(Topic ID: 299785)

Stern's price increases may be pushing me out of this hobby

By jorant

43 days ago


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  • Latest reply 18 days ago by fooflighter
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    There are 383 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 8.
    #251 38 days ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Sell it bro. I am currently piecing out my collection (sorry all my TG and Saturn stuff is long gone, hot market) and its nice to let go. Part of me wants to hold onto things but every time I sell a piece that was really special to me it only stings until its sold, and then I feel fine. I'm sure one day I'll be kind of sad I sold all the stuff but when you have an entire room dedicated to NES/SNES/Genesis ect, and you never use any of it, whats the point? Ideally I'll use the money to buy more pins. Its a lot easier and more convenient to sell a couple pins than hundreds or thousands of games, I can tell you that much.

    I kind of wish a kept a few things over the years but that kind of stuff just sits in boxes in closets. I sold a bunch of old collectibles earlier this year. Felt great to clear out piles of stuff and get good money in return.

    #252 38 days ago
    Quoted from rai:

    I was watching a YouTube video about the chip shortage. It was talking about the auto industry but it should be similar for pinball.

    It is probably very similar. None of the authorized distributors of the MPU used in Spike 2 have it in stock, for example:

    https://octopart.com/mcimx6u5dvm10ac-nxp+semiconductors-70303369?r=sp

    #253 38 days ago

    If these crazy prices keep going higher I’m gonna sell my entire collection and retire to the islands.

    #254 38 days ago

    What is the new LE price?

    #255 38 days ago

    Every one of these arguments and positions have been going on for 20 years every time anybody has a price increase. For those of us who have been around these forums that long its like groundhog day.

    But we always have new people coming into the hobby no matter what the price range, and we all manage to survive.

    #256 38 days ago

    Legit question for jorant: Are the rising prices of NIB and used games impacting your love for pinball in general or just your ability to buy games? This is a big difference. As others have said, you have a nice collection of games already and there are lots of ways to enjoy the hobby, regardless of number of games that you own (location play, league, etc). I know that some people are compelled to buy games, flip em, etc. but others just want to play. Hell, some people just want to fix games and don't play them. Where do you fit on this spectrum?

    #257 38 days ago
    Quoted from NPO:

    OR.............. get rid of the stupid Pro and LE and go back to the way it was: one model with ALL the toys for everyone... this "I need all the special snowflake games in my gameroom" crap is one of the reasons we even have this tier system.

    So you want stern to go out of business?

    A factory needs to churn. The reason they do the 3 tiers is so they have guaranteed sales before anyone even plays it. If the LE sells out, and no one even buys a Prem or Pro, they’ve broken even and made profit. The rest is gravy. A pinball company that doenst leverage this marketing doesn’t sell games, as buyers will just “wait and see” …and while they’re waiting and seeing, they lose interest anyway. There’s a reason American Pinball hasn’t sold shit, and Stern churns.

    20
    #258 38 days ago
    Quoted from mamawaldee:

    I have a pretty good PC Engine/TG16 library and lots of hardware. Same for Sega Saturn.
    Sometimes its tempting to sell, but I know I would miss it, even if I dont use it.

    I sold my large collection of games a few years ago and never looked back, the money was just too ridiculous. I only kept the consoles themselves which are fairly cheap anyways, and each one has some form of flash cart setup to play games from sd card. Yeah it's a leap to sell them but honestly after a while it's just no big deal. Playing games of sd card is actually better anyways especially with cd based games as no worries about read errors and games load quicker.

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    #259 38 days ago
    Quoted from Reality_Studio:

    I sold my large collection of games a few years ago and never looked back, the money was just too ridiculous. I only kept the consoles themselves which are fairly cheap anyways, and each one has some form of flash cart setup to play games from sd card. Yeah it's a leap to sell them but honestly after a while it's just no big deal. Playing games of sd card is actually better anyways especially with cd based games as no worries about read errors and games load quicker.
    [quoted image]

    Nice collection! why is your SNES turned sideways? The front sticks off the shelf too far?

    #260 38 days ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    Nice collection! why is your SNES turned sideways? The front sticks off the shelf too far?

    Yup, it doesn't fit otherwise.

    -2
    #261 37 days ago

    Suppose I took it too far off topic hence the down votes? Post deleted.

    #262 37 days ago
    Quoted from Ty-Arnold:

    Stern is making CGC, American Pinball, and especially Spooky, look like a better deal. Unless they come out with something unbelievable, I'm DONE with Stern for now. Other companies are offering a better deal bottom line.

    Emphasis on the look and not so much on the play.

    #263 37 days ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    as buyers will just “wait and see”

    YES. That would be well welcomed in a community that buys these games sight unseen without a single photo to go on while the prices keep going nowhere but up....YES. It sure would be nice if buyers slowed TF down and stopped making it so obvious they cannot wait, enabling the manufacturers to keep jacking prices up.

    #264 37 days ago
    Quoted from hoby1:

    If these crazy prices keep going higher I’m gonna sell my entire collection and retire to the islands.

    I have honestly thought of selling everything to. I would make a sheet ton but it would take 2x sheet ton to get back in the game...

    #265 37 days ago
    Quoted from chad:

    I have honestly thought of selling everything to. I would make a sheet ton but it would take 2x sheet ton to get back in the game...

    Pinball is becoming the stock market where transactions weigh 250 lbs and require heavy lifting. sell now. Put the money in low-medium risk investments for a year or two and get back in once prices stabilize or drop OR when the cash you’ve held onto gains some value in the market. These games - especially stuff like stern games from the last 5-10 years should absolutely not be appreciating at all with some very rare exceptions. This is just a hype and stupidity cocktail blurring vision and ramping up prices. It will stall. The older and truly collectible stuff will probably chart its own course but buyer beware at these prices. At some point you will be the last idiot in line with no one to sell your game to at an inflated price. Someone always had to take the hit at some point. Don’t be caught standing when the music stops.

    #266 37 days ago

    I definitely agree that the price increases are getting out of hand. On top of that, you then have people reselling them at even higher prices with many people willing to pay. Sooner or later it will hit a price point where demand will drop. However, as I have heard from many long time pinsiders, this has been said over and over again for the better part of a decade. Yet, prices keep increasing. It is very similar to the wakeboard/wakesurf boats - price increases are crazy. I have a 2013 Nautique G23 that I can sell today for close to what I paid for it since new ones are twice what they were just 8 years ago. INSANE!

    Further complicating things, I believe many have expectations that they will make money off of pinball and that they are investments. What keeps me grounded is that I came back into pinball 5 years ago "knowing" that I would lose some money on every machine. I am buying them so I can play and enjoy them in my home environment. If I play 1000 games on a machine and "lose" 1K or so on it, I have already expected that. It was the cost of enjoying it for however long I had the machine.

    Much to my surprise, over 5 years, I really haven't lost money due to the ever increasing prices. I wasn't expecting to break even or make money, but that is what the market is dictating. Sooner or later, that won't be the case and I will be OK with it. However, those that are buying at crazy inflated prices, that is a completely other story. There is a Pirates LE for sale near me for 21.5K! Another one in the market for 27K. For an LE, not a CE. I have to imagine that if they sell at that value, when rational thought re-enters the picture, a lot of money will be lost. Time will tell.

    #267 37 days ago
    Quoted from wolverinetuner:

    EMs are a lot of fun, and they’re a LOT easier on the budget.

    Agreed, Gottlieb System 1s are still affordable as well. So many people equate pinball only with the latest newest pins. If you can fix ems this hobby is very affordable. If you can't, by System 1s and put in all in one board.

    #268 37 days ago
    Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

    Boom. Ultraman is paid for.

    That's pretty much the plan. I'm selling all the games, Iron Man, and Demolition Man.... paying for a new HVAC and Ultraman....

    I'm at that point in my life where stuff is just STUFF, and I'm tired of looking at all the clutter and crap that I never use. Is it memories? Sure....but I don't need the physical objects to have the memories. It's all been sitting on shelves in my closet for a DECADE and not used. It doesn't bring me joy, to borrow an overrused phrase. It just takes up space.

    Quoted from zarco:

    spend many kilo-bucks on NIB pins is beyond me.

    Really? How many different Ultraman games have there been at this point? I've lost count, apparently. The last NIB I bought was AC/DC premium, or Metallica pro...I can't remember what order they came out in.

    #269 37 days ago

    Prices seem to be affecting everyone. 1up keeps raising their prices, PB just increased their prices. I work in manufacturing and it's just sad reality right now everything keeps going up in prices because of materials and the increase in global shipping costs. It's a huge mess and don't be surprised if we see another round of price increases in the industry early next year

    For pinballs more than anything I would think shipping is gonna be killing people. A container of pins is pretty bad for space conservation, each unit has to be on a pallet with nothing on top, so only so many can fit on a typical 40' container. Shipping a container has more than tripled. These aren't cheap products that easily can be stacked and jammed into shipping crates to save on money. And even if not overseas, domestic shipping has gone up double in some places.

    #270 37 days ago
    Quoted from zarco:

    Is there that big of a difference between a brand new game than an older one (early SS or even EM)? Not in my opinion.

    In my opinion the difference is huge. I’m a big fan of older games. I’ve always owned new and old. I have EMs, Solid State, 90s, and modern games. And I play them all. Buy really, the modern games are more engaging when I’m playing alone. Older games are more fun to compete on. The extra cost for the new stuff has always been worth it… until a few price increases ago. I stopped buying NIB games because of space and price. If there is a great game I like, I’ll just wait and get it HUO, or not at all. No big deal.

    #271 36 days ago
    Quoted from Insanity199:

    I definitely agree that the price increases are getting out of hand. On top of that, you then have people reselling them at even higher prices with many people willing to pay.

    How is Stern's price increase getting out of hand?

    Quoted from Insanity199:

    On top of that, you then have people reselling them at even higher prices with many people willing to pay.

    How are they selling the machine is people arent willing to pay the higher prices? If a company increases their cost shouldnt the cost of the resale reflect that assuming people are willing to pay it? We arent talking about a $30,000 POTC in this case.

    #272 36 days ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    So you want stern to go out of business?
    There’s a reason American Pinball hasn’t sold shit, and Stern churns.

    There are many reasons American Pinball doesnt sell well but to be fair i heard they have sold out of their 500 Hot Wheels at this point.

    #273 36 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerKraken:

    Prices seem to be affecting everyone. 1up keeps raising their prices

    I didnt know the cost of trash has gone up

    #274 36 days ago
    Quoted from Blindseer:

    There are many reasons American Pinball doesnt sell well but to be fair i heard they have sold out of their 500 Hot Wheels at this point.

    lol...

    I can't put my finger on it why I don't enjoy American Pinball games. I have not played Houdini much, but Hot Wheels and Octoberfest seemed boring to me.

    #275 36 days ago

    Have we had any official update on how much the price increase is? my distributor was to get back to me on Thursday but has not yet.

    #276 36 days ago
    Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

    Have we had any official update on how much the price increase is? my distributor was to get back to me on Thursday but has not yet.

    Again, I've heard 600, 1000 and 1000. I guess we will know soon.

    #277 36 days ago
    Quoted from jorant:

    Again, I've heard 600, 1000 and 1000. I guess we will know soon.

    You’re still here? I had heard you were leaving the hobby

    #278 36 days ago
    Quoted from DaveH:

    You’re still here? I had heard you were leaving the hobby

    Believe me, I'm slowly culling the herd.

    #279 36 days ago

    In my experience at least the people who leave the hobby, or at least stop buying games, don't spend a lot of time talking about it. They just do it.

    -1
    #280 36 days ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    Lol.. I knew my comment would get downvoted.
    Typical entitled attitude. Like you somehow deserve to have whatever you want and anyone who says otherwise is being "mean" or a "hater".
    Cant afford current prices? go out and earn more money and stop bitching.
    Pinball is a luxury item and they have been overpriced for years. Dont like the prices? dont buy them.
    I went from having 20 or so games to just a few because prices went way up so I stopped buying them even though I can "afford" whatever I want.

    did you know your follow up would get downvoted too? Newsflash: i bet this streak continues............

    #281 36 days ago

    So if I had an order already placed, what are the chances I have to chip in the extra? Especially if the game isn’t on the line till next year. The people who had order in when Elvira went up had to pay… so I’m guessing yes?

    #282 36 days ago
    Quoted from Blindseer:

    How is Stern's price increase getting out of hand?

    How are they selling the machine is people arent willing to pay the higher prices? If a company increases their cost shouldnt the cost of the resale reflect that assuming people are willing to pay it? We arent talking about a $30,000 POTC in this case.

    I never said Sterns prices specifically but I guess that can be assumed by the thread title. Price increases have been generally a couple hundred per year, now we are seeing upwards to 1k increase in a year. Jersey jack raised GnR LE 1k shortly after launch. Now Stern is rumored to raise LEs and potentially premiums by 1k. This is after an increase at the start of the year.

    People are willing to pay - at least enough of them. LEs have always been marked up on the secondary market but now we are seeing them marked up by distributors. I agree that manufacturing costs are going up. But if a Mando Premium goes from 7799 now to 8799 in a month, it is not due to a 1k increase in BOM and labor.

    We don’t have to agree, I feel a lot of people are now being priced out of the market. I also wonder how operators will affected. Can only imagine it then translates to higher prices at locations.

    I guess we will see how it all shakes out.

    #283 36 days ago
    Quoted from Insanity199:

    I definitely agree that the price increases are getting out of hand. On top of that, you then have people reselling them at even higher prices with many people willing to pay. Sooner or later it will hit a price point where demand will drop. However, as I have heard from many long time pinsiders, this has been said over and over again for the better part of a decade. Yet, prices keep increasing. It is very similar to the wakeboard/wakesurf boats - price increases are crazy. I have a 2013 Nautique G23 that I can sell today for close to what I paid for it since new ones are twice what they were just 8 years ago. INSANE!
    Further complicating things, I believe many have expectations that they will make money off of pinball and that they are investments. What keeps me grounded is that I came back into pinball 5 years ago "knowing" that I would lose some money on every machine. I am buying them so I can play and enjoy them in my home environment. If I play 1000 games on a machine and "lose" 1K or so on it, I have already expected that. It was the cost of enjoying it for however long I had the machine.
    Much to my surprise, over 5 years, I really haven't lost money due to the ever increasing prices. I wasn't expecting to break even or make money, but that is what the market is dictating. Sooner or later, that won't be the case and I will be OK with it. However, those that are buying at crazy inflated prices, that is a completely other story. There is a Pirates LE for sale near me for 21.5K! Another one in the market for 27K. For an LE, not a CE. I have to imagine that if they sell at that value, when rational thought re-enters the picture, a lot of money will be lost. Time will tell.

    Not placing blame, but yes, prices were slowly increasing up to about 2014 or so, then when JJP started with dramatic increases Stern followed suit, except without any real added BOM from Stern. Rollercoaster just went up from there at a dramatic increase of $500 more per new release. Both companies on a path to find the ceiling. Pandemic really pushed things from there into overdrive after dust settled with free unemployment monies printing out en masse.

    Now it's just gone to full Ludicrious speed. Still no ceiling. Never thought I'd see it get this crazy. Not just with pinball but everything. When food and fuel go price crazy we will be in big trouble. Right now it's still just mostly the stupid shit....home prices not-withstanding.

    #284 36 days ago
    Quoted from tilted81:

    So if I had an order already placed, what are the chances I have to chip in the extra? Especially if the game isn’t on the line till next year. The people who had order in when Elvira went up had to pay… so I’m guessing yes?

    Luckily for me the preorder for AIQ I had shipped to me last Friday and I've paid in full. It's going to be on the distributors to deal with the price increase. I was told, when I inquired if my machine came after the increase, was that they would try to work with me if they can. A lot depends on the exact amount of the price increase what will happen. A 1k increase in the premium though I would likely have had to pay. I told them if that is the case consider my machine cancelled as I had just missed the run last month. I was next to get mine. Only your distributor can say for sure what they will do but Stern is going to expect dealer price, whatever it is, when it ships from their factory. You don't have a deal with Stern you have a deal with your distributor.

    I believe there already was the normal increase in January and now this.

    #285 36 days ago

    Look at how Stern has driven up the prices on all these games at the Banning Auction.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-museum-auction-selling-has-begun

    #286 35 days ago
    Quoted from Insanity199:

    We don’t have to agree, I feel a lot of people are now being priced out of the market. I also wonder how operators will affected. Can only imagine it then translates to higher prices at locations.
    I guess we will see how it all shakes out.

    Ill let you know next week when we order a godzilla from our distributor

    #287 35 days ago
    Quoted from tilted81:

    So if I had an order already placed, what are the chances I have to chip in the extra? Especially if the game isn’t on the line till next year. The people who had order in when Elvira went up had to pay… so I’m guessing yes?

    Pretty good. It happened to me with Elvira.

    #288 35 days ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    In my experience at least the people who leave the hobby, or at least stop buying games, don't spend a lot of time talking about it. They just do it.

    That's very profound, and nobody appreciates someone being a dick head to people more than myself, but how may I expedite this for you? Would you like me to hurry up and not buy another? How may I quickly stop doing something? Let me know.

    #289 35 days ago
    Quoted from gjm7777:

    If additional covid shutdown concerns continue to plague the world, I wonder how many operators or bar/barcades are going to continue paying more for these games - especially considering most places that are left barely hung on the first time.

    I usually buy LE's for location, I have only bought one pro model for there.
    AIQ Avengers pro, recently.

    Public is not out there in big groups playing yet.

    These new prices will keep me away from LE's for location.
    Might not be buying too many for home either.

    #290 35 days ago

    I don’t know? My stock portfolio went up, house went up, canceled Concerts, trips and other stuff so I have extra money. I don’t have much to complain about. I will just pay a little more for a game I want. I recently sold my TOM to a friend who was very happy to get it and bought AIQ before the price increase. Friends will come over to play and have fun. If I want to swap it out later I will.

    This has been the circle of life of pinball with me for 10 years and you know what? Each year pinball is going up a little more. I am not cashing out. I am having a blast. Slow down and take a break? Nope.

    #291 35 days ago

    Things will settle. Nib were selling at a loss before covid. This will come back. Prices will come down a little, not much though. The pinball market has always been strong.

    Stern is seeing the money on the table and probably should have a long time ago. Pinheads are crazy with their money, so the market will weather the increase no problem.

    If you don't like it, stick with older machines. There are so many great titles out there. I can't wrap my head around anyone complaining about not affording nib.

    #292 35 days ago

    I think with the unfolding Banning Auction Fiasco it’s pretty clear Stern are not to blame for price increases.

    #293 35 days ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    In my experience at least the people who leave the hobby, or at least stop buying games, don't spend a lot of time talking about it. They just do it.

    Agree! And when people threaten to sue You and get an attorney it usually never happens.

    It's the person that doesn't give Me any warning and I get blind-sighted.

    #294 34 days ago

    Apple and Amazon stocks are up 10x in price since Metallica was announced.

    #295 34 days ago

    eh, I'm on the flip side of OP. I never thought I'd buy NIB because of prices compared to 20-30 year old games. But guess what -- any 90s B/W on my wishlist is actually more than NIB Stern Pros and has inflated much faster than Stern's prices... So these NIB games started to look appetizing in the past 12 months. I'm in on a few. no regrets. I was pleasantly surprised that modern games are just as good as the heyday. In fact, we may be in the middle of a modern pinball heyday with all the great titles and games coming out of multiple manufacturers. In 15 years some of these current games may be at the top of the list of desirability. Aint nothing to complain about here. Just spending money on stuff that's worth it to me, and not spending money on stuff that isn't worth it to me. Life is good and pinball is fun!

    #296 34 days ago

    Stern sells the cheapest pinball machines in the industry and a stern Pro remains the best value in the industry by far.

    I’ll just continue to remind the OP of this once a page.

    #297 33 days ago

    ho

    Quoted from Blindseer:

    There are many reasons American Pinball doesnt sell well but to be fair i heard they have sold out of their 500 Hot Wheels at this point.

    Yes, AP has sold more than 500 Hot Wheels, but Hot Wheels is not sold out. AP continues to build and ship Houdini, Oktoberfest and Hot Wheels.

    Just wanted to clarify-- carry on.

    #298 33 days ago
    Quoted from Vegas9:

    Yes, AP has sold more than 500 Hot Wheels

    I can believe this. Hot Wheels is a fantastic game.

    #299 33 days ago

    Hot Wheels is good, not fantastic. American Pinball keeps getting better, slowly, so does Spooky. A few more years I may buy one. JJP impressed me with Wizard of Oz and seems to go downhill from there.

    #300 33 days ago
    Quoted from Vegas9:

    ho

    Yes, AP has sold more than 500 Hot Wheels, but Hot Wheels is not sold out. AP continues to build and ship Houdini, Oktoberfest and Hot Wheels.
    Just wanted to clarify-- carry on.

    Yes, I meant the initial 500 sold out.

    There are 383 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 8.

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