonna see it in the game itself. Also, they saw 500 MetLE sell out & flipped for profit within hours....so why not make more and raise the price? I don't think they factored in the factors I posted about earlier...but I think the Met situation is why we're seeing this.

It will be squished between your other games in a dark room. Problem solved.

I really hate when people bring things like this up ....as if we haven't paid enough already!? $6k+ for GAMES...it's not too much to ask for the GAME part of the $6k+ game to be completed lol

Actually, I think it sounds potentially cool...anything that interacts with the playfield trumps the score display IMO. Yes, DMD should have been gone already - especially with a license that has plenty of HD color footage to use...but I'm really interested in seeing what this starfield projector is all about. Stands to be one of the coolest and unique light shows ever.

Also, I guess I was wrong about the color changing insert LEDs...the feature sheet says the Prem/LE has 60 Tri-color LEDs under inserts vs. 7 on the Pro. Very cool. Still wanna play it first and see where code is. The more multi color LED FX possibilities there are, the longer coding them is gonna take. So far most of Metallica's multi-color inserts only do red & white...one does red/purple/pink.

Stop...just....stop. It's a red DMD.

While I'd rather see something more interesting than Photoshop poster head collage, Star Trek IS about the characters - and it's nice to see them on the Prem translite...it also evokes STTNG's translite somewhat. Red wouldn't have been my first choice for trim - but it does fit with the art package's color scheme - cabinet art colors are pretty just red/blue/black/white....lots of red lasers all over.

Well - that's ALL versions...nothing's gonna come close to Metallica art!

LOL....look - they're shooting for the stars here (har har) and I hope it works out. 6 modes & 18 mini-modes...multiballs, mini-wizard, wizard....every LED with color change ability.....that's a LOT of stuff. Fingers crossed.

The Pro guys will say no kickback makes the game faster

Yeah, I imagine that "mini modes" will be things like Hurry-Ups, Fast Scoring....perhaps objective completions like getting a few Super Jackpots, etc. The main modes will be traditional (timed?) missions like STTNG...some could be Multiballs. If I bite, I'm going Premium....unlesssssss there are still lots of LE's sitting with distribs and the price drops lol

PARTY AT ROB'S!!!!!!!!!

...and Tron LE proved: WE LIKEY LIGHTS!!!!

I only have 2 and get no complaints!

Stern hasn't been doing dot rips lately...even for movie stuff like Avengers. I've heard this will be custom....but I wouldn't be surprised if there's some movie mixed in. The great thing about space movie footage - black backgrounds...so, if they ripped clips of the ship flying around, those would look sweet on DMD.
Word is - voice clip pulls from the movies, so you'll have real actor voices!

Maybe they're in the asteroids? That would make sense. At first I thought they were just housings for the Vengeance flashers...but why not just use spotlights? This may be the answer...lasers in the asteroids!

Oh yeah, that would make sense too!

LOL...no. Pro has the weakest translite IMO, but to each their own. Even if I liked the Pro translite the best I wouldn't forsake the Premium features for it.

...but there's the Premium. Stern Premium/LE is just like Jack's Standard/LE. Woz owners don't "literally" get nothing more...they get shaker, green trim, invisiglass, topper, apron - just like Stern Prem vs. LE. If you get a STLE you get different glass & decals, shaker, blue lit up rails, different lit up speaker panel. In both cases, playfield & game features are exactly the same.

She died...but it's prob her official replacement for the franchise.

Nah, my guess - they wanted clarity vs. clutter...and if the licensor was only allowing them to use product style-guide stuff for the playfield, the route they went was better than making it look like another Avengers cut-n-paste.

Of course if I had to nitpick I'd change a few details and aesthetics on the playfield art, but overall I get what they were going for: Battle in space. You have the two ships w/ asteroids floating over space! The minimal starmaps & tech art make it a bit Trekkish....and the inserts and info are all very clear.

The characters/personality will come from the DMD & sound.

If you buy from a "good" distributor, then ...yes...the Premium has a good price (IMO)

Spock and Uhura are on the front

Stones LE didn't
TF LE didn't (at least not for a year or so)

I hope one of the modes involves trying to get Kirk laid with as many alien babes as he can before the time runs out.

I was just thinking about how there are possibilities for some REALLY cool lighting FX if they embrace the color changing insert LEDs in an artistic way. For instance, how cool would it look if when you destroy the Vengeance & the inserts make a ripple explosion effect (yellow and orange maybe) that emanates from the ship outward.

There's the ladder of inserts that represent weapons/power. That would be cool if when those inserts are all charged, they pulse (white/blue or white/red) & the fire button also pulses the same color to clue the player that the FIRE button is used for that particular playfield feature. AC/DC's fire button is a color-changer, so I imagine ST's will as well.

It's a little different than the norm playfield art concept, but no characters/ships on the playfield doesn't mean it's not going to immerse you in the theme. First of all - Star Trek - the setting is SPACE. Well, the playfield is...SPACE. It's got the two ships engaged in battle floating over the spacey playfield. As you play, it's gonna be playing Star Treky music, have Star Trek missions with characters talking, lasers zapping, computers bleeping, etc. There's no doubt it's going to thematically feel like Star Trek when you're playing it.

So buy a toy ship and attach it

I think the soundtrack will be good. David Thiel is on the job, and he's done spectacular work when using movie score accompanied by his own tracks. It gives him a springboard and he matches the tone exactly. Tron & Ironman are a good example of this. Much of the IM music is movie score, but Whiplash MB & War Machine MB (and prob some other tracks) are Thiel originals. Tron has a few Daft Punk tracks but lots of Thiel originals that fit perfectly.

I'm betting not. Bashing a downed ship doesn't make a lot of sense. I'm sure that "cut out" is just something to do with how it's mounted/assembled.

You can get a lot of mileage out of "one song" from a movie score....he could probably get 4 or 5 good loops out of it that work in various parts of the game. Tron uses 3 Daft Punk songs but they're broken up and looped.

I think the Fire Button is essentially there for functions that would normally be on games with gun handles. Like STTNG, you can use the fire button to pick a mission. Maybe like Monster Bash you can use the button for a "smart bomb"....it's just on the lockbar because this game has a plunger. I think that's more intuitive for players if that button is flashing right in front of them. Whenever people come over, they never know to grab the gun handle for anything on STTNG or know that MB has "smart bombs". I imagine you'll use the button to use your powered up weapons in in this game, represented by the power insert "ladder" in the middle. Maybe you'll need that to finish modes, destroy the Vengeance's sheilds before hitting it with the final shot for Super Jackpot...who knows, lots of cool possibilities for sure.

Kirk's gotta pee after banging all those space chicks! Flush for Super Jackpot!

Yes, they call that a Space Bidet!

It loops it around to the right orbit... it goes to the upper flipper where you can loop it as many times as you can.

Not at all. It's a franchise pin, which means it's relevant for the duration of the franchise, past and present. POTC is first 2 movies. Iron Man is first 2 movies. Batman is first 2 movies (sort of lol). Avatar is 1 movie. Avengers is 1 movie. Doesn't matter if it contains all elements of the entire series.

Mmmmm...I dunno if it's a fair comparison. Avengers had a lot of reasons why people didn't want to bite on the LE, and the Premium hadn't even been shown yet. All versions of ST were shown in the announcement. I have a feeling plenty of people are gonna bite on the ST Prem, due to the reasonable price...and if word of mouth is good, the LE sales will be healthy/steady. I'm ready to jump on a ST Prem if some vids come out and it looks sweet. Actually - maybe that's part of the reason for price hike on LE...price was so close on Avengers LE and Prem, once the Prem came out - if anyone was interest in the game...why not just get an LE? With this massive price difference, there's a valid reason for people to buy the Premium when the LE's are still available.

Dr. Who has the Tardis...I dunno, that's kind of a toy hehe.
Family Guy also has the beer can
STTNG has cannons!

MM has castle & trolls
POTC has the tortuga spinner & heart chest
CV has the Ringmaster, juggler, menagerie ball
IM has Monger & War machine kickback (does that count?)
Avatar has AMP suit and Link lock (kind of a toy...Link pod closes on the LE...it's interactive either way)

It's a Whitestar game vs. a SAM game...both from Stern, but very different feel, play and sound. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE TSPP and LOTR (both Whitestar games), but SAM games just feel better. Flippers & slings are stronger. Audio is crisp and clear voices with "real" music and not low quality midi style.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. I've had 2 TSPP's and they've both felt solid and fine. I think it's an excellent sound package, just suffers from Whitestar's quality. It's about the level of a pre-DCS WPC game...kinda like Addams...but with slightly clearer voices and WAY more samples. Lots of good bass, too. What it lacks in quality, it makes up for in good (at least Simpsons appropriate) musical compositions from Chris Granner. I can come up with a TON of worse DE & Sega sound packages...especially Sega. Those are also Whitestar but most of the compositions and "instruments" are pretty terrible. As far as Stern Whitestar DMDs go - T3 is the worst IMO. Just poor music compositions that aren't helped any by Whitestar.

Avatar's super fun despite being a cheap-era Stern game. Tron and IM are from that same 'run'...they all worked despite the cutbacks.

Steve Ritchie's games aren't generally chock full of toys. Spider-Man kind of doesn't have any real toys....Sandman & Doc Ock are kind of just ball blockers that move up and down. Venom and Goblin are just decoration, really....but it wins due to great design, play, and rules. So, if the Vengeance ship has lots of movement 'animation', acts as a ball lock, fires balls back at you, does something cool rules-wise with it's drop target and magnet - it would probably be one of Steve's most versatile toys in terms of parts & mechanics. Couple that with (hopefully) great rules, a potential amazing light show, and a great shooting design...it does have all the elements of a winning game.

The combinations of shots and possibilities for mode rules are endless....it's just up to the programmer. Look at LOTR's playfield. Pretty standard layout...but man, the code gives it an insane amount of variety. There could be "shoot the lit shots" rules, combo rules, shoot-this-shot-to-light-that-shot rules...anything! One thing that could be super interesting is the use of the color changing Star Fleet inserts, esp cuz the Pro has them, too. They could even have "Q*Bert" type rules to modes...shooting the shots to get all the inserts the same color.

CraZ - your reaction reminds me of my own to AC/DC. It was one of my dream themes, and when I saw the initial pics I was like WTF?!?!?! When I first played it, I was slightly underwhelmed as well...but then after a few code updates - gamechanger. AC/DC may look like a typical rehash fan layout....but it's like no other game I've played. A "been there done that" layout isn't a bad thing at all if it plays great & coupled with great code, sound & lights. Believe me if you play this game and you just keep wanting to hit start over and over again - you'll get over your initial impression.

Tron LE's another one....when I first saw it, I actually cancelled my pre-order...INSANE in retrospect. Now that I have it, it's pure magic...it's never leaving my collection.

LOL....and hey, David Thiel (ST's composer/sound designer) programmed the sound for Q*Bert...that would be cool of there was some subtle connection to his classic game hehe

The Prem/LE has an open front cuz the ship's mech allows it to fall forward when it crashes. The Pro doesn't have that mech, so it just has a plastic screwed into the front. It's not a door.

I don't think they literally shoot out of the Vengeance...Sterns playfields dimple enough! I'm guessing the lane under the ship feeds to a Megatron-ish ball lock/VUK. That's where the balls will lock/shoot. I imagine that mech will be the same on the Pro (on or below playfield) and its the ship's movement mechs that will differ between the versions.

No, not in the box. The box has the ship movement stuff. Since the ship doesn't move as much, there's just a flat plastic on the front of it on the Pro. I think the ball lock/VUK is UNDER the playfield. Ball goes thru that center lane, locks in a VUK underneath.

No, that was never a question left hanging. It's been known for months that it was a DMD. The pictures show a DMD. It's a DMD lol