Wonder if the new code will fit on the classic version, if the new dots let's say take up more space?

Video takes up more space than traditional dots. Should work fine unless they switch some wiring around or something. FG code works on Shrek and vice versa.

What are the chances Stern announces before Christmas?

Pretty good, I think.

I don't think they will announce until end of January. It is too close to Christmas already, everyone knows what they are buying their significant other already.

Wait, what? I have no clue what to get my wife. Yikes, I better step away from Pinside!

With the recent news from Gary Stern on production delays it might get pushed back a bit.

The Ironman VE has it's own version of the rom due to different CPU boards (even though they're the same system) -- so I would expect the same thing will happen with Spiderman. New rom will only work in the new version. I would be surprised if their licensing arrangement didn't REQUIRE that.

When is a new version of Flash coming out with different artwork. Love that game. My first pin had one since 1980 before I knew who Steve Ritchie was or the internet.

Don't forget that selling more at lower prices will also help bury the competition... on the other hand, would that "flood the market" and ruin future sales? ....

And yet $2200 games that should be $2k sit for months when sellers are firm on price... I guess NIB buyers are undisciplined. I'm one of those $5k I'm in, $6k no effin' way guys. I also have the proceeds of the sales of mm, afm, im & taf sitting in my "play money" account. I guess maybe I'm a cheapskate.

You're just talking about principal...that's different than not being able to afford it. I'm the same way - I'm generally out on NIB purchases just because it makes me feel ridiculous to spend that much. I'll probably suck it up and bite on a title that really resonates with me like Ghostbusters...but I'm not "impulse buying" every new game like I was a few years ago.

I still say that if you're a person who would spend $5k on a "toy", you "could" spend a bit more and not have to starve in order to do so.

So the old business question in any business to an owner, is it better to sell more pins to increase volume at lower profit lets just say or sell fewer pins at higher gross profit margin?

CVP Analysis

px = vx + FC + Profit

In the above formula,
p is price per unit;
v is variable cost per unit;
x are total number of units produced and sold; and
FC is total fixed cost

p and x are basically known. v, FC, and thus Profit are up for speculation. So although true, the equation is not helpful here.

another aspect is to dominate or injure the competition.

If Stern wants to impact JJP in any way, take away excess collectors room and money from the market. Stern can do this more effectively by selling 1200 pins at $5000 than if it sold 300 pins at $6600.

Follow this up with LOTR VE just as JJP is struggling to come to market with The Hobbit.

Or, Stern could just release 8 new titles for every one that JJP produces. I was at a get-together last night, and someone told me he was buying GoT as a placeholder until The Hobbit shipped. I wonder how often this happens, and how often the placeholder ends up being a permanent addition? Since 2013:

JJP: WOZ
Stern: Metallica, Star Trek, Mustang, TWD, GoT, KISS, Wrestlemania, WNBJM

Put that in terms of incoming revenue. I'm sure Stern's operating costs are astronomical compared to JJP, but I'd take a constant stream of incoming revenue going straight to cost over a trickle from the faucet with costs that can't be lowered any more.

Quality > Quantity

All day, every day.

I would not dare to say Stern is less quality. Point is they have a model that just easy to adjust to new titles. That brings however less cutting edge technology to the product. As all with Stern looks modular and created in large quantities. Quality is good, repair is easy and costs are (or should be) low. Stern just brings pinball to the masses...JJP is just a different approach, same as Highway pinball and Dutch Pinball, more for the collector than for mass operation out in the field.

I have a WOZ, and ten Sterns. The only machine not working is the WOZ.

Edit-- and I don't mind that it's not working, shit happens. But this whole quality argument is fcking stupid.

Fun > 'not fun' every day

I'll take 'Low quality' fun pin like IM or Tron over a tour de force pin that I don't find fun to play.

Not saying Woz is bad but I don't care for the gameplay, there's a whole thread debating if Woz is fun or not and some people not just me fall on the not fun side.

I'm not saying JJP does not put a lot of weight into their games, but I'll take a light game like IM.

Which is why you own Slugfest and Jurassic Park? =P

Ouch that's gotta hurt Gene!

Hey now, don't bash JP!

I'm interested by this because Spider-Man is a licence issue that i wasn't sure they could overcome. Unlike basically everything else where licensing is overblown (you want to license Batman Returns Batman? Sure! Cut us a check!), Spider-Man is in the unique position where Disney now owns it and wants it out of the hands of Sony desperately. The reason for the last reboot was so Sony would keep the license to make movies, but I don't know where licensing for non-active movies would be like on commercial products.

I do know that Disney would rather it doesn't happen, so I think a comic art package is a great solution as they just need to deal with Disney then, but do they have to drop the Sony quotes?

I'm really interesting to see what this ends up as.

I think this illustrates how, not only to keep the doors open,but also how to survive a flop.Like WWE.

Not sure any of the others that have joined the fray could survive a flop.Especially under "no pre-order" conditions.

We've(pinheads)have been conditioned or brain washed into accepting Sterns quality.Many,many QC, fit and finish, complaints over the years.

Repair is easier,especially with the evolution of the board sets.But this is more a result of technological advancements vs Stern innovation.

Costs should be low,newer, readily available,no need for repro,warranty etc.BUT......they are not!!!Stern replacement parts are the most expensive in pinball.

I would rather own 4-5 of those Sterns before owning WOZ, which is pretty impressive imo.

Exactly, random rollovers on the playfield to light multiball => not fun.

I like both of those games, but when the point is quality over quantity, and those are the two games you own versus another game around the same value of both....it's REALLY hard to argue that SlugFest to most people is worth the money versus almost any full featured pin you can buy for the money..at least in my area. I've seen them sell locally in the 1500 buck range.

If the VE comes out at $6700 would the pristine older one be worth more than $5000?

But I wonder if WWE was a flop, from Stern's perspective. If they sold say 500 to ops, and they've done well on location, then they made a little money and kept the line going.

I'm guessing SMVE won't have much impact on the selling price of the older SM, given the $1700 difference. I've seen nicely modded original SMs listed for ~$5300, and that seems about right.

Slugfest, I get the point on, but it depends on what you're looking for really. I don't exactly have two games, and based on pricing alone I have much better "quality" games stored and awaiting a new house while JP keeps plugging along in my basement.

I know YOU have more than 2 games, I don't know if that's his situation. I mean, come on..it's not exactly like I'm in the clear here either. We all have our favorites, and Crescendo is NOBODY'S except for mine...and that's only because I put a *ridiculous* amount of work into the playfield to repaint it! I'm on the verge of considering loaning out or storing my Tron and Metallica just because I don't really play them currently, haven't for months, and would like some more space in my living room..

Is this what we are resorting to now? Making fun of each other's collections?

I haven't been in the hobby very long. Bought a JP because it's a sweet game and my son is obsessed with dinosaurs. The Slugfest I bought from a guy who was moving, so he was selling his stuff at a pretty good price.

JJP is on my radar for one of my future games. Whether it's Pat Lawlor's machine, or a reasonably priced WOZ, I'm probably going to pick one up at some point.

Stern just rubs me the wrong way. I feel like their games are churned out so fast that their isn't much to them. Very cookie cutter if you ask me. Just my opinion, though.

He only has three but they are from current companies. You talk a lot of trash for not being a customer or fellow collector. Not saying you need to buy to comment but yeah I respect another person who buys the similar games as me much more than one maybe saw a game 1 or 2 times out in the wild.
Mind you there are experts that only play in the wild but they have earned that trust with great commentary and proof of their opinions. You just crap all over threads you are not buying in.

Since Xmas is right around the corner, I doubt Stern will announce this till 2016.

I know, right? X-men, Avengers, KISS and WWE are all basically THE SAME GAME.

No I don't think so. A NIB SM VE at $6700 would devalue greatly once opened IMO and settle near $5500-$5800. Pristine old ones won't go much above $5000 in the near future given that a VE is being done regardless of it's price. With so many new pins coming out all older pins seem to be dropping a bit in value and desirability. Just my opinion of course.

If the price is that high, I'd be happy with a HUO at $5500 and in reality, I'll probably just get a nice older Spidey for less than $5K.

Or you may just want to wait for a NIB "Guardians of the Galaxy" for 4700.

It is a flop.

Not in NYC.Local league officials routinely omit this table when they can.As far as making money and keeping the line going.How would you or anybody beside Sterns CFO know the bottom line?

Who do you think made your JP=Stern its the same company. Stern puts out fun pins enough said. Stern is the market every one else building machines is for the home collector. Spiderman is badd ass as is. The new art should be sweet as well.

That's exactly my point. How do you know that WWE was a "flop", if you don't have access to Stern's books? You should have quoted my entire sentence, which was:

If they sold say 500 to ops, and they've done well on location, then they made a little money and kept the line going.

So when is the comic book versions of BDK, IM, & Avengers coming out?

I'm not sure that is the best example. Emerald City Multiball is specifically made easier to start so noobs can feel like they are doing something in the game. It is random so that they see it and get intrigued as the machine lets out the holler of "Multiball". As you learn the game NOT starting ECMB becomes part of the equation. I realize not all games can be everything to all people, but almost every game wants to setup achievements that newer players can understand and hit. Sometimes that even means just giving them to you. Then you save the harder ones like Rescue for more advanced players.

Yes yes a thousand times yes!! I'm so stupid I would rebuy IM and Avengers if it had comic book art.

I don't think they will. Licenses aren't a problem with those. Spider-Man is rather unique in the changes with the licensor and potential impact. If this is all true, I'm really curious to see what they do for sound.

If the game sells crazy well though, I could see them doing at least Batman in comic style.

That one is screaming for a new playfield