This was going to be my first NIB, but now I am unsure. I already own a STTNG, and this looks so similar. Plus, the price increase...

But he has already made STTNG. The question for me is whether this is sufficiently different (and better) to justify buying it. I am skeptical at this point.

I just cancelled my LE order--which included prepayment, by the way, so I had every intention of buying the ST. It is just too similar a layout to my STTNG to justify the cost. Maybe after I actually play it someday, I'll decide to get a pro (but probably not).

Looks like I'll be buying a WOZ instead. Score one for Jack.

If you already own those games, it is a decisive factor, at least for me.

I'm now in for a WOZ. Just seems like so much more machine for the money. Actually, for less money.

Actually, I have played it several times. Also, we have a lot of friends and coworkers over for pinball events, and I think WOZ will be a hit with them. I try to have a very diverse collection partly for that reason, and I now feel confident that WOZ will add more that's new to the mix than ST would. I didn't want that to be the case, but it is what it is.

HS & HS2
STTNG & STTNG2

I get the fact that Stern has not provided a video or more detailed description prior to previous releases. Still, had they done so in this case, it might very well have kept me in the game. I don't have $8k to gamble. If I felt more confident I knew what I was getting (and liked it, of course), I would have stayed in. I think it's a crummy way to market a high-dollar product.

I appreciate the excitement that many have for the game (I preordered last spring, too), and I hope those who have gone ahead with their order are delighted with the pin. Indeed, I might end up buying one myself eventually, but only after I know a good deal more about it.

I do think the comparison with WOZ and The Hobbit, while understandable, is inaccurate. If anything, JJP was criticized for revealing too much too soon about WOZ, and they have published playfield design information a year and a half (at least) ahead of The Hobbit. Anyone who ordered WOZ has had numerous opportunities to see the game in person or at least to watch videos months in advance of the shipment of their pin. I expect the same will be true for The Hobbit. Moreover, the prepayment is fully refundable up to the moment when shipment occurs.

I prepaid for the ST-LE and was told that I would have three days to make a final decision once the reveal took place. When it came, too little information was provided to judge the value of the game. There was no video, and certainly no opportunity for seeing it in person. Based on that, I was required to make what I understood to be an irrevocable commitment.

I would have left my money with the distributor had I (1) been given sufficient opportunity to learn about the pin in advance, and (2) been told that my payment could be refunded fully at any time prior to shipment.

Are any distributors offering refunds up to the time of shipment? If so, hats off to them. That policy demonstrates confidence in their product.

There is a difference. As I pointed out earlier, JJP has been far more forthcoming with advance information, including showing prototype pins at numerous times many months in advance. Anyone who wants to has abundant opportunity to get to know the pin before making a final commitment. Also, the pre-payment is fully refundable up to the time of shipment. In this case, however, we are required to make a decision based on minimal information, and that decision appears to be irrevocable. (I would be pleased if distributors offered full refunds prior to shipment, but I have yet to hear of that occurring. Kudos to distributors who do.) So, yes, significantly greater risk is assumed by the ST buyer.

EDIT: Your comment above and my comment here appeared at the same moment. I wouldn't have repeated myself had I seen what you wrote.

We'll just have to disagree politely on this point. I don't like having to plunk down thousands of dollars based on a few pictures. I think that is asking too much of consumers. Of course, the gamble might well pay off. I don't dispute that. I am also a Steve Ritchie fan and hope the pin is all it's cracked up to be. Still, I think Stern owes its customers more information on the front end, especially if the decision to buy an LE--necessarily made in haste--is final. I don't think this is a reasonable way of doing business, but others are welcome to disagree. Obviously, it seems to be working for Stern, so I don't expect them to change.

It is true that I had not differentiated the practices of Stern and its the distributors. Nevertheless, this same practice is not followed by JJP, whose distributors are required to refund pre-payments when asked.

The bottom line is that I wish Stern had provided a more adequate account of the LE at the time of the announcement, especially in light of its recent experience. I would like to be able to make an informed decision, which--whether by design or happenstance, I cannot say--is impossible under the circumstances. I am grateful that I might have that opportunity with the premium, although I greatly prefer the look of the LE.

Oh, well. It's only pinball. Life goes on.

Do you mean they would have withheld $1000 you paid or simply that you would no longer be able to buy for the discounted price? I assume the latter, but I could be wrong.

Congratulations. I hope you enjoy both games.

Yes, I can't see why that wouldn't be anyone's preference. I am not trying to defend pre-ordering per se. If I have to pre-order, however, I would like to be able to get my money refunded if I change my mind, and I would like to have the opportunity at least to see a video of gameplay while I still have the chance for that refund. That's all.

Right. I noted above that I was grateful for the option of buying the premium later. I did want and would still prefer an LE (based especially on looks; I am not wild about the appearance of the premium), but I can't see buying one on the basis of so little information. To those who can, more power to you.

I have spent way too much time on these ST forums this week, and I need to bow out, but that time investment is an indication of the level of interest I had in the ST since last spring. As both a Star Trek and a Steve Ritchie fan, I am "low hanging fruit" and could easily have been sold on the LE. I have gone back and forth on it all week, in fact. I just wish Stern and its distributors had made the decision a little easier with a bit more information and a bit more accommodating terms.

Again, I hope all those who purchase the LE love it, and I hope Stern continues to sell everything it can produce. Pinball needs to stay on its present roll if it is to survive.

We have had numerous opportunities to see and play WOZ. No one made a commitment they could not get out of once they saw the machine, and JJP went out of their way to make information available. To me, there is a great deal of difference between a refundable and a non refundable purchase costing thousands of dollars. I cannot see how the situations are identical. I did pre-pay for ST but was given only a small window within which I could get a refund.

I think Stern could have done a much better job introducing ST. What they provided was enough for others. That's fine. Let's hope everyone remains happy with the choice they made.

P.S. I have never spent this much time caught up in a Pinside debate, and I cannot afford to devote any more time to it. Permit me please to make peace and wish you all well. I wouldn't be surprised if I join you someday as a Stern Star Trek owner. Also, let me say that I very much like my own Stern distributor, expect to buy from him in the future, and don't regard him as the particular source of my present concerns. Best regards to all.

A humble and sincere request: If and when someone has new and significant information about ST, would you please post it in a new thread? Thanks.

That's a good idea. I like to tweak sound and would appreciate that ability here.

Yup. I for one am really sick of the us vs. them mentality that dominates so many threads. I am grateful for both companies, own pins from both and look forward to owning more. Both companies have their strengths and weaknesses, things about them I appreciate and things I wish they'd change. I guess it's just human nature to form clans and want to go to battle. Sigh...

Each day I start to question all over again whether to buy. Each day I look for more information that might lead me to do so. Not today. Not with that video.

Actually, I bought STLE NIB and ultimately sold it at a considerable loss. Not everyone is enamored of STLE.

Nice detective work. Yes, I went back and forth and ended up buying it only to sell it a bit later. Oh, well. That's how it goes sometimes. It's hard to know what will have staying power until you've lived with it for a while. I understand why some people love ST, but it just wasn't for me--at least not for the long term with the amount of cash I had tied up in it. As I always say, it's a good thing that tastes vary so much in pinball. It results in a lot more variety and choice.

No doubt I would have been better off financially had I waited, but sometimes you just need to take your losses and move on. The only point I was trying to make is that tastes vary. I expected to, wanted to love STLE and didn't, though many do. The same range of opinions will exist in varying degrees for any new pin, whether GOT or TH.