(Topic ID: 137932)

Stern SPIKE Cooling MOD for KISS, WWE, GOT and Ghostbusters


By capguntrooper

3 years ago



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  • 117 posts
  • 34 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by vireland
  • Topic is favorited by 37 Pinsiders

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There are 117 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 3 years ago

I was getting really annoyed with Sterns new Spike Power Supply (PS) FAN blowing very loud and frequently. So I decided to find out how hot it was getting in the back box. I placed a remote thermometer in the back box centered over the SPIKE PCB. Playing THREE games the fan started coming on at a frequent rate, this gave me the average back box temperature of 95.7 F. (see pics) To remedy this I installed two LED intake fans at speakers and two exhaust fans at top of back box vents. After playing SIX games the PS fan came on for about 15 seconds at full speed then went back down to normal silent mode. From the pictures You can see inside back box and outside back box room temp and will notice a 15 degree cooler difference of having the fan mod installed. Perhaps the SPIKE system can handle prolonged heat temps of that degree and the PS fan can handle constant High RPM cooling sessions like that, but since it is a new system, who knows? In any case I now have a PIN that is no longer annoyingly loud and that much more enjoyable. Hope this helps

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1 month later
#2 3 years ago

I have the speaker light kit on my prem but I did the two back box exhaust fans and I can honestly say my ps fan barely kicks in to overdrive to where I hear it. Thanks capguntrooper

#3 3 years ago

For reference, my video card IDLES at 95F...or 35C....and tops out at 80C (176F) It's not the ideal air temperature, but it's probably well within spec for any electronics you can possibly think of inside Spike. Depends on the TDP of the larger chips mainly, and if they're adequately heatsinked/fanned to stay within operating temps. I don't even see any heatsinks on that board, so it's relying entirely on thermal convection for cooling...suggesting to me that your temperature is a total non-issue.

Fix it for the noise...temps are most likely fine.

-1
#4 3 years ago

Wow, good on you. A cooler running system can't be a bad thing for longevity. A quieter running pinball machine. My TWD isn't spiked and I can't imagine being bothered by the noise of a cooling fan over how loud the pin is especially with a sub. Pinball machines are noisey by their very mehcanical nature. But it got me thinking about where things are headed with the modern pin's sophistication.

Perhaps someday there will be a pin that requires near absolute silence so the subtle nuances demanded of it's theme sounds can be appreciated to their fullest.

As soon as somebody some where finds it necessary to install the first water cooling mod... I'm out.

3 months later
#5 3 years ago

Still new to the inner workings of the machine. How do you power the fans? Thinking of doing this to my GOT Pro.

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from Groo:

Still new to the inner workings of the machine. How do you power the fans? Thinking of doing this to my GOT Pro.

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=3720

You can also get an 8 way splitter

2 months later
#7 3 years ago

Came across this thread in a search... Yes, the fan noise is irritating particularly if you want to leave the game on in an otherwise quiet room. I haven't looked at it closely, but the fan is in the power supply, right? I was thinking the power supply temp is what is kicking it on and the other boards are fine at whatever ambient might be. Adding exhaust fans at the top of the back box will certainly help ... Not sure I want to mod the power supply case while in warranty but a nice heat sink or large fan with added vent holes on the power supply might solve it for good.

#8 3 years ago

If it's getting that hot in the backbox, then it's a really, really inefficient power supply ...

#9 3 years ago

Where did you buy the exhaust fan and where did you mount it. It is hard to see the placement with the closeup.

Have you noticed GOTle also getting hot?

Thanks.

#10 3 years ago

Hmmmmmm, have had my GOT on for hours, cooling fan kicked on, didn't burst into flames.

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

If it's getting that hot in the backbox, then it's a really, really inefficient power supply ...

I guess hot is relative. I think the ambient temps posted above show only a minor increase between the power supply, the boards/components -- basically, everything in the back box, plus any convection from bottom cabinet.

The bulk of the heat is probably the power supply -- the others don't put out much heat at all, but in a confined space, it slows the cooling. That power supply is pretty small (again off memory, but think about half the size of a typical desktop computer's power supply). My experience has been that those ultra small fans, like the one in the power supply, move very little air relative to their noise. A big 120mm slow fan on top of the power supply (perhaps cut open and a mesh grill attached) would likely move significantly more air and be silent.

I don't think there's a design flaw per se or that the machine is out of spec in any way -- but if you leave the machine on and have folks trying to watch a movie or something, the fan is certainly annoying. Obviously the solution now is to just turn it off. If you have several Spike systems, it would really be aggravating as they'd all be cycling at different times.

#12 3 years ago

Point still stands though. I've used passive (PC) PSUs in computer builds a number of times, for wattages exceeding what a full LED new Stern will ever draw. At 350W they barely get warm. Of course the CPU, mobo, RAM & graphics card dissipate quite a bit of heat, but the chips used for the Spike boards will barely dissipate anything. I don't see why there'd be tons of convection from coils etc in main cabinet, because that doesn't seem to be a problem in other machines ... and the old BW games with backboxes stuffed with wiring and what ought to be much less power efficient boards don't get so hot (in my experience).

#13 3 years ago

Agree rubberducks. Just for fun, I put temp probes in both my ToM (all LEDs) and GoT, left them on attract. Ambient was around 66 F. After a couple of hours, the backbox temps were:
ToM: 86 F
GoT: 80 F

Results about what I expected. The main point here is that Stern could've addressed this if they wanted to. The PSU could've had a larger/different fan layout, aluminum or larger box, etc., or silent as you mention. The fan noise is definitely the PSU fan, likely triggered by an internal temp probe. When it kicks on it definitely moves some air for its size, but at the cost of noise. Seems to be either on or off -- better would be always on but much slower.

This kind of reminds me of the original Xbox 360 -- the fan could've been quieter, but instead sounded like a jet engine.

#14 3 years ago

The fan doesn't come on often, yet.. But its still cool here. When summer hits I bet it comes on more and I want to do something to make it quiet! I hate fan noise!!

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from bhwolf:

Agree rubberducks. Just for fun, I put temp probes in both my ToM (all LEDs) and GoT, left them on attract. Ambient was around 66 F. After a couple of hours, the backbox temps were:
ToM: 86 F
GoT: 80 F
Results about what I expected. The main point here is that Stern could've addressed this if they wanted to. The PSU could've had a larger/different fan layout, aluminum or larger box, etc., or silent as you mention. The fan noise is definitely the PSU fan, likely triggered by an internal temp probe. When it kicks on it definitely moves some air for its size, but at the cost of noise. Seems to be either on or off -- better would be always on but much slower.
This kind of reminds me of the original Xbox 360 -- the fan could've been quieter, but instead sounded like a jet engine.

That result for the GoT is much worse than that for the ToM though ... there are no fans (air movement) at all in ToM and flow of air via convection out of the backbox vents is hindered by the mass of wiring and boards.

It just seems like the power delivery part of the board is very inefficient; at least far lower than it should be on a modern board.

Do you know if they're using good solid core Japan made caps? I assume not.

#16 3 years ago

Thought it was just me as I hate the fan noise. It's enough to put me off buying any Spike game completely.

Cool idea to mod this.

It is a bad design, plain and simple. Or cheap.

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

It's enough to put me off buying any Spike game completely.

That is crazy

#18 3 years ago

This is the power supply in mine (and likely all):
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/RSP-500-48/?qs=8uyp/y7yFW51E4MJhz7yTA==

Should be easy to mod and even replace if necessary... Although, not sure I want to do much while in warranty...

#19 3 years ago

I am interested in the mod fan noise sucks. Could you do a little link action to Amazon? Thanks in advance

#20 3 years ago

With most non pinball electronics, I find that replacing the $3 fan that came in the device with a $12 fan fixes the problem. I would forget adding cooling fans and look for a super quiet fan in the same size, voltage and at least the same CFM as the original and simply swap it out. Once someone finds a good fan that is plug and play they need to post it here.

As a side note, the fan in WOZ is loud as hell. I need to find a quiet fan for that game.

Example: I bought a expensive 24+2 port Ethernet switch and it was as loud as a jet engine. I opened it up and found the fan. All the specs were printed right on it (and also available in a google search of the part number). I bought a super quiet fan that had 10% more CFM and installed it. The switch is now really, really quiet and runs cooler than before.

#21 3 years ago

John what does CFM stand for?

#22 3 years ago

Cubic Feet Per minute.

This does get a little more complicated, because it sounds like the Spike fan is speed controlled. I would still have to think that a better fan can be sourced.

#23 3 years ago

Is this a concern on all current and upcoming spIke titles?

#24 3 years ago
Quoted from bhwolf:

This is the power supply in mine (and likely all):
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/RSP-500-48/?qs=8uyp/y7yFW51E4MJhz7yTA==
Should be easy to mod and even replace if necessary... Although, not sure I want to do much while in warranty...

Interesting. I was expecting a multi voltage power supply with 5, 12, 24 and 48 volts output and it turns out this is a single output 48volt supply. If you look at the data sheet it basically says the fan is on if the power supply reaches 40 degrees C and off below that temp. Any yes, it looks like it would not be tough to open the supply and put a quieter fan inside.

So the cooling fan mod is simply keeping the fan from coming on at all. Not a bad solution too as long as they are quiet.

Quoted from bhwolf:

After a couple of hours, the backbox temps were:
ToM: 86 F
GoT: 80 F

I once measured 130+ degrees inside a TZ head after ten minutes of playing. No LEDs. I also used to make and install my own cooling fans on all of my WPC machines. Now I just replace the bulbs in the backbox with single LED bulbs or retro LED bulbs and leave the rest of the machine regular bulbs.

#25 3 years ago
Quoted from shlockdoc:

Where did you buy the exhaust fan and where did you mount it. It is hard to see the placement with the closeup.
Have you noticed GOTle also getting hot?
Thanks.

Quoted from coz6:

I am interested in the mod fan noise sucks. Could you do a little link action to Amazon? Thanks in advance

My Game of Thrones LE along with my Kiss LE would both have fans running all the time. All my pins are in my basement and is dry and cool down there so ambient temperatures were not warm at all. I am actually testing another cooling mod, but may not be able to report back on its testing until after my deployment. My mod here simply pushes the hot air out so it does not stay in back box, I went further with my cooling method and added 91MM LED fans if I remember correctly to the speakers that pull air in to achieve posted temps. All the fans themselves however are loud (four in total) if you do not use a a 4-way fan controller to lessen their CFM output. I did have to widen slightly the case fan holes for proper fitment for speakers and add spacers for speaker mounting. See below links for reference. More to follow.

amazon.com link »

amazon.com link »

amazon.com link »

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#26 3 years ago

What happened to your GOT topper?

Love the funky under cab kiss lights.

#27 3 years ago

Shoot, I'm not interested in the cooling aspects as I doubt it will be an issue with how my games get played. But, those fans in the GOT looks really cool. I may have to do this for cosmetic reasons. Heck of a lot cheaper than $40 for a speaker light kit but the same effect.

Dang you cap!

#28 3 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Shoot, I'm not interested in the cooling aspects as I doubt it will be an issue with how my games get played. But, those fans in the GOT looks really cool. I may have to do this for cosmetic reasons. Heck of a lot cheaper than $40 for a speaker light kit but the same effect.
Dang you cap!

Actually better, you implement a cooling factor so your ps is not just sucking in hot air taking longer to cool down.

-6
#29 3 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Shoot, I'm not interested in the cooling aspects as I doubt it will be an issue with how my games get played. But, those fans in the GOT looks really cool. I may have to do this for cosmetic reasons. Heck of a lot cheaper than $40 for a speaker light kit but the same effect.
Dang you cap!

The same effect???

RGB color changing? Flash, fade and strobe lighting effects with speed control? Adjustable brightness? Remote controlled operation? The ability to create and store your own custom colors? The ability to easily integrate them with a Rock Custom Pinball undercabinet light kit and the game's flashers? The option to connect to a ColorDMD SIGMA to have the ability to remotely control and color sync with the SIGMA display?

I know my Speaker Light Kits offer all of those cool effects and features. I don't know anything about computer fans, so I don't know if they offer all of those things or not.

Or by "the same effect" did you just mean they are lights in the speaker holes?

To each their own and we are all entitled to our own opinions. If you think the fans look good and makes sense in a speaker hole, that is your opinion. What I don't agree with is that a light up PC fan, modified to fit in a pinball machines speaker hole, has the same effect as a Speaker Light Kit that was designed specifically for use in pinball machines.

Doug (SpeakerLightKits.com)

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#30 3 years ago
Quoted from DugFreez:

The same effect???
RGB color changing? Flash, fade and strobe lighting effects with speed control? Adjustable brightness? Remote controlled operation? The ability to create and store your own custom colors? The ability to easily integrate them with a Rock Custom Pinball undercabinet light kit and the game's flashers? The option to connect to a ColorDMD SIGMA to have the ability to remotely control and color sync with the SIGMA display?
I know my Speaker Light Kits offer all of those cool effects and features. I don't know anything about computer fans, so I don't know if they offer all of those things or not.
Or by "the same effect" did you just mean they are lights in the speaker holes?
To each their own and we are all entitled to our own opinions. If you think the fans look good and makes sense in a speaker hole, that is your opinion. What I don't agree with is that a light up PC fan, modified to fit in a pinball machines speaker hole, has the same effect as a Speaker Light Kit that was designed specifically for use in pinball machines.
Doug (SpeakerLightKits.com)

12402206_10207163129669384_4900663303576275896_o_(resized).jpgIMG_1904_(resized).JPG

WHOA, take it easy there hoss. This is a thread on how to keep your spike fan from constantly blowing at a high RPM's, not lighted speaker thread. The cooling fans do what the thread is labeled. You want to advertise on my thread feel free, but do not expect oranges when we are all talking about apples here. I dig you LED speaker kits and have them in my SAM pins, but I had to do led fans for my spike games because it sounds like a jet engine taking off in my basement every 5 minutes.

#31 3 years ago
Quoted from capguntrooper:

WHOA, take it easy there hoss. This is a thread on how to keep your spike fan from constantly blowing at a high RPM's, not lighted speaker thread. The cooling fans do what the thread is labeled. You want to advertise on my thread feel free, but do not expect oranges when we are all talking about apples here. I dig you LED speaker kits and have them in my SAM pins, but I had to do led fans for my spike games because it sounds like a jet engine taking off in my basement every 5 minutes.

I was responding to the "Heck of a lot cheaper than $40 for a speaker light kit but the same effect." comment that 85vett made. That is why I quoted him in my post.

I did not bring up the speaker light kits and my intent was not to advertise or hijack. I did feel the need to respond and point out my Speaker Light Kits are not the same as these fans, as was insinuated. The pictures were attached to further show this point that not all lights coming out of a speaker hole are the same.

Sorry if my post seemed uncalled for or rude....back to the cooling talk.

Hopefully the loud power supply fan is an issue Stern resolves. After playing it, I am thinking of getting a Ghostbusters myself. It would be my first SPIKE game and hopefully they have got more SPIKE bugs worked out by then.

Doug (SpeakerLightKits.com)

#32 3 years ago

I too get annoyed with the fan noise and will never buy a nib spike system because of it. The noise drives me crazy.
I will get around to modifying the power supply so it has no fan down the track.
Too me it's just a cheap arse power supply and is just more cost cutting from stern.

#33 3 years ago

I cracked mine open and there is a 40mm by 20mm deep fan, 12v, 9500rpm pushing about 11cfm:
http://www.nmbtc.com/fans/part-numbers/search/1608VL-04W-B69-B00/4991

Can't post pics from the device I'm on now but will later. It actually looks like a reasonable quality fan, compared to some I've seen. I think replacing it with a good maglev or fluid fan with a slightly reduced CFM can lower the noise significantly, but it's going to be a trade off between noise and air volume at this size. Because it cycles on/off and is off most of the time, I'm not going to worry much about downsizing slightly.

#34 3 years ago
Quoted from bhwolf:

I cracked mine open and there is a 40mm by 20mm deep fan, 12v, 9500rpm pushing about 11cfm:
http://www.nmbtc.com/fans/part-numbers/search/1608VL-04W-B69-B00/4991
Can't post pics from the device I'm on now but will later. It actually looks like a reasonable quality fan, compared to some I've seen. I think replacing it with a good maglev or fluid fan with a slightly reduced CFM can lower the noise significantly, but it's going to be a trade off between noise and air volume at this size. Because it cycles on/off and is off most of the time, I'm not going to worry much about downsizing slightly.

Yikes! 34.6db of noise. Yeah that is not good. The problem is 40mm fans have to scream to move air. Still an easy fix. Personally I would just mount an external 80mm fan blowing directly on to the power supply at the fan hole and disconnect the internal fan. I would look for 20db or less in the spec. Or as mentioned above a fan with less CFM could be installed in the ps.

I'll have to open up WoZ tonight and see about a replacement fan for that noisy one since I don't have a SPIKE game yet. I can turn on all 15 pins in my game room and there is dead silence except the fan in that one game. Wave of the future...

-2
#35 3 years ago

Only full PC based solutions need fans, not Spike.

#36 3 years ago
Quoted from golfingdad1:

Is this a concern on all current and upcoming spIke titles?

So again I ask.....

#37 3 years ago
Quoted from golfingdad1:

Is this a concern on all current and upcoming spIke titles?

I think it's likely -- Stern can likely swap in any 48v power supply, even on later runs of GoT, that may have quieter components. But, I'm sure 90% of the people don't care. I can't hear the fan over any game being played, it's only if there's silence in the room. If it bothers you (as it does me), you can either swap it out, turn off the game, or live with it.

I happen to have an environment where I like the machines to be on, and when not being played people may watch a movie or my wife reads a book, and the fan is a nuisance. Right now we just turn off the machine (another nuisance: the switch location). What bothers me about it is that there's no design reason it has to be this way (plenty of room in cabinet/backbox).

#38 3 years ago

Pics -- fan connection is almost dead center (red/black wire that leads back to fan). Will need to cut away some of the foam/glue stuff (whatever it's called) if removing:

spike_-_psu_(resized).jpg

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#39 3 years ago

I have a 40x20 maglev I can try. It's kind of loud but maybe not quite as bad as the stock one.

Has anyone tried running it without the cover? I would be curious if the fan ever kicks on.

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from DugFreez:

I know my Speaker Light Kits offer all of those cool effects and features. I don't know anything about computer fans, so I don't know if they offer all of those things or not.

He's likely referring to the helix those (and other) lighted computer fans create.
It's not something your product mimics (nor should it) as it's essentially a side-effect of shining led's on spinning curved fan blades.
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As far as I know it would be tough to mimic the '3D-ness' of the effect without something like a spinning fan.

#41 3 years ago

Doesn't that effect the sound?

#42 3 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

Doesn't that effect the sound?

Has no effect to sound, though it may if you do not use a fan controller to lower the rpm's like I do.

#43 3 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

He's likely referring to the helix those (and other) lighted computer fans create.
It's not something your product mimics (nor should it) as it's essentially a side-effect of shining led's on spinning curved fan blades.
Fan_(resized).PNG
As far as I know it would be tough to mimic the '3D-ness' of the effect without something like a spinning fan.

That's 100% on target where my mind was at. They don't do all the other cool things that a real light kit can do but all I'm after is a static color so this will be perfect and will give me some extra cooling effects too

#44 3 years ago

Thanks bhwolf,
I have my eye on a GB , hopefully they pit in a better/ quieter fan

#46 3 years ago
Quoted from Erik:

I have a 40x20 maglev I can try. It's kind of loud but maybe not quite as bad as the stock one.
Has anyone tried running it without the cover? I would be curious if the fan ever kicks on.

I removed the lid and after several hours and 6 or so games I haven't heard the fan come on at all. There is one small green LED in there but I haven't been able to see it through the backglass. Perhaps a perforated lid could be sourced for this model to keep the components semi covered.

I'm going to hold off the fan swap for now and see how this goes.

/selfquote

#47 3 years ago

My only concern relative to removing the PS cover is you may be compromising some intended ducting of the airflow over the hotter components/regions in the PS. So, result may be less effective cooling. Further, the temp sensor with the PS cover removed may not trigger when intended, allowing the hot spots to get hotter than expected.

Increasing air exchange in the backbox seems a safer alternative.

#48 3 years ago
Quoted from Erik:

I removed the lid and after several hours and 6 or so games I haven't heard the fan come on at all. There is one small green LED in there but I haven't been able to see it through the backglass. Perhaps a perforated lid could be sourced for this model to keep the components semi covered.
I'm going to hold off the fan swap for now and see how this goes.
/selfquote

I have mixed reviews on this method of which I tried at first and my results were as follows.

COVER OFF IDLE: Did not hear fan at all while game was idle.
COVER OFF PLAYING: Fan would be on constantly or have very long cooling times after a few game plays
COVER OFF IDLE WITH COOLING MOD: Fan rarely cam on while game was idle.
COVER OFF PLAYING WITH COOLING MOD: Fan would have very long cooling times after a few game plays unless I modified cooling speed.

#49 3 years ago

Sounds like someone should sell a lid with a built in 80mm quiet, low speed exhaust fan. Less than 25 cfm and 20db. Or DIY.

#50 3 years ago
Quoted from markp99:

My only concern relative to removing the PS cover is you may be compromising some intended ducting of the airflow over the hotter components/regions in the PS. So, result may be less effective cooling. Further, the temp sensor with the PS cover removed may not trigger when intended, allowing the hot spots to get hotter than expected.
Increasing air exchange in the backbox seems a safer alternative.

That could be true. I'm not sure there is much ducting going on with this particular PSU though. I was looking at the PSUs the guys making custom pins are using and they are typically perforated case, or sometimes just a PCB attached directly to the backbox with standoffs.

Quoted from capguntrooper:

I have mixed reviews on this method of which I tried at first and my results were as follows.
COVER OFF IDLE: Did not hear fan at all while game was idle.
COVER OFF PLAYING: Fan would be on constantly or have very long cooling times after a few game plays
COVER OFF IDLE WITH COOLING MOD: Fan rarely cam on while game was idle.
COVER OFF PLAYING WITH COOLING MOD: Fan would have very long cooling times after a few game plays unless I modified cooling speed.

Our environments may be different. I still haven't had the fan start. Before it seemed it would spin up every few minutes on attract, or always at the end of a game. I like your speaker fans tho, clever idea.

Quoted from John_I:

Sounds like someone should sell a lid with a built in 80mm quiet, low speed exhaust fan. Less than 25 cfm and 20db. Or DIY.

Yeah I thought about just cutting a hole for an 80mm in the lid too, but you know how we like reversible mods

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