(Topic ID: 71415)

Stern ST - Boring to watch? (Strategy talk now!)


By FrederikFrost

6 years ago



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  • 116 posts
  • 37 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by EricR
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#101 6 years ago

Title updated to reflect this is now a strategy talking thread :p

#102 6 years ago
Quoted from SolarRide:

Proposed v1.3 Stern Star Trek Strategy:

2. play the level IIs of the modes you played in step 1 (so stay away from the mode you haven't played at all yet because you don't want to start Kobiyashi Maru prematurely) in the following way:
completely finish level II for a couple of the modes and then for the others finish most of the shots until you are down to two or three shots (status report tells you how many shots are left) and then TIME OUT these modes so it ends with two or three shots left (take note of which shots are left). Just make sure the last two shots left over for the deliberate time-out are the shot doublers for the modes you plan to finish at level III and not the timed out mode. The reason for this is that these last couple of shots are absolutely massive in points (the last two shots of NERO for example were worth 5 or 6M points each undoubled iirc) and you want to shoot them with both the shot doubler (available for completing a level III mode) and combo doubler for 4x points.
3. Ok, taking note of which shots are left over for the deliberately timed-out level II modes, proceed to complete level III for the modes corresponding to those shots using the level II modes you did finish so that the 2x shot doubler is available for those shots of the timed-out unfinished level II modes.
4. Now start the level II modes you deliberately timed out and for each, hit an unlit shot to lite the combo doubler for one of the lit shots. Hit the combo hurry-up plus the 2x shot double for 4x MASSIVE POINTS (remember these are the last two shots of the level II mode so they are huge to begin with).
Just doing this should get you 30 or 40 M points for the mode, so doing this for three modes gives 120M.
.

This would be fine except you can't time out the level 2 modes, only the level one modes as I understand it. Correct?

#103 6 years ago
Quoted from LOTR_breath:

This would be fine except you can't time out the level 2 modes, only the level one modes as I understand it. Correct?

I believe you can time out any of the three levels, but level 1 is the only one that will finish when timed out no matter what. Have to make the shots in time on levels 2 and 3. If you don't finish in time on level 2, you pick up where you left off when you restart. On level 3 modes, you restart at the beginning every time if you don't finish all the shots in time.

Had my best game today using a mostly finish level twos and move on strategy. It wasn't much better than my previous high score, which was done using a very different strategy. I think SR is right about the programmers playing it safe. A little too safe IMO. We'll see where they go from here.

#104 6 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

I believe you can time out any of the three levels, but level 1 is the only one that will finish when timed out no matter what. Have to make the shots in time on levels 2 and 3. If you don't finish in time on level 2, you pick up where you left off when you restart. On level 3 modes, you restart at the beginning every time if you don't finish all the shots in time.
Had my best game today using a mostly finish level twos and move on strategy. It wasn't much better than my previous high score, which was done using a very different strategy. I think SR is right about the programmers playing it safe. A little too safe IMO. We'll see where they go from here.

No you can't time out some of the level 2 & 3 mode. There are a couple that have some major glitches that show up at times that makes it almost impossible to finish. I'm sure these will be addressed in the next update.

#105 6 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

There are a couple that have some major glitches that show up at times that makes it almost impossible to finish. I'm sure these will be addressed in the next update.

In version 1.3? I saw those in 1.2, but haven't gotten stuck in 1.3 yet. Mission start and/or away team lights every time.

1.2 blew chunks compared to 1.3. Seriously.

#106 6 years ago

Hes talking about timing out a bunch of level 2 modes with the last 2-3 shots left whcih is a very interesting idea as the final shots can result in collecting multiple millions per shot, so if you have 2 or 3 modes at level 2, time out the modes to exit them, get a shot doubler from a level 3 completion (again either ramp is my recommendation due to ease of the shot) then restart the modes you have 2-3 shots left, you can hopefully collect on the doubled shots.

The problem I see with this is it is kindof a crap shoot as to exactly which shots will be lit to complete the modes at level 2. It's not like level 1 where everything lights to finish (i dont think) - it will be one or a few specific shots which may or may not be doubled.

#107 6 years ago
Quoted from FrederikFrost:

Title updated to reflect this is now a strategy talking thread :p

Hahaha well if its boring to watch, it's clearly not boring to discuss strategy. Sorry for the hijack

#108 6 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

No you can't time out some of the level 2 & 3 mode. There are a couple that have some major glitches that show up at times that makes it almost impossible to finish. I'm sure these will be addressed in the next update.

It looked like Bowen completed modes even with the 300000 shots glitch. Is it hit and miss on whether that number is real or not?

#109 6 years ago

You are correct, you cannot finish the level 2 modes by timing them out. However, I am not talking about timing out the level 2 modes to finish them in my previous post. I am talking about letting the timer run out when you only have two or three shots left leaving the level 2 modes purposely unfinished. Then completing level 3 modes which are shot doublers for those unfinished shots in the purposely-unfinished modes, re-entering those purposely-unfinished level 2 modes with the shot doublers in place, and cashing in the remaining high-value shots with the shot doublers in conjunction with the combo doubling for very large point values (4x times a high-value shot).

In regards to SLC's concern of having the unfinished shots in a given mode being the same as that mode's shot doubler, you would shoot the early shots of that mode purposely at that mode's shot doubler to eliminate them so that the remaining high-value shots would be on a different mode's shot doubler.

For example, in Nero, you would hit the spinner shot whenever it is flashing during the initial, low-value shots of the mode, and never hit the right ramp shot (unless it totally bottle-necks shot-progression of the mode) since it is the easy-to-get Save the Trenterprise right ramp doubler (so you would focus on completely finishing Save the Trenterprise III after purposely timing out the level II Nero and then re-enter L2 Nero with the right ramp shot doubler).

With this sort of focus, it is very likely you will have high-value shot/shot doubler combinations. Through trial and error the easiest combinations will be found.

And then v1.35 will come out and wipe out this strategy since it might result in a replay for a small subset of people who play pinball machines

Quoted from LOTR_breath:

This would be fine except you can't time out the level 2 modes, only the level one modes as I understand it. Correct?

1 week later
#110 6 years ago

Finally got some decent play time in on the new code (1.30). Unfortunately you guys are making it more strategic than it really is

The shot doubler you get for finishing a level 3 mode does not effect the mini wizard modes or Captain's Chair. In fact it seems very quirky in what does and does not get doubled. Also bringing a combo into a doubled shot still only awards 2x. So no 4X anything at this point.

Level 2 modes do not affect KM multiball so there is no benefit of holding off starting it.

The level 2 wiz mode is completely different than KM and has nothing to do with how well you play the previous modes.

Completing a corner piece to finish two lines for Captains Chair still only lights one award.

The drop target is an invalid switch meaning you can short plunge to the bottom flipper, shoot the drop, drain, repeat until Vengeance is ready.

Hopefully Lonnie can make some tweaks as this game has some real strategy potential.

#111 6 years ago
Quoted from sk8ball:

Finally got some decent play time in on the new code (1.30). Unfortunately you guys are making it more strategic than it really is
The shot doubler you get for finishing a level 3 mode does not effect the mini wizard modes or Captain's Chair. In fact it seems very quirky in what does and does not get doubled. Also bringing a combo into a doubled shot still only awards 2x. So no 4X anything at this point.

What?! Wow that is... not cool. Going 3 deep is now pointless imo. If you can't collect at 4X its easier to just backhand a ramp, and bang, you get playfield doublers for 5 seconds. The PF doubler would have to last all game for someone as crappy as me to try for the tier 3 stuff. Oh and is simply HAS to double captains chair and KM stuff.

Level 2 modes do not affect KM multiball so there is no benefit of holding off starting it.

Doesn't surprise me.

The level 2 wiz mode is completely different than KM and has nothing to do with how well you play the previous modes.

Makes some sense since you can't time out modes to get to it. Still kinda lame being that the doubling of scores on combo would be a way to play aggressive for big points in MB.

Completing a corner piece to finish two lines for Captains Chair still only lights one award.

Sounds glitchy but I'll definitely keep it in mind.

The drop target is an invalid switch meaning you can short plunge to the bottom flipper, shoot the drop, drain, repeat until Vengeance is ready.

I wonder if this will change... drop target switches are often excluded from valid playfield switches.

Hopefully Lonnie can make some tweaks as this game has some real strategy potential.

Agreed. With your findings here kme, we certainly overthought everything. Back to the clockwise mode completion for me.

IMO the game should be playing more like we were thinking - there were a few valid strategies popping up but it was all based on assumptions and theories of scoring that aren't valid. Currently we're back to the same strategy everyone had in Chicago.

#112 6 years ago

Thanks Keith. You have confirmed what I thought in
"http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/st-le-is-incredible-out-of-the-box/page/4" which is that how well you did in l2 modes has nothing to do with mini-wizard mode 2 (I haven't gotten to mini-wizard mode 3 yet). Also, I believe I got a big Destroy the Drill in KM even though I did nothing in the L1 mode (I timed it out until the final shot). I have a theory that just hitting the coruscating final shot of each L1 mode at the end might be a big determining factor in the KM value for the L1 mode. But for certain it is bizarre that I got a big value in KM for an essentially timed out L1 mode. I found out about the shot doubling "bug" you posted the hard way. I had the Save the Trenterprise right-ramp doubler during Klingon L2 and KM and it did nothing; only the combo doublers worked.

So right now the best confirmed strat I have used is to use vengeance mb to safely and continuously shoot the right 3-bank to build up torpedoes during ball save. Then after getting out of Vengeance mb, lock two balls for Klingon MB and light the 3rd up center (shoot lock 2 in left saucer so lock 3 is center top). With the ball cradled use your smart missiles to light vengeance scoring and then shoot the center to stack Klingon mb and vengeance scoring. Then just combo and center during Klingon mb for both mb jackpots and vengeance 2x jackpots. Other than that, simply timing down L1 modes and finishing with the coruscated shot and then playing out the L2 modes seems to work (back-handing left ramp and then shooting a lit shot on the right side for L2 seemed successful for a lot of the L2 modes).

Thanks.
Solarride.

Quoted from sk8ball:

Finally got some decent play time in on the new code (1.30). Unfortunately you guys are making it more strategic than it really is
The shot doubler you get for finishing a level 3 mode does not effect the mini wizard modes or Captain's Chair. In fact it seems very quirky in what does and does not get doubled. Also bringing a combo into a doubled shot still only awards 2x. So no 4X anything at this point.
Level 2 modes do not affect KM multiball so there is no benefit of holding off starting it.
The level 2 wiz mode is completely different than KM and has nothing to do with how well you play the previous modes.
Completing a corner piece to finish two lines for Captains Chair still only lights one award.
The drop target is an invalid switch meaning you can short plunge to the bottom flipper, shoot the drop, drain, repeat until Vengeance is ready.
Hopefully Lonnie can make some tweaks as this game has some real strategy potential.

#113 6 years ago
Quoted from SolarRide:

I have a theory that just hitting the coruscating final shot of each L1 mode at the end might be a big determining factor in the KM value for the L1 mode. But for certain it is bizarre that I got a big value in KM for an essentially timed out L1 mode.

Interesting. Would at least explain what makes that one shot special, but it's kinda dumb. I'll keep an eye out next time I play.

I found out about the shot doubling "bug" you posted the hard way. I had the Save the Trenterprise right-ramp doubler during Klingon L2 and KM and it did nothing; only the combo doublers worked.

So is the implementation just not there yet at all, or is it just not a 4X doubler on combo?

#114 6 years ago

Good question. When I shot the right ramp during Klingon L2 mode with the right ramp doubler, it seemed to do nothing.
Actually I hate to say this, but I THINK it (the L3 ramp doubler) actually NULLIFIED the combo doubler (so just 1x the shot) ?! But not 100% certain on this since the font on the DMD is very small for the values of the shot doubled or not. I know my score didn't jump up much at all for the anal setup involved.

The coruscated shot is definitely worth more than the other final shots, but it is difficult to double since hitting any other non-coruscated shot at the end will simply finish the mode. You need to hit some other shot with about a second left and then hit the coruscated shot to double it. But it's hard to tell which shot will be coruscated on the fly so I just play it safe and hit a coruscated shot without the combo doubler.

Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Interesting. Would at least explain what makes that one shot special, but it's kinda dumb. I'll keep an eye out next time I play.

So is the implementation just not there yet at all, or is it just not a 4X doubler on combo?

1 week later
#115 6 years ago

Thank you for confirming what I thought might be the case. When I get the level 3 doublers for the left or right ramp, combo scores just don't seem much bigger. I will say this, however. They do count for something. I have been trying a new strategy of playing Save the Enterprise down to level 3, then playing Klingon Battle down to level 3. The other day on location I had my best score to date doing this of 82M, and never even came close to the KM mode.

#116 6 years ago

I think they should just make it so you need to score at least a million in the level one modes for them to count as completed.

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