Harley has been making bikes for decades too, how they looking of late?

You can chase the nostalgia market (Munsters, Beatles, Batman) for only so long before running out of buyers, you need to make some product for audience outside your prime demographic. Stern has with Deadpool, Metallica, Guardians of the Galaxy, Black Knight SOR, Star Trek (new) so I think they will be fine.

I don't think I'd buy a new one though just based on reports from people waiting for code updates to make a game fully playable, inexcusable after paying several grand for a NIB pin. A better strategy is to pickup a used pin after the bugs have finally been squashed IMHO.

Don't forget the losses along the way; I had my own business for several years and there was stuff tried that just didn't pan out and was discarded which all cost time and money.

I'm sure pinball is no different.

What market are you referring too?

Sales in the US are down almost 50% from a decade ago and HD closed their KS plant last year.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/01/30/harley-davidson-kansas-city-plant-motorcycle-sales-fall/1078008001/

Sales have been sliding the last 4 years.

People use this in an argument which I'm not really understanding why.

Stern went out of business once, Williams was number one and got out after decades of being in business, Gottlieb was number one for decades and closed doors.

"Stern is doing great, they have been in business x number of years" it isn't a great argument.

I'm not wishing ill on Stern. They have the number one spot for the moment and one hopes they improve on their product to stay there.

Code for one; unconscionable that you sell a pin and it isn't fully functional right out of the box.

Ghostbusters STILL isn't correct, when did it come out? People state BM66 was a train wreck out of the box and only now starting to shine, ditto for Munsters.

Node boards failures seems also to be a concern.

Just for the code issue alone I will not buy a new Stern, mentioned it earlier in the thread you are better off waiting a few years once it is resolved if ever for your title of choice. I will not support a company with my dollars who releases unfinished product.

1) Some titles have fewer issues than others.

2) I would feel more comfortable buying a NIB pin from other companies than Stern on the code issue. Why do people think it is acceptable to spend $7500-$10,000 on a pin and it does not have all the features as promised?

Would you buy a new car only to find out after the radio and heater don't work, but might after a code update to the body control module? Just wait 24 months?

You asked my opinion, you got it. Of course now I get attacked for bringing up a perfectly valid reason for not jumping on the new Stern pin bandwagon. whatever.

Purpose of the thread is to discuss Stern's shortcomings, not to get into a fanboi pissing contest.

Just doing a board search for "code" and the bulk of Stern complaints are on that subject which is the basis of my opinion.

Bash toy complaints are subjective

So no problem right? Unless you are interested in a Ghostbusters of course. Which I am. Then you are ass out. Why should I buy a Deadpool then? Same company churning the product out. Poor service IMHO.

Than we are in agreement.

Ghostbusters 1.13 code problems, well past 0.50 release.

You asked about promises? Right there on Stern's site.

https://sternpinball.com/2019/06/04/stern-of-the-union-address-june-2019/

"Ghostbusters code update remains in our schedule."

Game has been out since March of 2016. 1.13 is the last release.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ghostbusters-v113-bugs-and-features

BUGS REMAINING:
-----------------------------------------
- Disabling slimer motor on an LE / Premium caused 100% reset when reaching the Slimer phase of "He Slimed Me"
- Puts up a "FREE PLAY/PRESS START" attract mode screen in the middle of some modes for a few seconds. USUALLY it's in the Extra Ball animation, but has happened elsewhere. [PREMIUM]
- [Prem/LE] If you lock two balls, the game ends and you start the next game without letting it clear the subway, when you lock the next balls in the NEW game, it will not pause for the lock animation. Ball goes in, lock animation starts, ball is ejected while lock animation is still playing. It's quite surprising the first time it happens.
- Terror Dog Champion will award and let you enter initials for scores greater than your main score. For example, I had a 50 million game, and it had me put my initials in as the 158 million Terror Dog Champion. The TDC exceeded my full game score by 108 million.
- Gozer Champion will award and let you enter initials for scores greater than your main score also. Very broken.
- I haven't been able to nail this down to reproduce it every time, but on the GB Premium, OCCASIONALLY when you finish a game, the first time through the attract mode, the trivia screen will simply say INVALID, centered on the otherwise blank screen. [PREMIUM]
- Librarian Insert still unused [PREMIUM]
- Proton Pack stand-up target lights partially or completely do not participate in attract mode lightshow. Which lights do/don't seem to be random.[PREMIUM]
- In a multiplayer game, at the end of the ball, it skips the screen that shows what the player's score would have been after bonuses and skips right to the next player.
- Storage Multi-ball music priority below mode music. Should be above.
- Restart bug remaining, possibly linked to Special award. [PREMIUM]
- Mass Hysteria started at the same time as Don't Cross the Streams is activated and game does not pause multiball start while video mode is playing. MH gets all the balls out on the playfield as player is stuck in video mode. Balls drain. When video mode ends, tallies up bonuses for that ball and ends that turn.
- Starting with 1.13, post on left orbit pops up to hold ball even if only the first switch is hit on the opposite Right orbit. Before, it waited until the ball went around the orbit to pop up and hold the ball, which seemed to be better behavior. [PREMIUM]
- Spook Central mode sometimes will not end, even after all shots are made. Music for it continues underneath other modes.
- Was able to start WE GOT ONE mode while SPOOK CENTRAL was half finished and not timed-out. When WE GOT ONE completed, SPOOK CENTRAL came back exactly where it was interrupted. For more detail see post #113 and #138. For how to reproduce this bug consistently, see post #235 on this thread.
- Mass Hysteria stacked with WRTBY. Phase 2 of WRTBY is to lock a ball in the right scoop and left hole to start Loopin' Supers. He locked the ball in the right scoop and drained everything else when Mass Hysteria flippers flipped. At this point , the game was unable locate the locked ball. It never ball searches, even if it goes to "Missing Pinballs". Even if you tilt, it won't let the locked ball go and thus will never serve another ball. Basically you are permanently stuck in wizard mode due to the software's inability to release the lock and presumably recognize that multi-ball had ended. A hard reset was required to kick the ball out. [PRO]
- If you tilt and you start another game while the bob is still swinging enough to make contact with the ring, ball 1 of the new game will instantly tilt (no warnings).
- When restarting a new game from a non finished one (a bad 1st ball), left "scoleri" target was UP, these targets remain UP, and even better, when hitting that single target, the code gave a "super jackpot" as i've hit the 2 brothers. Clearly game variables are not being fully re-initialized at restart.
- Soft plunge to play sound effect then hard plunge to activate orbit rollover. It will award skill shot every time.
- (Pro) Ball Search does not raise slimer to release trapped ball. Eventually just ends the ball and THEN slimer moves.
- (Pro) While in Multiball, shoots in the Subway(right saucer) triggers ballsave but it shouldn't(Shoot-Again starts flashing). Center drains won't be saved(like it should be) but outlane drains will serve a new ball. This bug does occur in every Multiball. I guess(Feature Adjustment #14) "Subway Ball Save Time" should only be available during Mainplay and scenes.
- (Pro) Captive Ball Bank. Sometimes the reset timer is not held properly. For instance while starting Storage Facility Multiball you can hear the timer running out "beep" and all the balls will be rejected. This does also happen in the Extra-Ball animation, starting Scenes and some more animations.
- (Pro) If Scenes and Tobins Spirit Guide are lit at the same time. Sometimes the Scene starts before TSG is awarded. The Scene music starts for 2-3 seconds before finally starting TSG after collecting the awards scene music starts again. Shouldn't TSG have priority above Scenes?
- (Pro) Grace Periods. There are actually a few bugs related to grace period fails. For instance, if a mode timed out without completing it and draining the ball while in grace period. The scene is not awarded correctly. Sometimes you'll have to re lite scenes in order to play it again.(Out timed scenes should be awarded, even if not 100% finished)
Another instance if "Back of Man!" or "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" timed out without completing it and shooting the ball up the main ramp while in grace period(just before Mode total and WKWS is lite message is displayed) both WKWS and one of the Scenes of the Ramp(We Got One, He Slimed me, The Ballroom) start at the same time. However this won't happen all the time. I guess it does only occur if you would be able to start another scene without doing Slimer first.
- PKE Mode weirdness under certain circumstances - See post 253 in this thread for a video link.

NOT A BUG, BUT NEEDS ATTENTION:
-----------------------------------------
- Software compensation needs to be added if the Ecto Goggles optos are broken on a Prem/LE. If the tech message recognizes there's a problem then the rollover in the back of that lane should count as an ecto hit. Currently if your EG's break, your players are SoL until you get it fixed.
- Software compensation needs to be added if the shooter lane switch is broken so it doesn't start the dog mode as soon as the ball is launched. If the shooter lane switch is broken it should ignore the switch at the top right of the playfield the FIRST time to get the ball in play.[PREMIUM]
- Bring back Magna Sling adjustment from 1.05 [PREMIUM]
- Let the Storage trap animation be SKIPPABLE WITH BOTH FLIPPER buttons! [PREMIUM]
- Mass hysteria flipper warning audio WAY too low. Callout, much louder effect, or special shaking cue rather than the whoosh would be better. [PREMIUM]
- Insert LEDs are too bright. Needs adjustment like Metallica to turn them down. [PREMIUM]
- Allow Trough kickout power to go even lower. At lowest setting ball kickout is still too hard. [PREMIUM]
- Auto launch power adjustment would be nice. [PREMIUM]
- Innermost lanes at slingshots still unused & serve no purpose, could be used to activate (after X hits) a "save ball" on the outlanes (as on ST pro), red inserts in the outlanes could than serve to show the saver is activated, only 1 side at the time, moving with slingshots [PREMIUM]
- Terror dog mini mode: why is this completed if you shoot for the right ramp? Yes, the right single Terror dog target is hard to aim/hit, but its the part of the game, its pinball, and while its hard to get, may be gave more points on just that target. Maybe 1/4 score for ramp, or full score for terror dog target? [PREMIUM]
- GHOST CHAMPION score would be a nice competitive score category to add. [PREMIUM/PRO]
- (Pro) Slimer sometimes does stupid things. This might be on purpose but im not sure. If I have Slimer mode going on in order to light scenes. He is normaly jumping up and down slightly(on the Pro) like he should be. But sometimes he moves a bit up(to the middle or upper position) and keeps jumping there for a short amount of time. The ball can't hit him in this position. I haven't found a way to recreate it. I checked the switches, they are working fine... My original Playfield and my new(non-ghosting) Playfield both had the same issue, so it must be related to the Software.

un·con·scion·a·ble

ADJECTIVE

* not right or reasonable.

* unreasonably excessive.

3+ years after taking your money is unconscionable.

What does this wall of text have to do with Stern?

Shoot the messenger all you like doesn't change pins having unfinished features and bugs as shipped and after being in the field for years.

We have a difference of opinion, its an unfinished product.. and Stern has a history of shipping unfinished products and fixing after.

Sometimes.

Thank you for your time, said my piece. It baffles me that people are good with this practice or at least.. flexible about it.