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(Topic ID: 235445)

Stern Spike Node Board Schematics Troubleshooting and Discussion


By JodyG

1 year ago



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  • 286 posts
  • 74 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 45 days ago by vireland
  • Topic is favorited by 39 Pinsiders

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    There are 286 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 6.
    #251 3 months ago
    Quoted from kermit24:

    I know deadflip does direct HDMI capture for his streams. Not sure how he does it. Maybe Jack can share?

    It requires an adapter.

    #252 3 months ago

    Stern was supposed to release a kit but not sure what the timeline is on that.

    #253 3 months ago
    Quoted from kermit24:

    I know deadflip does direct HDMI capture for his streams. Not sure how he does it. Maybe Jack can share?

    there is a splice harness that then has a hdmi breakout board. the IMX6 dev kit has and cpu can support hdmi, so in reality, stern just has to break the hdmi off on a new spike board, but that is more cost from what they currently have, so if they just made a kit they could keep the current board set.

    #254 3 months ago

    My Whoa Nelly just died while I was playing it last night. Missing the 5v after power cycling. From what I can tell this isn't fused and the 5v is the created on the CPU. So, I'm assuming my CPU (node 0) is shot. Anyone run across this?

    I saw a discussion from 2017 with the same symptoms but there was no resolution posted.

    Looks like these Spike 1 boards are $550. Major bummer. Doesn't look like anyone repairs them...

    Thanks for any suggestions.

    Brian

    10
    #255 3 months ago

    In the Spike system, the cpu board as well as all the node boards take 48 volts input and regulate it down to 5 volts. So you could have a bad node board.

    In my opinion a design that takes 48 volts and drops it down to 5 volts is a recipe for disaster. They should have used a seperate power supply unit or board to provide 5 volts and leave the 48 volts just for operating coils.

    #256 3 months ago
    Quoted from pinghetto:

    My Whoa Nelly just died while I was playing it last night. Missing the 5v after power cycling. From what I can tell this isn't fused and the 5v is the created on the CPU. So, I'm assuming my CPU (node 0) is shot. Anyone run across this?
    I saw a discussion from 2017 with the same symptoms but there was no resolution posted.
    Looks like these Spike 1 boards are $550. Major bummer. Doesn't look like anyone repairs them...
    Thanks for any suggestions.
    Brian

    Try a new SD card. Stern uses cheap ones, they die and weird things happen.

    Stern has how to make a new image on an SD card here:
    https://sternpinball.com/support/sd-cards/

    #257 3 months ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    In the Spike system, the cpu board as well as all the node boards take 48 volts input and regulate it down to 5 volts. So you could have a bad node board.
    In my opinion a design that takes 48 volts and drops it down to 5 volts is a recipe for disaster. They should have used a seperate power supply unit or board to provide 5 volts and leave the 48 volts just for operating coils.

    I did unhook everything from the CPU except the voltage in and the 5 volts was still missing. I thought just in case something down the line was dragging it down.

    I can try the SD, bit I removed the SD in a Spike 2 for testing and 5 volts was still present. If I remove the SD in my Nellie, the 5 volts is missing.

    Before this, I had no idea everything ran off that 48v. That seems crazy to me.

    Thank you, both, for the advice. I did email Stern. Really hoping they have some sort of exchange program I can pay for instead of buying a new board.

    Brian

    Brian

    #258 3 months ago

    Worst of all.... apparently this was my score when it died....

    20200627_154756 (resized).jpg
    #259 3 months ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    In the Spike system, the cpu board as well as all the node boards take 48 volts input and regulate it down to 5 volts. So you could have a bad node board.
    In my opinion a design that takes 48 volts and drops it down to 5 volts is a recipe for disaster. They should have used a seperate power supply unit or board to provide 5 volts and leave the 48 volts just for operating coils.

    I think you could be correct. We have done 3 node boards now, all blown the same chip.

    20200627_130217 (resized).jpg

    #260 3 months ago
    Quoted from pinballaddicted:

    I think you could be correct. We have done 3 node boards now, all blown the same chip.
    [quoted image]

    I'm not even getting anything on my display though. 5vdc led on main CPU doesn't light.

    Brian

    #261 3 months ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    In the Spike system, the cpu board as well as all the node boards take 48 volts input and regulate it down to 5 volts. So you could have a bad node board.
    In my opinion a design that takes 48 volts and drops it down to 5 volts is a recipe for disaster. They should have used a separate power supply unit or board to provide 5 volts and leave the 48 volts just for operating coils.

    Photo in earlier thread showed burn between pins 1 and 2 -- that is between input voltage and ground of the 48 to 6V input regulator.
    Device is rated for operation with voltages up to 55 volts with an absolute max voltage of 60V. I'm guessing these are taking a heck of a jolt at the 48V input.
    They did put a bidirectional transient voltage suppressor (TVS) in there which is rated at 51V but has a clamping voltage of 56 to 62V with max clamp voltage of 84V. They may be trying to clamp down on the voltage but they appear to be using too high of a clamp voltage. Combine this with no current limiting between VBBC and VBBA for when the TVS is triggered and you have a recipe for disaster.

    #262 3 months ago
    Quoted from pinghetto:

    Looks like these Spike 1 boards are $550. Major bummer. Doesn't look like anyone repairs them...
    Thanks for any suggestions.
    Brian

    I can give the repair a go if Stern doesn't get back to you with anything reasonable. PM me if interested.

    #263 3 months ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    Photo in earlier thread showed burn between pins 1 and 2 -- that is between input voltage and ground of the 48 to 6V input regulator.
    Device is rated for operation with voltages up to 55 volts with an absolute max voltage of 60V. I'm guessing these are taking a heck of a jolt at the 48V input.
    They did put a bidirectional transient voltage suppressor (TVS) in there which is rated at 51V but has a clamping voltage of 56 to 62V with max clamp voltage of 84V. They may be trying to clamp down on the voltage but they appear to be using too high of a clamp voltage. Combine this with no current limiting between VBBC and VBBA for when the TVS is triggered and you have a recipe for disaster.

    So if these have to be replaced, is it better to replace it with a TVS with an absolute max < 60V?

    And do you think these spikes would come from the power distibution board, or the power supply, or within the actual node board with something going out of spec and multiplying voltage?

    #264 3 months ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    So if these have to be replaced, is it better to replace it with a TVS with an absolute max < 60V?
    And do you think these spikes would come from the power distibution board, or the power supply, or within the actual node board with something going out of spec and multiplying voltage?

    Unfortunately, with the way the board is designed, this may do more harm than good.
    The 48V is ultimately coming from their power supply but it has the coils on this voltage. Coils are notorious for spiking their power rail.
    I agree with Ken above - the 48V supply should be used by the coils only. They should have provided a clean, lower voltage rail for node boards and other low voltage supplies.

    #265 3 months ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    Unfortunately, with the way the board is designed, this may do more harm than good.
    The 48V is ultimately coming from their power supply but it has the coils on this voltage. Coils are notorious for spiking their power rail.
    I agree with Ken above - the 48V supply should be used by the coils only. They should have provided a clean, lower voltage rail for node boards and other low voltage supplies.

    Well, if the coils are the issue could you put something on each coil plug that would limit the power draw to, say, 50V, then? If that's where these spikes are likely coming from and there's no board level way to fix it without an actual competent engineering job redesigning it at Stern, then limit how much peak the coil can draw?

    #266 3 months ago

    Hard to say where the spikes come from since the bulk of the voltage clipping is the function of the back-EMF diodes.
    Based on the photo shown in an earlier photo, obviously there are still spikes.

    Pay particular attention to what happens to the 48V line at 3:45 in this video:

    If I am not mistaken, Stern changed to a switching supply for the 48V... is this correct?
    I have always believed that there is no substitute for big iron (big transformer) for the solenoid loads.

    #267 3 months ago

    If they had a trade in replacement program, it would make it easier the swallow a cheaper board replacement. And then their engineers or bird manufacture could take the failed units and figure out why and what failures to fix them but.... they’re probably cheap for stern to pump out and the failure rate is low enough to get through a warranty period.

    Still hoping we can get more members to diagnose/fix so we can support as a community instead.

    #268 3 months ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    If I am not mistaken, Stern changed to a switching supply for the 48V... is this correct?
    I have always believed that there is no substitute for big iron (big transformer) for the solenoid loads.

    Yes, Stern is using a Mean Well model RSP-750-48 switching power supply.

    I agree with you also about using a big power transformer for powering the coils.

    #269 3 months ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    Yes, Stern is using a Mean Well model RSP-750-48 switching power supply.
    I agree with you also about using a big power transformer for powering the coils.

    500W Stern (mostly Spike 2) is a Meanwell RSP-500-48
    300W Stern (mostly Spike1) is a Meanwell SPV-300-48

    I don't think Stern uses a 750W power supply (at least in any machine I've seen)

    Spooky is using a SE-600-48 (and a separate, dedicated power supply for the 12v accessories), but I have no idea why they need 600W when the most Stern needs is 500 and Stern doesn't even have that second power supply. Plus, the spooky 600-48 does not have a thermal switch on the fan, so it runs all the time, which is super-annoying.

    #270 3 months ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    Try a new SD card. Stern uses cheap ones, they die and weird things happen.
    Stern has how to make a new image on an SD card here:
    https://sternpinball.com/support/sd-cards/

    What does Stern use that isn't cheap?

    #271 3 months ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    500W Stern (mostly Spike 2) is a Meanwell RSP-500-48
    300W Stern (mostly Spike1) is a Meanwell SPV-300-48
    I don't think Stern uses a 750W power supply (at least in any machine I've seen)
    Spooky is using a SE-600-48 (and a separate, dedicated power supply for the 12v accessories), but I have no idea why they need 600W when the most Stern needs is 500 and Stern doesn't even have that second power supply. Plus, the spooky 600-48 does not have a thermal switch on the fan, so it runs all the time, which is super-annoying.

    I was assuming Stern was using the same Mean Well model as American Pinball uses. My goof.

    1 month later
    #272 56 days ago

    Not sure if this is the proper place to post this - but could be a new Spike Problem that may not have been seen yet:

    Background:
    Guardians Pro on location - the damned clear action button broke (as they all seem to do in my experience). Because the housing around the button broke, the button ended up extending the metal leaf switch so it wedged PERFECTLY on the Action button LED connections. I removed the switch from contacting the LED board. The Action button LED still illuminated fine though afterwards.

    Symptom: Lower GI pulsated, Trough Optos glowing on and then off, coils not working. Game still detected the node board 8 and doesn't report issues. But L1 (Inductor) got super hot. I ordered new Node Board 8 (520-7017-72D1) as troubleshooting these boards seems pretty challenging. I installed Node board 8, it programmed it, but the very same symptoms as the first node board that L1 getting hot happened. I tried unplugging the connector going to the action button switch and LED as well - same symptom.

    Something else must be causing this issue - and although I have experience with SAM, this is the first problem I have had with SPIKE, so I am just re-learning.

    Does anyone have ANY ideas of what to check, or what to do next? I called and left a message with Stern, but I know they are likely up to their ears with backogs and the unfortunate passing of Chas.

    I figure this could be a good resource for future issues that others might have.

    Thank you!

    #273 56 days ago
    Quoted from thefoxxman:

    Not sure if this is the proper place to post this - but could be a new Spike Problem that may not have been seen yet:
    Background:
    Guardians Pro on location - the damned clear action button broke (as they all seem to do in my experience). Because the housing around the button broke, the button ended up extending the metal leaf switch so it wedged PERFECTLY on the Action button LED connections. I removed the switch from contacting the LED board. The Action button LED still illuminated fine though afterwards.
    Symptom: Lower GI pulsated, Trough Optos glowing on and then off, coils not working. Game still detected the node board 8 and doesn't report issues. But L1 (Inductor) got super hot. I ordered new Node Board 8 (520-7017-72D1) as troubleshooting these boards seems pretty challenging. I installed Node board 8, it programmed it, but the very same symptoms as the first node board that L1 getting hot happened. I tried unplugging the connector going to the action button switch and LED as well - same symptom.
    Something else must be causing this issue - and although I have experience with SAM, this is the first problem I have had with SPIKE, so I am just re-learning.
    Does anyone have ANY ideas of what to check, or what to do next? I called and left a message with Stern, but I know they are likely up to their ears with backogs and the unfortunate passing of Chas.
    I figure this could be a good resource for future issues that others might have.
    Thank you!

    That action button LED board plugs into the coin door interface board. I'd check voltages there, in and out. Sounds like you may have shorted something on there.

    #274 55 days ago

    I’ve got a long post, and I hope there’s somebody out there who can help me. I just bought a Ghostbusters machine that has a lot of mods. It was working fine but I think something got jostled during transport. When I turn it on I get a tech alert saying overcurrent protection and then you go into the menu and it says it’s occurring through note board eight and then talks about the right sling.I have attached photos showing the tech alert and included a list of mods that the game came with. It does have every stern manufacture upgrade that has come out. I’m not super tech savvy I just am looking for some guidance. I have talked with Stern, I have replaced all the lights associated with the slingshots and I have borrowed a different note board eight and replaced it to make sure that the node board eight is not bad.
    ‪Mods include:‬
    ‪Color DMD‬
    ‪Full cliffy protector set‬
    ‪NO GHOST ACRYLICS Speaker Grill Insert‬
    ‪Custom Book stacking mod‬
    ‪Stern Lasercut plasma gun side rails‬
    ‪Custom Ghostbuster logo Backbox Hinge set‬
    ‪Speaker Light Kit 10‬
    ‪GHOSTBUSTERS 3D GHOST TRAP‬
    ‪ECTO GOGGLES SHIELD‬
    ‪River of slime plastic pop bumper mod‬
    ‪ECTO 1 Lighted Car MOD‬
    ‪Stern TOPPER‬
    ‪Arcade Keepup Dimming Backbox Kit‬
    ‪TILT Graphics Sideblades‬
    ‪Ghostbusters Scolari Brothers Drop Target Spring Fix Kit‬
    ‪Shaker Motor Kit‬
    ‪Custom Coin door magnets‬
    ‪GB Keychain‬
    ‪PerfectPlay Silicone Rubbers‬
    ‪Flipper Fidelity Complete Stern Speaker System With 10" Woofer‬
    ‪PinGuard Cabinet, Felt and nylon Leg and bolt Protectors‬
    ‪Leg Leveler Rubber Castors - Set Of 4‬
    ‪PinGuard SPIKE Shooter Lane Protector‬
    ‪8-Way Power Splitter Board‬
    ‪Metal Hex Spacer (Ramp Fix)‬
    ‪BriteButtons Illuminated Flipper Button (Purple)‬
    ‪Gozer Action Figure‬
    ‪Pinmonk Full color LED Gels + I added my own for the center lights‬
    ‪Die Cut Ball-Drop Protective Playfield Mylar‬
    ‪Ghost Trap Flipper Bat covers‬
    ‪Ghostbusters Pinball Backboard Illumination‬
    ‪Ghostbusters Pinball Slimer Pinballs - Green with Pink‬
    ‪Ghostbusters Pinball Scoop LED‬
    ‪Swapped out to lower pressure plunger and auto launcher spring‬
    ‪Extended Sling Protector with Center Post‬
    ‪cp3r's Airball Protector‬
    ‪Ghostbusters Mirror Replacement Mod‬
    ‪Replaced with Williams/Bally heavy-duty inner Leg Bracket‬
    ‪Stern Yellow flippers‬
    ‪TerrorDog figures‬
    ‪Ball Baron Ninja balls‬
    ‪Added Stern service bulletin for the node boards‬
    ‪Fixed the left flasher issue that can short out‬
    ‪Custom Instruction cards‬
    ‪Stern Tournament Button and Switch Assembly‬
    ‪Ghostbusters Upgrade Kit - center post‬
    ‪Replaced with Stern Lockdown Bar and Receiver Assembly‬
    ‪Pinstadium lights kit‬
    ‪Ghostbuster logo Plunger Plate‬
    ‪Swinks Target Wedge - 4 Degree mod‬
    ‪Stern Firehouse and sign‬
    ‪Handpainted custom slimer covers‬
    ‪Custom Subway car mod‬
    ‪Yoyokopter pink outlane guards‬
    ‪Yoyokopter ghost trap mod‬
    Any help and insight would be greatly appreciated

    13310F98-2CD9-4D9C-A805-EFC0843AD919 (resized).pngCECDB8C9-7A08-4036-9943-F8F6A18C8000 (resized).png5B414CB2-BABE-4491-BF94-151E9B0FB3C4 (resized).png4C7E2313-FBE1-48C0-A637-5BC9200A8ECF (resized).png
    #275 55 days ago
    Quoted from izboy:

    Any help and insight would be greatly appreciated[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    Grab the Ghostbusters Prem/LE manual online flip to page 12 and check everything that's listed as plugging into Node 8, starting with the mods that tap into power for things that are controlled by Node 8.

    #276 55 days ago

    Didn't read your whole text yet, but when my GoT said Node #1 overcurrent protection. My shaker motor connection had come unplugged. I was thinking the worst when I got thst message.

    #278 54 days ago
    Quoted from 1963BSARGS:

    I had a similar node board 8 issue. If you already replaced the led to no avail, that is telling you that your right slingshot gi is shorted somewhere other than in the led, On mine, stern had done a crappy job of insulating the gi wires where they go under the frame bracket for the flipper. Over time, the gi wires vibrated and wore bare on the edge of the metal flipper frame. From the factory, there is a piece of fish paper stapled between the playfield and the bracket which is supposed to insulate the gi wires. On mine, it was not stapled in the correct place and allowed the gi wires to rub the flipper bracket.
    On mine, the worn insulation on the gi wire was barely perceptible. I removed my flipper and used heat shrink tubing to fix the issue. I also repositioned the fish paper where it should have been from the factory.
    Whatever you do, do not power off and on to clear out the overcurrent. It will sidestep the watchdog and cause damage.
    [quoted image]
    [quoted image]

    Power restart bypasses an overload? and what an overload trips something then on restart damage happens?
    Where is the fuse / barker?

    1 week later
    #279 45 days ago

    Thank you so much for all of your posts and help. I was able to correct the overload. I had one other question that I was wondering if somebody could help me with. The Nunzios Scaleri brother pops up and then pops right back down is there a quick way to adjust that?

    #280 45 days ago
    Quoted from izboy:

    Thank you so much for all of your posts and help. I was able to correct the overload.

    Was it a frayed wire under the flipper plate?

    Quoted from izboy:

    I had one other question that I was wondering if somebody could help me with. The Nunzios Scaleri brother pops up and then pops right back down is there a quick way to adjust that?

    It's either a broken "shelf" that the target grabs onto when it's raised, or you just need a little more tension to press it against the unbroken shelf. If you need more tension, add a thick washer on the spring on the post behind the target to press it more forward.

    I think the softer "bendy" targets were mostly on Deadpool, but the target may also be bent back a little and pulling it up with your hand then bending it forward a bit may also fix it.

    #281 45 days ago

    It was the pin stadium lights. one of the alligator clips that were attached in the area had shifted causing the overcurrent protection warning.

    #282 45 days ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    Was it a frayed wire under the flipper plate?

    It's either a broken "shelf" that the target grabs onto when it's raised, or you just need a little more tension to press it against the unbroken shelf. If you need more tension, add a thick washer on the spring on the post behind the target to press it more forward.
    I think the softer "bendy" targets were mostly on Deadpool, but the target may also be bent back a little and pulling it up with your hand then bending it forward a bit may also fix it.

    If I grab the target and pull it forward then it stays up. So I think that the shelf is OK. I am kind of a newbie at this. Is there a good video to show how to increase the tension on the spring on the backside of that target so it stays up?

    #283 45 days ago
    Quoted from izboy:

    It was the pin stadium lights. one of the alligator clips that were attached in the area had shifted causing the overcurrent protection warning.

    Alligator clips are not for permanent connections. Terminate it properly.

    #284 45 days ago
    Quoted from izboy:

    If I grab the target and pull it forward then it stays up. So I think that the shelf is OK. I am kind of a newbie at this. Is there a good video to show how to increase the tension on the spring on the backside of that target so it stays up?

    Not that I'm aware of. It's pretty easy, though. Find the target assembly and there are posts that go through the target that have a spring on them terminated by an E clip. Take off the E-clip (careful not to lose the spring that will be released) add a thick washer, put e-clip back on. It usually adds enough tension to press the target against the shelf and solve the problem you're seeing (if the target isn't bent like happens with the Li'l Deadpool target bank).

    #285 45 days ago
    Quoted from vireland:

    Not that I'm aware of. It's pretty easy, though. Find the target assembly and there are posts that go through the target that have a spring on them terminated by an E clip. Take off the E-clip (careful not to lose the spring that will be released) add a thick washer, put e-clip back on. It usually adds enough tension to press the target against the shelf and solve the problem you're seeing (if the target isn't bent like happens with the Li'l Deadpool target bank).

    Thank you so much!

    Is the the area you are talking about?

    image (resized).jpg66607DEF-DAEA-4DE8-9694-191F6B8650D8 (resized).jpeg
    #286 45 days ago
    Quoted from izboy:

    Thank you so much!
    Is the the area you are talking about?[quoted image][quoted image]

    Yes, that's the area. You just need to compress that spring a bit more to get more tension. A thick washer is usually enough (this is really a post to continue in the Ghostbusters thread... https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ghostbuster-issue-thread/page/90 )

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