I agree they owe it to us customers to fix/complete the code on both models. The biggest opportunity to take the game to the next level is to figure out a way to integrate completed Heros to make your shots have increased damage on villains. It fits the theme perfectly and would make villain wizard mode more accessible.

We also need some better rewards for combos stacking and or save villain progression. Much work to do I hope the team that created X-Men don't leave us hanging. If they do, I like you will likely lose interest in buying new pins from them. Moved to 'Stern Pinball' sub-forum.

Supposedly a big update is due out by Christmas. Doubt avengers will be out before that.

Sure they care. Unfortunately some of their programers arent as good as others so some of the game play is lacking in certain aspects. Those that bought Xmen (myself included) were let down by this.

Agree. Important that Stern listens. Otherwise why take the risk buying a pin until code is finished??

Because if you don't they feel someone else will.

I have been thinking about getting one of these for a few weeks, and want to like it because the pf design looks good, but all the speculation and hopes of a code update has made the market weak for this title. Given past history for code updates (of lack thereof), and seeing xmen LE come up for sale regularly, I am not convinced yet to make a 6500 bet that it won't tank like TF LE.

...then buy the PRO ... it's just as much fun and you have another 2k+ left for another game...

I was tempted to buy a X-men LE and find a home for it on location (comic book store? etc...) and am sooooo glad I did not do this.

I have operated vids in the past and know what is involved (insurance, licenses for the machine, dealing with damage/attempted or successul break-ins etc...).

Based upon all the issues with this game (mechanical, hardware (frying aux. boards hooray!) and software) I am glad I stayed faaaaaar away.
I can't imagine the location would still be happy having my game there after weeks of downtime. It is just ridiculous.

Can't say what will happen in the future but for me XM LE is in a different league to Transformers......

Yeah, seriously. X-Men w/ its current code is better than TF in almost every respect. Art, shots, features, modes, dots, physical design (TF's friggin' LAUNCH LANE design is broken lol). Yeah, the early code issues are a bummer, but this same thing happens with every new Stern. When AC/DC came out, the bell magnet did nothing, the color changing inserts did nothing, etc. When Tron came out people yawned. When IM came out, people laughed at it. A pin needs a good year or so to marinate before we can put controversies and criticisms to bed.

X-Men's update will be here in a month or two. Avengers won't be out till next year...but I agree w/ the OP. I'm being patient w/ X-Men cuz i own it so - why not lol...no reason to join the sheepy lemming psychology and jump off the cliff with it....but pulling the trigger on Avengers before playing it or seeing what the game is like is not gonna happen.

Well, from peraonal experience - It took 2 titles for me to realize not to buy any nib stern until its finished. Do not fall into the distributor hype of feeling like you must buy preorder. Wait 6+ mos after a pin is released before banking a decision on a 6k+ machine. Of the last 3 sterns, ACDC was my best experience, and I followed the 6 mos rule and guess what, no cannon issues, no foggy pf issues, and no software issues.

My advice to the OP and others on the fence of buying nib; be patient. It does help to have a multiple pin lineup; and if your only going to own 1 pin, do not make it brand spanking new, buy a finished pin....it can still be nib, but wait for the guinea pigs to break in the bugs and software issues.

And for what it's worth. TFLE > XMLE in their current software states.

I dont get why the stress. They have announced code updates for AC/DC, TRON, Xmen and even TFLE which was forgotten...so we thought. Thats says a lot about Stern in my book.
Updates will hit. I think Stern has figured out this is a market worth making happy.

Is there any difference between announcing and actually getting ?

If not then they should do the update for my WOF before anything else.

LTG

Agreed. Just because it's announced, shouldn't be a reason to buy. They announced a powerpack for TF in the past, and it was everything but 'power'. I wouldn't hold your breath on 'announced' software updates. Though, one could argue something is better than nothing.

LTG,
sorry about WOF. Not looking good.

Though, that wait and see approach would've cost you quite a bit for a Tron LE.

And if it never gets done, it could cost you a lot less.

LTG

Me too. When ever I've thought of getting a new Stern pin, that little alarm goes off and reminds me money is better spent elsewhere.

LTG

Something about what some people are saying that does not make sense to me. Yes, the X-Men could use another code update, but why everyone want a rush rush job on it? I thought the $7200 I paid for my X-Men LE was a bit high, but the enjoyment I have out of my new machine basically paid for it! I would rather have Stern take their time and give me a decent code update than a "rush rush" code update. After touring their factory, any dobut I had about the quality of their machines was gone.

I can't see the stress either.

What's wrong with the Xmen software? Why is it that somehow people think it is so bad that the machine is dropping in price?

Sure, it is too hard for most players. I haven't reached "danger room" yet on factory 3 ball settings but I have been one hero away a few times.

The problem with threads like this is that people read them and think Xmen is somehow broken. It's not. It may not be the way you want it ... That doesn't mean it is broken.

Dave.

How much time do you need and why was it released so incomplete? It is a very high cost luxury item it is not unreasonable to expect the code be completed 5 to 6 months after release IMO. It also negatively affects the machines re-sale value to have incomplete code should it need to be sold for some reason. Unfinished code is a liability to a home owner Stern should commit themselves to releasing pins with more polished code and completing the code soon there after (at least within 6 to 7 months).

While I agree it is a very fun pin RotoDave (one of my favorite) I would disagree the software is complete. The great layout, custom art, custom dots, and features right now are carrying this pin IMO. The game is wickedly fun as is now but the opportunity for it to reach it's full potential as with any pin is dependent on having completed code. That is why programmers like Lyman Sheats and Keith Johnson are so loved by the community they finish the code to help pins reach their full potential.

Great post; agreed.

Why is everyone still presenting stern games as a huge risk whether or not you'll get finished code? It seems to me that they finish the game codes but it is a bit slow. Xmen is a good game as it stands now. I'm glad I have mind even if it stops being updated. It was awful on v1.1. TFLE may be a disappointment but the code was completed. Tron is very complete and feels polished. Acdc was great before the last update and really stepped up a notch since the last update. If acdc is never touched again I'm glad I own it. Spiderman and 24 got updates well past a year later and are complete. WoF is the only bummer in their whole library. Is WoF really the driving factor behind all this fear? Or is everyone wishing that stern held xmen and still hadn't released the game until now?

This is par for the course with Stern. Early code is horrible. Like others stated, since WOF code debackle I'm hesitent on picking up anything that hasnt had a few code revisions.

Having played more XM it is a ton of fun but the villians are too hard for sure.

If they can balance the rules in the way IM does, everyone will want the LE's in a year's time!

Technology is ALWAYS released imcomplete. Yes, the price is high for the machine, but I can say that about a million different products out there that are over priced and have a million bugs in it. Not to get off topic, but name a product where the price was high that didnt need so many updates?

That's a good idea, I like it.

Beyond that, what's the main complaint with the code? I've seen people talk about stacking. Maybe the above is an example of stacking, but I don't think that's what people are referring to. Do you want to focus on more than one hero at a time? Is it necessary that every game be able to do that? Sometimes I like a game that makes you focus on one particular task, not just starting them and accidentally completing them because every shot does something..

Maybe it's me, but I thought the game was fun, as is. It could probably use a few tweaks, but I haven't found any glaring problems.

I should also note I'm not very good; so it's not like I really got that far, either.

I don't disagree, just saying if there is a personal must-have killer theme you've been wanting to buy NIB then it's not so cut and dry to wait.

I thought that update for it is coming in December ?

LTG

IJ 4 too.

LTG

Because something may get a future update doesn't mean that its current code is not complete. I see nothing wrong with stern taking existing game code that's complete and adding more features to it or changing the rules to improve it. Do you? In the case of TFLE they are addressing community distaste for the current rules. That's different than completing an incomplete game.

I considered WoF and ij4 to be lesser games made during sterns cheapening times. Maybe that's wrong. And I agree it's no excuse for the code to not be complete. But that's not the path stern is taking now. They are completing game code on all their current games. The only issue is early adopters are stuck with often pretty crappy initial releases.

I agree it is one of my favorite pins as it is but the code needs work IMO. Dark Phoenix as code currently stands is unreachable by anyone with the glass on IMO. Having completed Hero's help your hit shots inflict more damage on villains would definitely help make it attainable and more fun IMO. So if focusing only on score (like in a tournament or at a league) the game currently encourages you to ignore and even time out the villains and focus solely on completing the good guys (much easier to get complete than villains) and reaching danger room.

The villains are very fun to play and have great sound and dots on them there needs to be more encouragement scoring wise to play and complete them IMO. If your going to make multi-balls like hellfire and brotherhood so risky by requiring so many hits while no modes are running (which is not often) then the scoring in those modes should be pretty high IMO. Stacking modes allows you to start one mode while another is running helping you score more with your shots and complete more modes. That is not a necessity if they implement completed Hero increased damage and or saving villain progression (damage you inflict). But many pinheads do love stackable modes. Currently hitting hard combo shots do not really provide much scoring benefit (multiplier wise)which is a bit of a disappointment. And currently there is no Dead Pool mode implemented that is in the options indicating such a mode should exist. Sorry for the long response but you did ask.

IJ4 maybe not WOF. And when I bought WOF we were told it would get updated. Not cool to not get it then.

LTG

I Thought they were addressing what Gomez said at Expo last year would all be in the game, and then wasn't ?

LTG

Xmen is still a good example. I would rather have had it and played it and get updates then have waited.

Xmen is certainly fun. But it needs a bit more than a few tweaks IMO. Combos and bonus multipliers are must adds, and basic elements of any game. No Deadpool mode. Hits to HF and BH targets need to be enabled, especially in 1 ball modes.

Tweaks also need to be implimented. Better voice for Beast. Consistent sound for ball side drains. Fix sound call outs when modes not completed. Etc.

Stacking heros with villians (at least one each) would be nice IMO. Also, villain mode save progression option would help a lot.

The code as it sits will hold me over just fine until the next update. I'm more concerned that they get the Aux board issue resolved. It's a serious problem that needs their full attention. I'm on my 4th board...Hopefully the modified boards they are testing get released in the next couple of weeks.

I have to agree 100% with that statement.

This is spot on

Good summary. I see a lot of people complaining that the villains are difficult. I think the increased damage from Heroes would really make sense, and add some more strategy. Hopefully Stern is on the same page.

I find the HF and BH target "non hits" in modes really frustrating. Only actually played HF once - loved it by the way. I admit I am a shitty player, but there is no point to make them that hard to reach.

well the wording here needs to be wrote as X-men needing additonal tweaks..To be honest, the way everyone is posting it is that the x-men machine is not worth the money, but yet people state it as one of their favorite games? LOL, Which is it??

For me, its a really good game as is, with the potential to be a great one. A lot of us see that potential and are excited.

Clearly the code is not finished yet as the settings clearly note (combos, deadpool, etc).

If you are referring to me please do not put words in my mouth I never said it was not worth the money. The gameplay, layout, art, and dots are awesome and fun to play but code needs to be tweaked/finished what is so hard for you to understand about that?

Software updates can't add transforming toys etc. So no.

Stacking just makes the game more balanced and makes it less of a slog to progress. Once you start a villian, you're trapped in a very difficult and long mode and everything else (except Magneto Multiball) is shut off. Not only that, if you fail - you can't start it again where you left off ...this unbalanced gameplay is making people not like the Villian modes. So - if the Villains required less hits OR had restart progression save AND you could start and play Hero modes while in a Villian...that would make the game more fun, lively, and balanced.

As for other things that need to be (and will be) fixed in the update:
-The ice ramp movement and timing is messed up in various ways
-The ball lock release timing needs settings as steeper games can release more than one ball by accident
-The spinning disc/magnet doesn't perform as intended (it lets the balls go too early at Multiball start rather than holding and spinning them for a good show like Twister)
-Wolverine's magnet isn't always pulsing and grabbing as it should

I go back and forth on that one. There's SO much content in X-Men...there might be some merit to having a few things to really TRY for (aiming intentionally at the targets) ...however, I think those targets should have some purpose during modes. If it's not to qualify the MB's, maybe something else would be good...sometimes they're use during Xavier's "find the mutant" mode....so, that's a start.

As long as they stay in business and/or no changes in ownership, etc. I'd hate to be owning the last NIB they make with incomplete code. Though that didn't seem to hurt CC's appeal too much.