(Topic ID: 244823)

STERN should think about playing the LONG game!


By iceman44

38 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 149 posts
  • 54 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 28 days ago by JodyG
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 9 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    38E34250-8687-4DF6-9C17-6CBBAC0D758B (resized).jpeg
    Screen Shot 2019-06-12 at 9.43.38 AM (resized).png
    IMG_1216 (resized).JPG
    IMG_1220 (resized).JPG
    IMG_1221 (resized).JPG
    IMG_1215 (resized).JPG
    dougmackenzie01 (resized).jpg
    IMG_1660 (resized).PNG
    IMG_1999 (resized).JPG

    There are 149 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
    #51 37 days ago

    Skimmed through this and knowone mentioned pricing that I could see. I could get a new iron man from jjp in 2010 for 3800 plus shipping. Stern has just kept raising the prices to meet the market, not because it had to but why not ...that was till Wonka lowered the market on a prem pin to meet Sterns prem. Ok point being stern could lower their price point and keep chruning out good solid games. Basically flooding the home market and making their games even more appealing to the home buyers who at this point are half of new pin sales at the minimum. Other pin manufacturers exist because they can be profitable at 7 to 8k per game. Could they continue or get off the ground at 5k per game?

    #52 37 days ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    Their modular approach works best with a robust variety of game choices.

    if multimorphic could have actually produced a second traditional pinball game sometime in the last several years to swap with lexi rather than kiddie redemption type games, then p3 supporters could make a stronger case - but they havent.

    heres our revolutionary modular system. watch how easy it is to change from one pinball game to the next. oops, sorry. no can do because we still dont have a second traditional game available yet. kinda funny, but in reality, sorta serious.

    i have heard that gerry was told a while back by josh sharpe to shun the traditional pinball community, go with redemption type games, and try to sell his platform to the hundreds of chuck e cheeses. the direction he took a couple years ago is consistent with this advice. he presented games like cannon lagoon, barnyard, rocks, the pitch and bat, and head to head at TPF, but NO second traditional pinball. another two years later.. still no second customary style pinball offering. how is the traditional pinball community supposed to take a modular pinball platform seriously when in four plus years there still isnt anything conventional to swap for LLEE? even if they kept the exact upper mech, but programmed a rethemed graphics package and new rule set it would have at least showcased some flexibility of the platform. i dont find it too difficult to imagine the spaceship into something like a ferris wheel. p3 could have had their 'cosmic carnival' long ago.

    another problem, rarely discussed, is that once additional mechs and software are finally available and a p3 owner buys, for example, 4 more 'games' at the 'reduced' price of 2500 ea, he will then have $20K invested in his 'system'. should he look to off it, how big will the buyer base be for a $20K 'system' given many who can only afford single $5K machines?

    in a recent interview, gerry mentions that their second game release is finally on the horizon. he also gave the impression that its acceptance may be a make or break moment for the platform. hopefully they will continue to profit by selling boards to boutique manufacturers.

    #53 37 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You guys are really on to something here.
    Makes a lot of sense that the #1 pinball company - by far - should radically rethink their business model. I’m sure they are tired of making money and staying in business.
    And as players and collectors, I’m sure we’d all be better off if they took cues from their competition. They should start with eliminating whitewoods, abandoning popular licenses, and ending their troublesome practice of releasing numerous titles a year.

    You funny, bruh'.

    #54 37 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You guys are really on to something here.
    Makes a lot of sense that the #1 pinball company - by far - should radically rethink their business model. I’m sure they are tired of making money and staying in business.
    And as players and collectors, I’m sure we’d all be better off if they took cues from their competition. They should start with eliminating whitewoods, abandoning popular licenses, and ending their troublesome practice of releasing numerous titles a year.

    They should start with making innovative mechs(a black Knight that actually effing moves and interacts with the ball), stop trying to save 50 cents here and there on things like smaller brackets that don't keep the cabinets from splitting, "mono" targets instead of individual standup targets and their corresponding switches, and playfields that are slightly less softer than chewed bubblegum.

    The last NIB Stern I bought was TWD premium for mid $6k. I bought it 2 years after its initial release when Lyman finished the code. It has great code, is fairly solidly built, has a real effing bash toy, a really good layout, drop targets, etc. I still have fun playing it, so why would I spend an extra $1000 for a new premium that has lousy finished code, a cheesy lower playfield that uses a pachinko ball and toy flippers, and an underutilized LCD screen that adds nothing to the pinball experience?

    Stern will no longer get my business unless they change the course they are on.

    #55 37 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Sterns been doing this for 32 years bro.
    “Long game” LOL.
    Its a little early to be drinking.

    I respect you Levi for the time and effort you have invested into putting on a quality pinball tournament. I also enjoy your snarkiness. But you have got to stop chortling Gary Stern's and George Gomez's sweaty balls. It's ridiculous. You know they can and should do better. This is not about other pinball manufacturers.
    Edit: just looked you up on IFPA. Ranked 50th in the world. Pretty effing impressive dude.

    #56 37 days ago

    It’s all about having the exclusive, biggest, newest and bestest toy.

    The same Pinsiders will preorder anyway, but you know that and so does Stern.

    Why finish code when you can offer limited number LEs or place a $30 katana in a few randomly selected NIB games? Gimmicks seem to work.

    #57 37 days ago
    Quoted from Buzz:

    I would love to add a MET back in the house but after two bad playfields just on that one I'm just to afraid to try.

    Sorry, dude. That really sucks. What kinds of problems did you have with those playfields?

    I just picked up a NIB Met Prem from the last run. Knock on cheap plywood, it is great—except for some loose back panel nuts which made it impossible to lock the playfield until I finally figured it out. A couple of millimeters can ruin your whole day.

    #58 37 days ago

    Stern went cheap with NBA in 2009. They were bailed out at around that time and continued on their cost saving ways. Their cheapness (build quality, lack of playfield mechanics and ruleset quality) has caught up with them & I don't think their last few titles have sold well

    If Deeproot release 10 games at reveal, with different price points, that will be available for years, which have more innovative mechanics (which are cheaper to make) and software that is continually updated for years, they will have my business, its a no brainer

    #59 37 days ago
    Quoted from Silverbak:

    I don't think their last few titles have sold well

    Build quality, right? come on man. Stern is outselling everyone else combined. 3 pins a year and while they are problems ofcourse what manufacturer is making full proof pins right now. doesn't exist and never will.

    #60 37 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Sterns been doing this for 32 years bro.
    “Long game” LOL.
    Its a little early to be drinking.

    Harley has been making bikes for decades too, how they looking of late?

    You can chase the nostalgia market (Munsters, Beatles, Batman) for only so long before running out of buyers, you need to make some product for audience outside your prime demographic. Stern has with Deadpool, Metallica, Guardians of the Galaxy, Black Knight SOR, Star Trek (new) so I think they will be fine.

    I don't think I'd buy a new one though just based on reports from people waiting for code updates to make a game fully playable, inexcusable after paying several grand for a NIB pin. A better strategy is to pickup a used pin after the bugs have finally been squashed IMHO.

    11
    #61 37 days ago
    Quoted from Silverbak:

    Stern went cheap with NBA in 2009. They were bailed out at around that time and continued on their cost saving ways. Their cheapness (build quality, lack of playfield mechanics and ruleset quality) has caught up with them & I don't think their last few titles have sold well
    If Deeproot release 10 games at reveal, with different price points, that will be available for years, which have more innovative mechanics (which are cheaper to make) and software that is continually updated for years, they will have my business, its a no brainer

    I keep hearing about DR as if they are some kind of white knight to save us all from evil stern. Come on guys, no way DR will be able to produce 10 games, let alone one in any kind of mass production way. It’s not that easy. There’s a ton of deep talent and experience at JJP, Spooky and AP, don't you think they’d be doing it if they could. The stern pro, particularly in the secondary market is the best value out there. If you want luxury, you get JJP...AP and spooky fall somewhere in the middle and compete with stern Premiums. Personally, I have zero expectations for DR.

    #62 37 days ago

    Let's see if DR actually follows thru on its business plan. It is one thing to state a plan its another thing to follow through over several years. Having run several business's over the years it is hard to keep doing something if you make no additional money at it. Yes the customer always wants more (me included as a customer), but the supplier needs to keep income/revenue coming in the door to pay for the help. When people talk about a companies profits they look at the BOM for the product and add up what they believe it should be and say WOW, look at all the money this suppler is making. What they forget is the money invested in capital equipment, insurance, overheads like HR, advertising, legal, accounting, building costs, electricity, inventory, taxes,IT, etc. that needs to be covered by the sale. Staying in business is all about cash flow. it is a lot harder then people give credit for.

    I hope DR makes it big. Just like I hope Stern?JJP and all the suppliers stay in business.

    #63 37 days ago
    Quoted from Spelunk71:

    Sorry, dude. That really sucks. What kinds of problems did you have with those playfields?
    I just picked up a NIB Met Prem from the last run. Knock on cheap plywood, it is great—except for some loose back panel nuts which made it impossible to lock the playfield until I finally figured it out. A couple of millimeters can ruin your whole day.

    I had a bad MET playfield also, took 2 years for them to finally replace it. Will never buy another NIB stern, used second hand stern once code is done might be another story.

    #64 37 days ago
    Quoted from sulli10:

    What they forget is the money invested in capital equipment, insurance, overheads like HR, advertising, legal, accounting, building costs, electricity, inventory, taxes,IT, etc. that needs to be covered by the sale. Staying in business is all about cash flow. it is a lot harder then people give credit for.

    Don't forget the losses along the way; I had my own business for several years and there was stuff tried that just didn't pan out and was discarded which all cost time and money.

    I'm sure pinball is no different.

    #65 37 days ago
    Quoted from sulli10:

    Let's see if DR actually follows thru on its business plan. It is one thing to state a plan its another thing to follow through over several years. Having run several business's over the years it is hard to keep doing something if you make no additional money at it. Yes the customer always wants more (me included as a customer), but the supplier needs to keep income/revenue coming in the door to pay for the help. When people talk about a companies profits they look at the BOM for the product and add up what they believe it should be and say WOW, look at all the money this suppler is making. What they forget is the money invested in capital equipment, insurance, overheads like HR, advertising, legal, accounting, building costs, electricity, inventory, taxes,IT, etc. that needs to be covered by the sale. Staying in business is all about cash flow. it is a lot harder then people give credit for.
    I hope DR makes it big. Just like I hope Stern?JJP and all the suppliers stay in business.

    If DR have 10 pins on the line which continuously improve software wise they can keep churning them out for years. No need to invent a new pin every 3 months (which would cost a lot)

    Also look at todays pin mechanics which haven't changed for decades. Flippers fine leave as is but why couldn't a sling just be a small solenoid under the plastic that directly fires at the ball - avoiding all the brackets etc that currently exist and add to costs.

    #66 37 days ago

    How many new companies have you championed over the years Ice?

    Let's see if deep root can actually manufacture games before we give them one ounce of credit in the industry. And really, AP? Oktoberfest isn't selling at all. Those guys feel a little lost and on the verge of disaster a lot more then as competition to stern.

    #67 37 days ago
    Quoted from Spelunk71:

    Sorry, dude. That really sucks. What kinds of problems did you have with those playfields?
    I just picked up a NIB Met Prem from the last run. Knock on cheap plywood, it is great—except for some loose back panel nuts which made it impossible to lock the playfield until I finally figured it out. A couple of millimeters can ruin your whole day.

    My MET playfield chipped all around the sparky magnet. It took 2 years of constant tries to get it fixed. They sent me a new MET and GB playfield. I swapped them out and traded MET after 25 plays to an arcade. A year later it has a sunken circle around the magnet after a year or less. When your an operator they don't do anything to fix them.

    #68 37 days ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    Oktoberfest isn't selling at all.

    take off, doug bought one.

    dougmackenzie01 (resized).jpg
    #69 37 days ago

    They make affordable games with new shiny catchy themes that get people in the door. But if they fall apart it's to risky for me. At least anything but a playfield is fixable. I'm sure my 14k a year isn't causing any lost sleep.

    #70 37 days ago

    There are two types.

    Those that think of pinball companies like sports teams and cheer and defend them like sports fans regardless of performance often overlooking flaws and building them up.

    Then there are those that see that more can be done, that companies can do better, that more effort and better product are the way to more sales and success.

    I’m with ice - he’s simply trying to look outside the box and thinking forward and deserves some credit. The shills whose posts you can basically copy and paste from every other thread add nothing to this conversation. Catwoman BM66 release lately is even defended as a great effort for heaven’s sake. It’s embarrasing to me to one could have so little imagination that you can’t see to what extent they phoned that Catwoman version in - and then even praise it and buy it! Compare to Hulk avengers cab art from some years ago.

    All companies can do better. Let’s stop attacking even this principle.

    #71 37 days ago

    Stern is doing faaaaaar more right than wrong.
    The other companies are basically eating the leftover wallet scraps from Stern customers' pockets. They're fortunate that not all Stern customers have enough patience for new Stern releases that peak their interest and then are willing to give new companies a shot. Also, smaller companies are fortunate that most of their buyers are enthusiasts that'll weather and troubleshooting nightmares that may arise.

    #72 37 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You guys are really on to something here.
    Makes a lot of sense that the #1 pinball company - by far - should radically rethink their business model. I’m sure they are tired of making money and staying in business.
    And as players and collectors, I’m sure we’d all be better off if they took cues from their competition. They should start with eliminating whitewoods, abandoning popular licenses, and ending their troublesome practice of releasing numerous titles a year.

    Remember when Williams was #1

    #73 37 days ago
    Quoted from greenhornet:

    take off, doug bought one.

    Talk about a great theme, imagine if AP had done Strange Brew rather than Oktoberfest.

    #74 37 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Harley has been making bikes for decades too, how they looking of late?

    Market dominating although the major market is shrinking.

    #75 37 days ago
    Quoted from spinal:

    All companies can do better. Let’s stop attacking even this principle.

    Ofcourse they can but times are pretty fuckin good when it comes to pinball right now. Jesus I go from IrMd to BK3 to SW's and never for a minute think anything but greatness. Alot of people are getting what they like from JJP, AP and Spooky then theres remakes of classics with upgrades, NIB. come on I get the whole "do better" jive but sometimes it can come across like a starving person with a virginian ham under their arm complaining they don't have any bread. No idea where I got that but I'm sticking with it.

    #76 37 days ago

    Some people are giving Deeproot a lot more credit than they deserve, since the haven't come anywhere close to keeping a single promise they have made yet. But the do seem to have the time to manage to talk a lot of shit on successful companies like Stern. There are lot of things Stern can do better, but why bother when you are already printing money and their competitors continually shoot themselves in the foot? Quite a few route operators have pulled Oktoberfest off route due to the ramp shot and poor overall reliability.

    #78 37 days ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    Build quality, right? come on man. Stern is outselling everyone else combined. 3 pins a year and while they are problems ofcourse what manufacturer is making full proof pins right now. doesn't exist and never will.

    This...x1000!!!! I'm all for innovation and new machines from new companies, but the BS of Stern being the only one w quality issues is pure horseshit. At least there are actual games, released in multiples, every year to choose from.

    The "pie in the sky, best quality games ever, when we finally release them" crap has really, really gotten old. Free pass ( and even defensive posture from owners) for much more serious issues than lack of code is off the charts.

    If change, improvement to occur, it's not just Stern that is the root of all evil.

    I'm way w Ice for new blood...

    #79 37 days ago
    Quoted from kcZ:

    Market dominating although the major market is shrinking.

    What market are you referring too?

    Sales in the US are down almost 50% from a decade ago and HD closed their KS plant last year.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/01/30/harley-davidson-kansas-city-plant-motorcycle-sales-fall/1078008001/

    Sales have been sliding the last 4 years.

    11
    #80 37 days ago

    So many of you guys are just willing to keep paying higher prices NIB for the same old stuff

    People love to conveniently forget the lean times and it wasn’t that long ago

    It’s a simple thought process that could translate to more brand LOYALTY if they thought long range more.

    They don’t. I have no idea what DR will do or not but at least they will be another option that MIGHT be cheaper and provide a better long term experience

    That is what I’m looking for. That’s why I buy Lyman games. I could give a F who makes em

    I’ve bought more Stern games than most of you, and I’ve loved a lot of them

    I loved em a lot more when an AC/DC premium was $6200, $TWDLE was $7300, Metallica was less than that

    Maybe DR can create a Stern premium level game for $6k?

    Wtf is wrong with hoping and wanting for more you bunch of negative Nancy’s

    #81 36 days ago

    In a nutshell, like I said, if you maintain the mentality of well “GB and Munsters are selling well so we don’t need to improve the experience for you NIB buyers”...

    Then it’s a stupid short sighted business plan!

    That I hope everybody else takes advantage of

    Pinball buyers are so fickle. And shouldn’t be taken for granted

    #82 36 days ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    provide a better long term experience

    Ice I see where ur coming from, I can only speak for myself and I'm sure theres a few pinheads that think this way. I don't look at any pin as long term experience, maybe thats where ur issue lies and thats cool. I'm a pretty big Maiden fan, the OG stuff anyway but I know within a year and as long as something with a good theme comes up it will go, I will get tired of the gameplay. If they do make something that I see as a long term keeper even if its coded very well the theme is what will keep it there and no matter how much they add to code it will never curb my desire for new pins. I was into the Heighway style had it transpired where I could change the PF and trans without the whole new cab deal. I wish Stern would make a generic cab then for a lower price I could buy new PF's and swap but I never lose more than a grand on resale and for that year of enjoyment its well worth it. As for the "same old stuff" not sure what they could do without taking a serious risk of people hating the new direction. We all have seen what can happen when something unique comes along. A lot of fellas love the JJP games with all the little innovations but it didn't catapult JJP into the top dog and right now after all the pins I've owned spanning many manufacturers I have to say BK3 is probably my fav pin, one ramp, very simple layout but Damn. Anyway for whats it worth to other collectors once I went to a few pins and lost the keeper, collector, adding shit mentality that the hobby has taking a turn for the better. Not to say if I was a Texas oil millionaire I wouldn't have a big basement with 50 games, I would but I also wouldn't care one bit as to how much, code develpement etc. Shit I would keep them just to for the joy of turning on 50 pins and staring, not too menton all the cocaine and hookers. Probably better I'm not a Texas oil Millionaire. Well......

    #83 36 days ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    So many of you guys are just willing to keep paying higher prices NIB for the same old stuff

    I don't buy LEs so I'm still way behind you in throwing my monies at Stern

    Quoted from iceman44:

    Wtf is wrong with hoping and wanting for more you bunch of negative Nancy’s

    Nothing at all, and I'm right there with you; I'm just not putting any stock in DR until they actually do something. Or actually any of the other companies until they start making shit that interests me....and by interests me I mean a game that plays great. There are a few out there but not a ton.

    #84 36 days ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Or actually any of the other companies until they start making shit that interests me

    Yep, I now stay out of JJP, Spooky and AP threads as when I did go there and said anything u are labelled a Stern fanboy and a hater although I can't deny my comments weren't terrible most of the time, I would love a JJP pin or a Spooky, I almost bought Houdini and due to theme I was in on Predator and Alien. They simply haven't made anything that appeals to me but Stern? whatever u want to say about there "quality" (I guess I'm lucky because I really haven't had any issues) they know how to pick a theme and for my money make the funnest pinball machines out there. What DR games are planned anyway?

    Oh and Ice if I may ask, where did this come from? R U feeling burned on recent Stern purchase? Just curious.

    #85 36 days ago

    Stern is doing great. However, the market is entering a classic oversaturated state. JJP, I own two and they're a nice change of pace from others. Not better, not worse...different. Loads of personality in those. American Pinball, very mysterious as to whether or not they're making it, probably depends on their backers $$$ Spooky are playing by themselves in their own sandbox and doing fine, thanks. Own an ACNC and it's tough but in a large collection like mine it's fantastic to have and one of my better machines. Deeproot, who knows? They are certainly blowing lots of smoke but have lots of dough and talent. Joker's wild with those guys.

    If I'm Stern and I see this, I would be careful but confident. They might be releasing too many tables for a saturated market, but maybe the losses are part of their plan?

    Probably time for them to innovate/change a little but stay with what they're doing/work their connections...

    But I'm highly doubtful there's room for *all* these players to survive.

    #86 36 days ago

    At this point, Stern is the only manufacturer I would consider for NIB. The games are more fun and they just feel better. Which makes it all the more frustrating to see them go in the direction they have chosen. I like Black Knight, but I am not going to own one because I just can't get past the barren playfield combined with the lacking Black Knight toy. I really wish that instead of the upper playfield on the premium and LE, they spent that extra money on making The Knight awesome.

    Munsters pro was fun the first 50 games I played it, but the code has gotten stale quickly and the mono targets just piss me off. The lower playfield on the premium/LE is atrocious. Would have been nice if it used a full size pinball that traveled back and forth from main to lower playfield. There is something about a trapped pinball that doesn't travel between playfields that makes it no fun. I'm looking at you AC/DC and Congo.

    There are a lot of "what about" posts on this thread that to me are irrelevant. It's like politics. I don't care that the other pinball companies have their problems too. Pointing out their shortcomings is not going to make me overlook Sterns.

    #87 36 days ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    Remember when Williams was #1

    Remember when Stern got through those dark days of pinball and largely responsible for building it back up to what it is today? I don't think you guys are giving Stern enough credit. No one even comes close to competing with Stern and number of hit titles. I would like to see certain improvements and cheaper prices but I cannot argue with sales.

    #88 36 days ago

    Buy what you like. Last I checked DR sold nothing.

    #89 36 days ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:

    At this point, Stern is the only manufacturer I would consider for NIB. The games are more fun and they just feel better. Which makes it all the more frustrating to see them go in the direction they have chosen. I like Black Knight, but I am not going to own one because I just can't get past the barren playfield combined with the lacking Black Knight toy. I really wish that instead of the upper playfield on the premium and LE, they spent that extra money on making The Knight awesome.
    Munsters pro was fun the first 50 games I played it, but the code has gotten stale quickly and the mono targets just piss me off. The lower playfield on the premium/LE is atrocious. Would have been nice if it used a full size pinball that traveled back and forth from main to lower playfield. There is something about a trapped pinball that doesn't travel between playfields that makes it no fun. I'm looking at you AC/DC and Congo.
    There are a lot of "what about" posts on this thread that to me are irrelevant. It's like politics. I don't care that the other pinball companies have their problems too. Pointing out their shortcomings is not going to make me overlook Sterns.

    If you don't like mini pf's, you won't like Munsters..doesn't matter what it's coded like., or how many targets it has.

    If you do, it's one of the best out there...Stern made an effort, imho, and glad they did. A solidly built, fun machine., w a great theme..

    Frolic says it best..." Buy what you like".

    I'm much more sore at JJP than Stern at the moment, but doesn't rule out a future purchase.

    I'll be paying attention to what comes out, and choose what might be best for me. Choice is good

    #90 36 days ago
    Quoted from Swainer80:

    NOBODY, but some buttheaded exec, wanted P2k. Nobody.

    Quite simply, wrong.

    #91 36 days ago

    P2K to players was a total fucking disaster; the worst of the worst.
    If they had diff'rent titles I would have like to have seen the reception though.

    #92 36 days ago

    Let’s not get into pin2k. Let’s just all agree that it was awful. Just awful.

    #93 36 days ago

    Look at Stern’s lineup on their website. Nobody can touch their themes. It they’d only give us a few more toys, but what they do give is fun. No other companies machines play as well or are as much fun.

    Like hearing BK3 is enjoyable, even though it’s not my kind of theme.

    Theme’s in the end are what seem to matter most, on a decision of whether to buy or not. Stern’s got that locked up over everyone else. Hoping they add show series theme code to Munsters and it’ll become a classic. It already is a great playing table.

    13
    #94 36 days ago
    Quoted from jcg9998:

    The same could be said for Gottlieb. They did it for 45 years and were by far the dominant pinball company for most of those years.

    I keep seeing apples and oranges fallacies in this thread, but at least yours is pinball-related so I'll take a bite:

    Gottlieb lost their crown due to not only their incompetence in entering the Solid State era, but due to the competing efforts of two other companies, Bally and Williams, that had been around just as long as they had. PINBALL COMPANIES, with the same types of talent, experience, manufacturing and distribution infrastructure, and market share. This has almost zero to do with the flawed analogy you flippantly throw out there.

    The premise of this thread is that "Gottlieb," (Stern), is in mortal danger of fading away due to the unproven efforts of tiny boutique companies, some of who do not actually exist yet, and none of whom have anywhere close to the talent, experience, infrastructure, or market share boasted by Stern. It's an absolutely LAUGHABLE analogy to try to make, to compare Gottlieb and its competitors in 1978 to Stern to and its competitors in 2019.

    You guys so DESPERATELY want to believe that there's SOMEBODY out there who will make a pinball machine that isn't actually pinball, and is so innovative it will give people a reason who don't like pinball to like pinball, and will give you, who are obviously tired of pinball, a reason to like pinball again. I don't really understand it, but then this place gets weirder every day.

    "My guests ALWAYS go to Star Wars Episode One first!" is a great rallying cry to get people at your Super Bowl party to check out your pinball collection for 5 minutes but it's not going to unseat Stern.

    #95 36 days ago
    Quoted from vicjw66:I really wish that instead of the upper playfield on the premium and LE, they spent that extra money on making The Knight awesome.

    Most people think that the Knight toy IS awesome, even if they don't like the game.

    #96 35 days ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    Remember when Stern got through those dark days of pinball and largely responsible for building it back up to what it is today? I don't think you guys are giving Stern enough credit. No one even comes close to competing with Stern and number of hit titles. I would like to see certain improvements and cheaper prices but I cannot argue with sales.

    Yep I remember buying Avatar when no one else would buy it.

    I just mentioned Williams because they were #1 and things changed. Doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen to Stern at some point.

    #97 35 days ago

    At this point I want DR to be spectacularly successful just to spite Levi

    #98 35 days ago
    Quoted from guymontag451:

    Most people think that the Knight toy IS awesome, even if they don't like the game.

    What, did you take a poll? Most people that I have talked to think the Knight is lacking. He doesn’t move at all. He has a lousy standup target in front of him instead of being a true bash toy. His weapon and shield are not attached to his arms but just kinda there.

    They should have used resources to make him move in some way. Head left to right, body back and forth like well walker, etc. The Black Knight is lame. With how empty the game is and such a cheap license, the BOM has got to be the cheapest of any modern Stern by far. The Knight should have rivaled the MM castle as far as complexity and fun factor. Instead it rivals tie fighter on a spring.

    #99 35 days ago

    Throw the cost CALCULATOR in the F ing garbage can!

    Make a game the way the game designer imagined it, with ALL the bells and whistles, then integrate the code, sound and animations.

    After that, THEN put your profit margin on it and sell it at whatever price that is.

    Quit trying to squeeze EVERY DIME of profit out of an $8900 LE no matter what the title is or what's in it.

    If you can make the same margin at $8200 on a BKLE then sell it for that (no license fees)

    You want to put in shallow shitty code, charge for it that way based on your input.

    If you load up a game like the designer wants and the same "margin" requires a price of $9600 for the LE? Then give it to us! Do more, charge more, same margins.

    It's absurd to now price every single F ing game the exact same, time and time again, gonna get the same or similar results!

    It's not just Stern, now JJP is doing it. DI, POTC and WONKA are the same price, yet the "margins" are bigger on WONKA, hmmm, wonder why?

    #100 35 days ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    It's not just Stern, now JJP is doing it. DI, POTC and WONKA are the same price, yet the "margins" are bigger on WONKA, hmmm, wonder why?

    Because JJP has never made money and has lost millions of dollars?

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    £ 89.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    PinballToys
    $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Flip N Out Pinball
    From: $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Great American Pinball
    From: $ 25.00
    Various Other Swag
    Shoot Again Pinball
    $ 129.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    $ 45.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Sparky Pinball
    $ 16.00
    Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 29.95
    Gameroom - Decorations
    ULEKstore
    $ 7,395.00
    Pinball Machine
    Great American Pinball
    $ 29.04
    Playfield - Plastics
    F14 Tomcat Slingshots Out of stock
    Pinball-Mods.com
    $ 94.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    From: $ 6.95
    Cabinet - Other
    Pinball Wheezer
    $ 24.00
    $ 269.00
    Cabinet - Other
    PinGraffix Pinside Shop
    $ 25.00
    Apparel - Unisex
    Project Pinball Charity
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 399.99
    Cabinet - Toppers
    Great American Pinball
    $ 9.99
    From: $ 209.99
    Lighting - Led
    Comet Pinball
    $ 269.00
    Displays
    Boston Pinball Company
    $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 7,999.00
    Pinball Machine
    Classic Game Rooms
    $ 13.00
    Electronics
    Yorktown Parts and Equip
    $ 999.00
    Pinball Machine
    Mircoplayfields
    There are 149 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside