Gotta agree with this, the layout is nothing daring but the mechs, subway, and theme integration do make it feel like the good old days.

Biggest reasons Sterns feel the same is that Gary imposes rules on all the titles - no widebodies, always pops, never lower pops, always Italian bottom, no backbox animations, and so forth. If you think back to 90s B/W there was variation in many of those areas from game to game.

Totally agree. 3lvira is awesome, I have not had a go on JP2 yet. I think the hobby has never been better.
Some people are impossible to please.

Well you def need to hit that one too Paddicted

Agreed. Hobby is on a major upswing

Yes agree totally iceman44 , We have run out of room and cannot fit anymore games for now. 3lvida was a dream theme for me so JP2 has to wait!

Interesting. For me it would be Layout, Code, Theme. If the game is fun, I don't care about the theme much at all. A theme I like might make the game that much better, but a theme I don't like doesn't keep me from playing a game that's fun and challenging.

There are four "old games" on the pinside top ten three of those are two flipper fan layouts TZ is the only "old game" in the top ten with more than two flippers

well well that's like um cause the rating are bullshit and need to be redesigned man. Someone should start a thread aboot it!

If that is how you feel you should be quoting pinballOsp who brought up the list

I got a chance to play a few of the latest Stern's last night on location. Elvira premium, Black Knight LE, Dead Pool Pro, and Jurassic Park Premium. Jurassic Park Premium was excellent, kinda want to buy one now. The game has a unique and fast layout. Elvira was fun but damn does that game seem bare and the short 100% plastic ramps look extremely cheap which is unacceptable on a $7500+ pin in my opinion. Elvira left me thinking "this game is fun but no way in hell is it worth $7800+". I'm sure the $15k model with the couch piece offers an entirely different experience (*insert sarcasm).

Dead Pool was fun and as a pro game I think it offers a decent value. Black Knight LE was the worst of them all in my opinion and the 3 friends I played it with. The upper playfield is dull and the main toy (the flail on the knight) likes to shoot the ball right down the middle. Fun...no. The lack of shots and mind numbing 120% pace drumming for the main track doesn't help either.

Jurassic Park Premium / LE has one hell of a fun layout with some cool features spread throughout the game. Keith is 2 for 2 so far and is bringing a breath of fresh air into Stern's playfield designs. I like many past Ritchie and Borg layouts but think both designers need to try something new with their playfield designs.

I agree with you on this especially BK LE the upper PF (super lame) some guy trying to sell an BKLE at $2k off.

I agree Elvira is not the best of many of these later pins like JP and Maiden, I can not understand how the premium costs $400 more than a normal premium.

I have not found a LE worth spending extra for since STLE

The hobby is only as good as you want to make it.

Stern makes a lot of pins every year, some are great and some are "good"

But say Stern's "Layouts Suck" is crazy foolish IMO

I'm not a super fan, but is more difficult makes 6 games per year than 1

when I flip them and 90% of them I have no interest in playing again, let alone buy for home..I think that says something. Many of the rabid stern fans buy them unseen having never even played them, you start to feel they have to praise them to keep their state of mind. I'm not saying they are horrible, just that they tend to leave a 'meh' in my mind. That's even before thinking about the actual cost of one. I don't care about 6 games vs. 1. Make 1 good game. It's like saying Hollywood makes better movies when they plan trilogies, rather than 1 good movie.

Amen. Houdini is a tremendous entry pin the Pinside brigade shat down all the way to $5k. Is it the non-fan layout? Fragile egos shattered by the tight shots? JJP fanboys threatened by the similarly loaded, yet much cheaper brand? Whatever it is it's not getting a fair shake. We'll see if they do the same to Oktoberfest, an even better pin.

I think stern is doing a great job at appeasing a wide verity of pinball fanatics. Not every release is going to be a unique bombshell.

Good point. I agree they are generally going for mass appeal. I was honestly surprised they made Black Knight. Unlicensed theme and brutally fast/drainy.

They have had a some big successes this year, and a few that was the same old layout slapped with a theme that pinsiders were begging for. With that said, there is something to be said about those bare bones games that are "cheap" and easy for ops to work on. I feel like I've seen a lot more pins on route in the past 5 years and almost all of them are stern pros. If these games are helping the popularity of our hobby then that's fine by me. The more people in the hobby means that we can actually have other manufacturers other than stern. Don't like this months brand new stern, fine buy a JJ or spooky or AP etc. When i first got into the hobby over 10 years ago it was hard to find a place to play a game on route, let alone find someone else near me that was into the hobby. I remember so many times people would say "whats a pinball machine".

That's the bottom line...we all rank these attributes differently. I tend to rank layout (and shot "feel") first, which is why I rarely fire up BM66 (great theme/integration, but real boring layout & shot feel). OTOH, I can't stop playing JP2...innovative layout with amazing shot feel.

Only this year Stern made 2\3 Good games JPLE, ElviraLE and BlackNightLE(I need to play more)

In this thread we are not talking about Stern prices or other s***, We are talking about "Layout sucks" and I'm not agree.