and whats more, they are going to charge you more for it too
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Quoted from Tomass:This may have something to do with an upcoming theme (speculation). In the Gary Stern interview, he mentioned these types of things affecting liscensing. He mentioned something about them asking what they are doing to protect the ip and cracking down. Maybe there is a very hard to attain liscense that they picked up and this is needed? All speculation
Well, LZ is very very strict on their licensing. It could very much have to do with that.
Quoted from Lermods:This is probably a bit naive on my part, but Once you buy a game, isn’t it yours to do as you please, including hacking the software? You void your warranty, but what’s the issue otherwise? I thought the problem comes when you start doing modifications and then offering it to others, free or not. This notion that stern could detect a change you’ve made and somehow disable your game doesn’t seem right.
What would stop someone from instead of sharing their revised code to telling others how to do it themselves?
Whole new realm. Historically, while there are provisions against reverse engineering (in the states) when game consoles went online, they really only banned systems with hacker/cheaters. That really doesn't come into play in pinball..at least not yet. There are laws around you being able to do whatever to something you own, but you cannot sell, you cannot give away modified code (for example) to others without rights. Lawyers love vague blanket statements that allow them to twist it to do their bidding as necessary.
Where this is really going to become a problem is for example Youtube review videos and streams of people playing the games, which is COMPLETE horseshit IMO. Nintendo is very much guilty of such nonsense. As are the music/movie copyright trolls. Or for those who want a really good example of abuse. The Superbowl.
With the new crap they put in the stimulus package revolving around movies/streaming etc, everyones lives are about to get a bit harder in the entertainment realm.
In the context you are probably asking from, I doubt anyone is going to come after you for mods you make, unless you flat out 'borrow' an image owned by someone else. Since this is such a niche market, it is highly unlikely even if you did (say AC/DC font) that anything would happen, but that is highly up to the copyright owners and their lawyers discretion.
This has always been an argument since the IoT began. If you hadn't noticed...people ARE okay with it. Those of us who aren't are few and far between.
Yeah, I was about to say I had 2 tribute band videos just put on strike and they weren't even public. It is crazy stupid.
Quoted from pinballwil:I heard the podcast, Gary said we loosed a license holder. They don't want customers that abuse there products.
So I hope it has nothing to do with the Jp movie clips because then Stern have lost a lot game licenses from Amblin for Jaws and reruns for Jp and upcoming games like bttf.
So I am curious what that license holder is they lost.
One things shure Stern is furious.
and if true, frankly this is exactly what is wrong with the laws around it. If I bought it, I will do as I choose with it. It hurts no one. It is all about lawyers pocketbooks. It's not like Stern is selling it, or the people in question are selling it either.
"bunch of thieves". Bunch of BS. Basically, it's the typical lawyer speak flex. The idea being 'we'll sue you into being broke because we can'.
Once again, it's a step in the direction of, I simply won't buy your product if you subscribe to such nonsense. As a pinball manufacturer, I don't 'need' you to live. Yes you are stuck in the middle, but maybe you should expand upon what you are doing rather than throw your customers under the bus. The customers pay your bills, not the license holders. Be interesting to see where this goes, because people aren't going to stop doing what they are doing, and in the near future overly bullsh!t and overbearing ToS's will come under much higher scrutiny than they have in the past.
What we need are judges who actually throw these frivolous cases out and fine those who bring them. We KNOW what copyright protections are for, and this isn't the intent.
Quoted from Dr-pin:I still havent had anyone with a view on if this means the end to have games earning cash on location.
We don't know 100% but really makes zero sense that they would do such a thing since that is still a large portion of the consumer base and the license holders know this as well before they make the agreements.
Quoted from KozMckPinball:Aren't there plenty of you tube musicians showing off their cover tunes? Maybe some are not "up to snuff". They can get sued for that?
Typically as long as you aren't monetizing them it's not a big deal, but it seems to be hit or miss.
In the world of pinball streaming however, it is all about the clicks and ad $$. I personally have begun to really hate what youtube has become.
Quoted from Dr-pin:Is it even legal to put restraints on an item that you buy?
I can see if you publicise the changes or make money from theese alterations, but for personal use?
(ofc it may void warranties but otherwise?)
Also i´m not sure it ever has stated somewhere on a blu-ray wich device im allowed to play it on?
In the US it is..corporations own this country. I know that it is challenged and negated quite a bit in the EU. The only thing that stops it is if you just don't advertise that you did it, but...where's the fun in that? It's a 'look what i can do' world. Lots of very great things have been ceased and desisted because people couldn't help themselves from hyping their product before it was ready.
I believe in rights of owners, don't get me wrong. However, it is a severely abused system.
Quoted from pbu:I can say with near certainty that the people earning more than $100 a month from Pinball on Twitch could be counted on one hand. The cost of keeping your streaming gear reasonably up to date ensures that pinball streaming on Twitch is solidly in the red for nearly everyone. For me personally, right now my laptop is on it's last legs and I could use another HDMI camera, capture device, better lighting, and a better stand for mounting everyone... etc... It never ends. If you're all about clicks and ad $$ pinball is a terrible idea.
Oh I'm not saying they are making bank. I was pointing out that there is a mentality now that it's about trying to make a name and money, rather than just the hobby and doing it and sharing experiences for fun. I get it, I've been in bands, so I'm not really berating it as much as it may sound.
Quoted from ahanson:Seems like a move in the wrong direction. It's always sad to see "big" companies miss the larger possibilities of new technologies. But, that's how new innovative companies start, so that should be interesting.
Entertainment industries have always worked to stifle progress and control the narrative.
Well why have streaming at all? There. Case closed. End user has no rights. Play your game and keep it to yourself. You don't need to show it off to anyone outside of your house. Hell, you don't even need to buy it, they don't want you to actually have it anyway because 'can't milk you more'. In fact, why put music on them? Your neighbors could hear it, and you can't have that!!!
It's just complete stupidity and always has been. Yes, we get it. Don't make copies of someones stuff and sell it. Other than that, the rest is complete over reaching bullshit.
You are missing part of the picture. Pretty much anything can be hacked given the want and time. Stern is more susceptible because they are the biggest and put out the most games (on a standard platform). They reach the largest audience, so most likely to have people with that skill, time, and desire.
Of course, that is the key, desire. There needs to be a reason first. Most of it revolves around the endless band games. A few things with toppers, but in the grand scheme of things much of the 'mods' can be done without any software modification. The other smaller companies? frankly not a lot of reason to hack the software at this point, and since they are lower numbers, less likely to happen at all.
Quoted from Yelobird:Is there a specific amount of money you need to prove this on a JJP game.... I can think of Many who would coin up if you could show us how.
Which part are you asking? If JJP can be hacked? Most likely. Is it worth it to most? Probably not. Unless someone really good is a huge pinball fan and sees a need or thinks they can make money off it. If millions of people bought pinball machines and had them in their home at their disposal 24/7, it would get done by someone, probably just to see if they can. And no, I'm not one who could do it or I already would have tried.
If you are referring to this 'mods can be done without software modification', I was referring to normal mods that require nothing more than power, not integrated mods. That being said, I'm sure there are some people around who COULD do it, if they wanted to. One of the first questions I asked on this site was if anyone was making custom images, and you could see it was a touchy subject.
Don't Sterns node board lockouts go against right to repair? If they are indeed like that, I can't believe anyone still buys them unless they are dirt cheap.
Quoted from Yelobird:I think your over reading my question. Sorry. Just observing how many posts and threads there are from people Wishing they could add to or edit a JJP game (say A Pirates Life) as an example. Just curious how nobody can hack a JJP. That’s all.
I probably was. Short of it is, it probably isn't a matter of can't. It's more of a matter of lack of people with the skills and lack of desire. Even if someone did, doesn't mean it could be done in months. It could be years. I would be surprised if it is THAT difficult though, otherwise they should be licensing to the NSA rather than working in a pinball company.
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