There are only a few points that I dont think are acceptible that stern cut, thats the stupid lockbar clasps and all plastic ramps. The plastic ramps make it look way cheep and the lockbar clamps are a pain and something that you use all the time they should be left as was. The rail post thing doesnt bother me since if Im opening the playfield its usually up fully or down. And the backbox clamp removal sucks but not used often. The new headbox, I think it looks great, way nicer, but the now relocated power switch super lame.

Has anyone relocated the switch to the normal spot yet? Seems like just some wire and a small hole and you would be good to go, no?

Plastic ramps have been around since the 80s (think Space Shuttle and Comet) and are sometimes chosen just for the speed of the play (TRON) or visibility (WhiteWater) .

Lockbar clasps are pretty normal if you come from the 1970-80s world of servicing video games.

And that level of service comes with a cost. Whether it was paid up front or at the actual service call.....or both.

I'd rather get my pins at the lowest possible cost and deal with the little issues myself.....but that's me. I can actually stick some graphics back on or fix a wire.

Really? You don't believe it is reasonable to expect higher quality as the price of a product increases?

You would be the only person I know who thinks this way - it's human nature.

That makes me wonder how the boutiques are going to handle these issues. Heighway and Spooky are sold direct, yes? Or wait, I read something about Heighway having a US distributor--but you can buy direct on their site.

Seems like you wouldn't need distributors if you're selling 100-300 machines.

No, I don't. It's not a trade where they're charging more because you're getting more. Instead they simply increased the prices.

I bought a early ST with 1.40 it now has 1.61 easy update fun game from day one.Your next Stern needs to be TSPP one of there best

I find Stern very helpful my ST would not update they sent a replacement chip twice as I f*#ked up the first one.With my ac/dc pro two lightning bolts broke the first week they sent me a set of metal backed bolts to replace them.

Some people just want to bitch as I have said the people whining the loudest don't even own a Stern

Those are not just plastic ramps. They are super speed ramps with ultra fast flipper ball return worth $1k each. They must be forged in a cave by monks in the Himalayas for how much Stern charges for their games.

not when u crack open the NIB.

I can only shake my head, reading some of these "I know best. Here's what Stern ought to do differently" posts.
It's good to hear from the home-schooled crowd I suppose.
This isn't Toyota. Stern doesn't have multiple dealerships across the country. They don't make millions each quarter.
Considering the number of pins they sell compared to the number of Pinsiders who post threads of ACTUAL problems/issues they're having, I'd say it's safe to say Stern is doing fine.
Perfect? Clearly not. But the fact is, there are VERY FEW people on here who can say "I have an unresolved issue with a game I bought from Stern". Yes, there's a few -and that sucks, but compared to the total number of pins sold, I still feel that they are a solid company to deal with.
I will say this: if you've held off buying a NIB for multiple years because you're afraid it won't be perfect, that's probably the right choice. Go and buy a resale pin that you can see and play before buying.

And don't forget that WILD steel ball flying around and smashing into everything!

Finally someone in this thread making a point based on data! It's a nice respite from the fanboys vs haters back and forth fueled only by emotion, bad analogies and hyperbole/speculation!!

(I'm sure it's an oversight but could you post sterns total unit sell through vs defect rate that you based your post on?)

Oh, yes.

You should have been there helping us with the deployments.

Old School Pinball: NIB is bought because its the only way you get the latest game.
New School Pinball: NIB is bought because they want the perfect example of a game.

This is why people are at such odds. Old school expects pins to be working mules that we doll up so they look as good as they can. New School expects a minty perfect game when they buy.. and buy NIB expecting that's the way to get that.

That said, that doesn't means a game should ship with clear, pretty glaring defects (like those poorly installed decals), or fail within a short period due to poor quality parts. Just that some people are willing to accept it may take some dialing in to get that high standard, some are willing to accept defects on less important elements, and others want a flawless product.

Stern isn't selling route games anymore... they (and operators) shouldn't be applying old route tales to games being sold to home collectors.

Most games are indeed commercial coinop games, but every once in a while they make something like IM Classic for you.

IM_Classic.jpg

When there is more route locations out there than home collections.. and they operate more new sterns than older games.. I'll change my mind. In the mean time... The # of locations with pins within my region is 24. The number of pinside collections in that same region... more than 5x that many. Routes in my region are dying... private collections are still growing. We all know where Stern has been aiming since Jack showed them the way...

Routes in my region are growing.

Many arcade pubs opening too with vidgames and pins.

By law, if they have coin doors, they are considered commercial coinop amusement devices (even if set to freeplay) and must have a license in many cities.

I put a dozen of these blank doors on an arcade pub's pins in order to skirt the licensing law:

BlankCoinDoor.jpg

They have not had a single game broken into since I installed them.

The point is (and I'm sorry it was apparently over your head):
If you have a legit quality issue, post it and show some pics.
If you don't, then why bitch and slander?

Ah ok. I thought your point was that the number of issues to the number of pins being produced wasn't that high...

Anyway. Thank you for bearing with the lesser brained pinsiders like me!

Point----->

My Head----->

Regardless, piling on if you don't have legitimate issues is not ok. I agree.

Additionally, I'm optimistic stern will work through my (and other pinheads) issues when they buy NIB. below are pics of missing bolts (all 4 that attach the playfield back were missing) and playfield buffing issue (one of 3-4 areas where clearcoat was buffed through. (Let the 'get over it and play pinball comments commence!!)
image.jpeg

image.jpeg

Dude put some screws in that backboard and wax the play field. Then go enjoy your new game.

This is all normal for a coin operated toy.

This is a separate issue from quality of materials and manufacture. Such issues will always happen during manufacture. However, that these issues reached you, the consumer, buying NIB, speaks to some appallingly lax (or non-existent) QC.

Dude why don't you stop telling us what to think and what to do with our issues. Seriously get over yourself, it used to be you that you tried help folks with tech issues and stuff but lately you just post shit belittling people.

The post above that you quoted doesn't tell anyone what to think. It tells him what to do to solve his problem. I guess people here don't want solutions and just want to pump the cry thread though?

My NIB transformers was missing clear coat on 2/3rds of the PF. Like it was over sprayed and thats it. When I contacted Gomez directly via phone and Gary himself their solution was to send me a can of Krylon clear...... Take from that what you will.

Uh, well, clearly you are just a whiny baby that can't fix problems and likes to pump threads (or something like that).

Waxing an area of the playfield that has no clearcoat won't fix it.

Better qc would though.

But even suggesting that gets some people REALLY angry...so I won't.

I know your being facetious but I had to strip the whole game and lay 4 coats of ppg on it myself. Thats what set this dude on the TF rage that spread across the internet for years. Its also what got me banned from Stern property.

The photos he provided didn't show a playfield with no clear. It showed some duller spots in the clear where waxing will help.

The guy with transformers playfield issue was legit but contacting Gomez and Gary stern was not the solution. Contacting his distributor was. A single issue like this one sucks. But it doesn't mean stern quality has gone down hill. It's a one off. There will be several one off issues on any given run. They need to be handled. Simple problems like missing screws in a backboard don't warrant several visits to Pinside. Instead put some screws in and enjoy the game.

Yeah well my Distro sucked ass dude and didnt do SHIT! Hence why I no longer use him......

Don't be afraid to let us know who the sucky distributor was.

I'd hate to accidentally give a guy like that my money............

GAP!

ty!

I wasn't aware of these post limit rules...

What is the appropriate post limit when talking about a NIB pin you just got (positive or negative posts...I'm kicking myself now for all of the raving/positive posts I wrote about my NIB Metallica...ugh!)

Thanks for bearing me, I'm still learning!

Sounds like Stern forgot to include the rules about posting with your game, it should have been on a sheet stapled to the goodie bag. Damn that QC!

Lol. It's just the mentality. When I buy a game nib or used, it goes into my workshop not my house. There it gets cleaned and waxed (even if nib), play tested and tweaked as needed. Once perfect, it goes into the house. I've had to regap / align flippers, tighten screws, fix minor flow issues, all on nib games. It's just part of the experience.

I guess there are those that get the game and spend a few minutes or hours fixing it and are enjoying the game right away. Then there are others that get the game and spend days/weeks refusing to fix the game "because they paid so much stern should do it" and instead of enjoying their purchase they spend days / weeks in the forum crying. I guess it's clear which you are.

I waxed, fixed and then added a couple things things to it...then played the hell out of it (enjoying every moment) after that I posted a couple pics in a thread about stern quality issues.

None of this changes the fact that, in my opinion, a game shouldn't be shipped with the back of the playfield falling off (literally) and multiple material cosmetic issues. But we're all grown ass men and can agree to disagree.

Really not trying to upset anyone here but clearly I've hit a nerve with some, apologies for that...

Have you ever been shipped a game, then had to either re-clear a PF, or do a full playfield swap? 20-40 hours worth of work on a NIB is BS. Anybody should be able to do that math.

Even if I was retired and rich I would say full stop to that as a solution and chargeback my game and drop it off at the distro I bought if from. And I consider myself a reasonably reasonable guy.

Frickin baby.

Is this the mentality with all products you purchase, or do you just accept the quality is so dreadful at Stern? You do realize it's guys like you that are doing the most damage. Your average consumer needs a private shop and be willing to put a few hours labour in if he plunks down several grand on a NIB. That sound like a solid business model.

These aren't consumer products. These are vending machines (think washing machines). Made for commercial use only.

I'm sorry, but this argument simply doesn't fly with the premium/LEs. These games are marketed directly at the home user. Sure, a tiny percentage of them may wind up on route somewhere, but this doesn't change the fact that most of them will be going in people's homes.

That wasn't their song during the Stern Q and A at expo. They mentioned having different customers, Ops, Collectors, and novices that just want a machine in their home because it looks neat. You tell that novice/first time buyer that they need to tear down the playfield and see how that goes.

I don't think anyone will defend Stern over having to swap a playfield. That's legit.
Bummer when screws are missing but a simple call to either Stern or your distributor should be an easy fix.
Peeling decals is something that would piss me off though.
Hard to fix that.
In all fairness though, minor issues that can be fixed easily have to be considered part of pinball.
I've had major issues with Stern, JJP, and Heighway so it's hardly isolated to one manufacturer.

So, you're saying they are no longer "coin-op" games so it's okay to complain about NIB problems?