(Topic ID: 249337)

Stern Quicksilver, first Stern, first full sized SS. Display and GI


By johnboy1313

9 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 55 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 20 hours ago by johnboy1313
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 15 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

IMG_1402c.jpg
IMG_7684 (resized).JPG
IMG_7685 (resized).JPG
IMG_7686 (resized).JPG
IMG_7684 (resized).JPG
Lamp_Socket_Controlled.jpg
image (resized).jpg
IMG_7675 (resized).JPG
image (resized).jpg
IMG_7624 (resized).JPG
IMG_7623 (resized).JPG
IMG_7619 (resized).JPG
IMG_7621 (resized).JPG
IMG_7620 (resized).JPG
IMG_7592 (resized).JPG

There are 55 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 9 days ago

Hello everyone. I’ve searched and searched for the answer to some of these questions, but I’m not familiar enough with the inner workings of a SS machine or the nomenclature to identify what components I’m dealing with and how they work. I apologize for asking questions that could be answered with the search function. I really don’t know what keywords to search. I’ve tried “Stern Quicksilver” and “Stern display” but I haven’t found the answer to my issues. I just picked up a partially working Quicksilver. When I first brought it home, the 7A slow blow fuse had been replaced with a 10A fast blow that was blown badly also the large plug at the base of the bridge rectifier board is burnt on each end. I replaced the blown fuse with the correct replacement after which, the machine powers on. The displays for player 1 and 2 both show some sparkly artifacts along with digits that come and go. The player 3 display is missing the bottom segment on all seven digits. The player 4 display only shows the first digit most of the time but will occasionally flash all 7 digits. I haven’t taken anything apart yet, but I will reflow all of the solder joints on those display boards to see if it changes anything.

Now the weirdest part (at least weird to me). This happens on all displays and all digits, the individual numbers will randomly jump back and forth by two digits. A 0 will randomly turn to a 2, a 1 to a 3, a 2 to a 4 and so on. When a credit is used, the score display will jump around between 00, 02, 20, or 22 before the game is actually played. The credits remaining, ball in play, and all four score displays do this randomly on all digits but not at the same time. It might show the wrong ball in play but the score is correct or vice versa.

Also, none of the playfield general illumination is working. The top half of the back box illumination is out as well, though the lower half works fine. Is that probably related to the bridge rectifier board being burnt?

Finally (for now), as soon as a credit is used, there is a loud repeated sound that may or may not be intentional. It’s as if a switch is stuck somewhere and the machine just replays that sound over and over. I’ve watched several videos of this game being played on youtube and haven’t heard the same repeated sound. After looking at the manual, I’m wondering if this is the “Background Sound” mentioned at switch 14 on page 9 of the manual.

I’ve attached a picture to this post. You can see that the bottom segment of each digit of the 3rd player display is missing. The 4th player display only shows the number 7. Also notice it shows ball "30" in play. I will post a video or two in the comments below in order to describe exactly what the video(s) is/are showing.

Again, I apologize if these are commonly asked questions.

Thanks for the help, John

IMG_7592 (resized).JPG
#2 9 days ago

In the attached video, you can see the numbers changing by 2, along with some numbers that vanish and reappear. You can also hear the repeated sound I referenced in the post above.

#3 9 days ago

In this video you can see the ghosting digit that is trying to appear at the millions place when the high score isn't lit.

#4 9 days ago

So there you have it. Where should I start? Let me know and I will post pictures of whatever you need to see.

Thanks again, John

#5 9 days ago

With these old games connectors can become cold solder joints. Try reseating them and get the rectifier one replaced.

#6 9 days ago
Quoted from chad:

With these old games connectors can become cold solder joints. Try reseating them and get the rectifier one replaced.

I should have mentioned, I've already reseated all of the connectors. I will touch up the solder joints tonight.

Thanks

#7 9 days ago

That repeating sound is the background sound, if you don't like it you can go into adjustments and turn it off. Congrats on scoring one of the best Sterns ever!

#8 9 days ago
Quoted from Crispin:

That repeating sound is the background sound, if you don't like it you can go into adjustments and turn it off. Congrats on scoring one of the best Sterns ever!

Thanks! Even with it only partially working, both of my sons have already told me that it's their favorite of the machines that we own.

#9 9 days ago

You need to repin the connectors, reseating them is a temporary fix. The numbers jumping around is the data being lost from the connector at the mpu to the decoder on the display. 99.9% of these games of this era need the rectifier board rebuilt with new bridge rectifiers and connector headers. If the fuse clips look tarnished or burned, those need to be replaced as well. Get the power and connectors nice and rebuilt and a lot of the other problems you are seeing will go away.

#10 9 days ago

I can't help you with your issue, but I can give you the thumbs up on your Quicksilver. You scored on that find. Everyone loves that game Hope you get your issues sorted

#11 9 days ago

Congrats on your Quicksilver.

#12 9 days ago

I pulled all four score displays and touched up the solder joints. Someone else had been in there before me and really did a number to the boards. I repaired a few broken traces as well. I was able to get the 4th player display working but one of the other three doesn't really work at all now. It only shows sparkles. I swapped the non-working one into the 4th player position. Somehow, the upper half of the backglass illumination started working in the process.

#13 9 days ago

As mentioned above, you'll want to reflow solder to all of the pins on all of your boards. You'll also at least want to replace the rectifier. For me, since they're so cheap, I've replaced the entire board with a DIY kit ($35 shipped) or an assembled board ($55 shipped) from weebly
https://nvram.weebly.com/new-pcbs.html

This will allow you to better troubleshoot. For a game like this, I would probably go all out with the good stuff anyway. New displays, new boards where needed, complete rebuild and cleaning of all mechs etc.

Nice score and fun machine!

#14 8 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

As mentioned above, you'll want to reflow solder to all of the pins on all of your boards. You'll also at least want to replace the rectifier. For me, since they're so cheap, I've replaced the entire board with a DIY kit ($35 shipped) or an assembled board ($55 shipped) from weebly
https://nvram.weebly.com/new-pcbs.html
This will allow you to better troubleshoot. For a game like this, I would probably go all out with the good stuff anyway. New displays, new boards where needed, complete rebuild and cleaning of all mechs etc.
Nice score and fun machine!

I've got a new rectifier board with the accessories (plugs, crimp connectors, standoffs, etc) coming from Pinball Life in Huntley, IL. I will reflow everything and report back in a few days.

Thanks! You all are a huge help.

#15 8 days ago

Replace the 4543 decoder chip.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Display.28s.29_flicker

My displays had similar problems and this was the fix.

John

#16 8 days ago
Quoted from johnnypinball:

Replace the 4543 decoder chip.
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Display.28s.29_flicker
My displays had similar problems and this was the fix.
John

Thank you for that link John. I appreciate it.

It may take me a few days to go through everything. I will report back.

#17 7 days ago

I got the new replacement rectifier board in the mail today and installed it tonight. Prior to installing it I was attemtping to fix a weak left flipper by adjusting the EOS switch and blew the 7a slowblow fuse on the rectifier board. Right before it blew I noticed the EOS switch itself was too hot to touch. Then the flippers and all gameplay went dead. This was the same fuse that was blown when I bought it. I swapped the new board in and by the second ball the fuse blew again. This is where I noticed the new board calls for a 5a fastblow fuse. Why would they go to a smaller amperage fastblow fuse on a circuit that was designed for a 7a slowblow? What could be the issue with my flipper coil? The right one has clearly been changed. It's got a different label on it and looks a lot cleaner and brighter. The left coil is original as far as I can tell. In the attached pics you can see the original fuse callouts on the label above the board. The new board says "5A FB" for the same circuit. This was supposed to be a direct replacement. Did I get the correct board?

IMG_7619 (resized).JPGIMG_7620 (resized).JPGIMG_7621 (resized).JPG
#18 7 days ago
Quoted from johnboy1313:

The new board says "5A FB" for the same circuit. This was supposed to be a direct replacement. Did I get the correct board?

5 amp fast blow at F4 was the default for Bally/Stern games that had two flippers. For games with 4 flippers a larger rated fuse was needed. I guess Stern stuck with the larger rated fuse for lower B.O.M. I can't see any other reason.
Since Quick Silver is a two flipper game I imagine a 5 amp fast blow is plenty sufficient.

Quoted from johnboy1313:

I got the new replacement rectifier board in the mail today and installed it tonight. Prior to installing it I was attemtping to fix a weak left flipper by adjusting the EOS switch and blew the 7a slowblow fuse on the rectifier board. Right before it blew I noticed the EOS switch itself was too hot to touch.

Sounds like the EOS switch might be wired wrong if it's getting hot and the solenoid fuse on the rectifier board is blowing. Post clear pictures of the wiring at both flippers.

#19 7 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Sounds like the EOS switch might be wired wrong if it's getting hot and the solenoid fuse on the rectifier board is blowing. Post clear pictures of the wiring at both flippers.

We've been playing it all week with no trouble until I tried to adjust the switch. Pics attached.

IMG_7623 (resized).JPGIMG_7624 (resized).JPG
#20 7 days ago

As I was taking these pictures, I noticed that the right flipper coil is an aftermarket replacement with the part number 34-4500. The left flipper coil looks like it's a Bally 34-5050. Both coils say AQ-25-500. I'm not familiar with the coils enough to know what the difference is.

#21 7 days ago

34 is the gauge of wire, and 5050 is number of turns.

#22 7 days ago
Quoted from johnboy1313:

We've been playing it all week with no trouble until I tried to adjust the switch. Pics attached.[quoted image][quoted image]

Is that solder on the end of the coil stop in the second picture? My recommendation is to get a flipper rebuild kit. It will replace the coil stop, EOS switch, the jacked up screw on the coil stop, and several other components that are probably now worn. Based on the pics, it looks like it was a hack job just to get it to play.

For me, for a game as rare as this, I would give it the full treatment.

Can't tell in the pics, but make sure that neither of the tabs of the EOS switch are touching the flipper base plate.

#23 6 days ago

Is the eos opening when the plunger pulls into the coil? Also make sure the screws holding the eos to the flipper bracket are tight.

#24 6 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

Is that solder on the end of the coil stop in the second picture?

Yes it is. The center plug had broken free when I bought it and was inside the coil sleeve. I sweated the parts back together to see if it would work.

Quoted from FatPanda:

My recommendation is to get a flipper rebuild kit. It will replace the coil stop, EOS switch, the jacked up screw on the coil stop, and several other components that are probably now worn. Based on the pics, it looks like it was a hack job just to get it to play.
For me, for a game as rare as this, I would give it the full treatment.
Can't tell in the pics, but make sure that neither of the tabs of the EOS switch are touching the flipper base plate.

I ordered a complete assembly kit earlier this morning.

Thanks!

#25 6 days ago
Quoted from johnboy1313:

Yes it is. The center plug had broken free when I bought it and was inside the coil sleeve. I sweated the parts back together to see if it would work.

I ordered a complete assembly kit earlier this morning.
Thanks!

Ha! It's one thing just to keep things patched together, but I've seen games with hacks like this for the long term (operator machines). I worked out a bunch of these types of hacks on a game I acquired recently. It's very frustrating when going through this kinda stuff. I think you'll find that things work themselves out when you put proper parts in games.

#26 5 days ago

Installed the new flipper assembly today. The full assembly. It's all new. It blows the 5a fuse on the rectifier board immediately. It doesn't even start to move the flipper. I took the wires off one wire at a time. I soldered them fully. I don't get it.
image (resized).jpg

#27 5 days ago

The brand new coil shows a dead-short across the two outside posts after I pulled it back out of the machine. I should have measured it before I installed it but I didn't think to. I'm going to have to order a new coil and try again. The right flipper doesn't blow the fuse, it works fine.

#28 5 days ago

Looks like I installed the outside wires backwards. Both diodes are shorted when clipped from the circuit. The coil seems to be good. Can i use it temporarily with the diodes clipped until I get a new coil next week?

#29 5 days ago

You don’t need a new coil if it’s a blown diode. take them off the old assembly and if they test good use those.

#30 5 days ago
Quoted from Black_Knight:

You don’t need a new coil if it’s a blown diode. take them off the old assembly and if they test good use those.

Good call! It worked. Thanks for the tip.

#31 3 days ago

I touched up all of the connector pins on the MPU and tested them for continuity. I don't seem to have any connector issues but my display woes continue. I ordered new 4543 decoders, new 100k 1/2w resistors, and new transistors to rebuild the display boards. Once they arrive, I will install them. Any of you care to take a guess as to what is making the digits climb by two?

For instance, when using a credit to start a one player game, instead of showing 00, it shows 22 sometimes. See post #17. In the pic of the full machine, the credits display shows 26 but it should be 04. The ball in play display shows 22, it should be 00. The score doesn't really work either. It will start off at maybe 22,000 points when a large amount of points are scored, but when something like a 25,000 point bonus is added, the score starts to climb, but then jumps backwards. When the bonus has finished adding, the new score might be lower than it was before the bonus was added. The number 1 will jump to 3, a 2 will jump to 4, a 3 to 5 and so on. It also jumps backwards too. This seems to happen on all displays and all digits. I tried swapping U10 and U11 on the MPU, but it made no difference at all so I suspect that wasn't the issue.

Can any of you point me in the direction of something else I can test to try to remedy this? There's really no point in trying to play a multiplayer game other than the fun of the game. There's no way to tell who really has the higher score.

#32 3 days ago

Can you post a video of display test mode running through the total number sequence (well at least 10 changes of numbers)? It will help paint a picture of what's logically going wrong.

#33 3 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Can you post a video of display test mode running through the total number sequence (well at least 10 changes of numbers)? It will help paint a picture of what's logically going wrong.

Will do. I'll be around the machine this afternoon.

#34 3 days ago

Awesome, glad this is working!

#35 3 days ago

Here are a couple videos. The first is the display issue I've been experiencing. The number 8 will only show on the 3rd player display. Same with the number 9. Something is getting mixed up and trying to turn the 8 to a 10 or the 9 to an 11. During the test, I noticed that everything except the 3rd player display is wrong at the same time. On those displays, every 0 is displayed as a 2, every 1 is displayed as a 3, 2s are 2s, 3s are 3s, 4s are 6s, 5s are 7s, 6s are 6s, 7s are 7s, 8s and 9s go blank.

Now, I have a new issue. When I powered the machine on just now to make the first video, I noticed a small handful of display lights weren't flashing. I swapped them out with no change. There are two white buttons on the coin door. One is mounted closer to the door, the other is further out away from the door (see the attached photo if you don't understand my description). I've been pushing the one furthest away from the door but just now pushed the other button. Something started humming, I shut the machine down, and now I've lost an even bigger handful of playfield lights. The second video shows that. All playfield lights were working last night when I went inside. What is that second button?

Thanks!
IMG_7675 (resized).JPG

#36 3 days ago

I swapped the 1st and 3rd player displays. 3rd player still shows the correct numbers. Looks like the connections may not be as solid as I thought.

image (resized).jpg
#37 3 days ago
Quoted from johnboy1313:

I swapped the 1st and 3rd player displays. 3rd player still shows the correct numbers. Looks like the connections may not be as solid as I thought.

The display wiring harness probably starts at display 3 then daisy chains to the other displays. So yeah, likely you have an open circuit between the blue-white wire at pin 18 of display 3 and the same pin at the next display in the wiring chain.
Below is the binary representation of the signals, left side is what should be happening, right side is what you're getting. You can see there is a signal always being seen as high '1' which is BCD signal "D1" that comes from the MPU board at pin 26 of J1 and goes to all the displays at pin 18 (Blue-White wire).

0 0000 --> 0010 2
1 0001 --> 0011 3
2 0010 --> 0010 2
3 0011 --> 0011 3
4 0100 --> 0110 6
5 0101 --> 0111 7
6 0110 --> 0110 6
7 0111 --> 0111 7
8 1000 --> 1010 -
9 1001 --> 1011 -
- 1010 --> 1010 -
- 1011 --> 1010 -
- 1100 --> 1110 -
- 1101 --> 1111 -
- 1110 --> 1110 -
- 1111 --> 1111 -

#38 2 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

The display wiring harness probably starts at display 3 then daisy chains to the other displays. So yeah, likely you have an open circuit between the blue-white wire at pin 18 of display 3 and the same pin at the next display in the wiring chain.
Below is the binary representation of the signals, left side is what should be happening, right side is what you're getting. You can see there is a signal always being seen as high '1' which is BCD signal "D1" that comes from the MPU board at pin 26 of J1 and goes to all the displays at pin 18 (Blue-White wire).
0 0000 --> 0010 2
1 0001 --> 0011 3
2 0010 --> 0010 2
3 0011 --> 0011 3
4 0100 --> 0110 6
5 0101 --> 0111 7
6 0110 --> 0110 6
7 0111 --> 0111 7
8 1000 --> 1010 -
9 1001 --> 1011 -
- 1010 --> 1010 -
- 1011 --> 1010 -
- 1100 --> 1110 -
- 1101 --> 1111 -
- 1110 --> 1110 -
- 1111 --> 1111 -

Thanks for the info. I will start tracing that circuit.

#39 2 days ago

Now I've lost all of the playfield lights. I've still got the general illumination lights. I've got +5V at TP2 and TP3 on the driver board. Where do I go from there? I could understand a connector being responsible for a handful of lights going out, but all of them? Does anyone have a good clear schematic for LDA-100 rev C they'd share?

#40 2 days ago

Johnboy, you're going to continue chasing your tail until you get ALL your voltages and connectors working correctly. That's a nice game but you need to get everything working properly.

See this thread:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/advise-for-early-solid-state-owners

Take your time and get it done right.

#41 2 days ago

Your problem with the lamp issue is likely to be connector related as oldschoolbob was getting at. We see it happen here all the time.
What happens when you wiggle the J1 connector on the MPU board and the J4 connector on the lamp driver board? Do any lamps suddenly start working?
Communications between the two is done over these connectors.

#42 2 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Your problem with the lamp issue is likely to be connector related as oldschoolbob was getting at. We see it happen here all the time.
What happens when you wiggle the J1 connector on the MPU board and the J4 connector on the lamp driver board? Do any lamps suddenly start working?
Communications between the two is done over these connectors.

There's no change when wiggling connectors. I've tried individual wires too. No lights come back on. Like I said, everything is out now. I checked the fuses. They're all good. There's 5V going into the lamp board but there's nothing coming out.

#43 1 day ago
Quoted from johnboy1313:

There's no change when wiggling connectors. I've tried individual wires too. No lights come back on. Like I said, everything is out now. I checked the fuses. They're all good. There's 5V going into the lamp board but there's nothing coming out.

How about the bare braid wire running to the base of each feature lamp socket under the playfield. Do you measure 5.4VDC there?
If you grab a piece of wire with both ends stripped, connect one end to ground and touch the other end on the tab at the tip of any lamp socket, does the respective lamp illuminate?

Lamp_Socket_Controlled.jpg

#45 1 day ago

Thanks to the tip from quench, I made a step forward. One of the two wires to pin 18 at the 3rd player connector had broken off. I pulled the second wire, clipped off the old contact, and crimped a new contact onto both wires. My display parts came in today. I still plan on new decoders and 100k resistors. Thanks for the guidance guys. I've got a shopping cart full of connector components over at Great Plains waiting for him to return tomorrow. I haven't looked into the lamps yet.

IMG_7685 (resized).JPGIMG_7686 (resized).JPGIMG_7684 (resized).JPG
#46 1 day ago
Quoted from Quench:

How about the bare braid wire running to the base of each feature lamp socket under the playfield. Do you measure 5.4VDC there?
If you grab a piece of wire with both ends stripped, connect one end to ground and touch the other end on the tab at the tip of any lamp socket, does the respective lamp illuminate?
[quoted image]

Grounding any one of the playfield lamps get that lamp to illuminate. Im guessing the lamp driver must ground each lamp to light it.

#47 1 day ago

I touched up the solder joints on the mpu and now it won't boot. This thing is really putting up a fight.

#48 1 day ago
Quoted from johnboy1313:

I still plan on new decoders and 100k resistors.

The only display that looks like it might need the decoder replaced is at player 4.
Display 3 with the missing lower segment is more likely to be a faulty segment drive transistor (Q11 in this case). If you don't have any spare MPSA42 transistors on hand, swap Q11 with Q10 and see if the missing segment moves. If not, it's possibly the decoder.

Quoted from johnboy1313:

I touched up the solder joints on the mpu and now it won't boot. This thing is really putting up a fight.

You'll have to get the magnifying glass out and closely inspect the solder work for any accidental bridges between pins.
What's the MPU board doing - how many times does the MPU LED flicker/flash?

#49 1 day ago
Quoted from Quench:

The only display that looks like it might need the decoder replaced is at player 4.
Display 3 with the missing lower segment is more likely to be a faulty segment drive transistor (Q11 in this case). If you don't have any spare MPSA42 transistors on hand, swap Q11 with Q10 and see if the missing segment moves. If not, it's possibly the decoder.

You'll have to get the magnifying glass out and closely inspect the solder work for any accidental bridges between pins.
What's the MPU board doing - how many times does the MPU LED flicker/flash?

The decoder fixed #3 too.

The LED is solid or doesnt light at all.

#50 1 day ago
Quoted from johnboy1313:

The LED is solid or doesnt light at all.

If the LED sometimes doesn't light (flicker) at all on powerup there's a power issue.

Until your connector crimp terminals come in, pull J4 off the MPU board and check for crimped terminals that have lost tension.
Does the MPU board have battery corrosion and if yes has it the MPU board pin headers causing poor conductivity?

IMG_1402c.jpg

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 155.00
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Greenville, SC
$ 10.00
From: $ 10.00
From: $ 155.00
$ 10.00
Playfield - Decals
Doc's Pinball Shop
$ 19.95
$ 399.95
There are 55 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside