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(Topic ID: 184056)

Stern pricing ( remember the good old days )


By hoby1

3 years ago



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  • 51 posts
  • 28 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by wtatumjr
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    There are 51 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 3 years ago

    Not so long ago when LEs were real LEs with limited runs , packed with features , real backglasses, and water jetted multilayer powder coated hardware

    Hard to believe just 4 years ago

    IMG_6934 (resized).JPG

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    #2 3 years ago

    Not that i own any modern Stern games, but based on my observations it seems that not only has the price gone up, but the quality of the games has simultaneously gone down (cheaper build quality, clearcoat issues, games that need mods in order to work properly)...

    I was really close to buying my first Stern NIB, a Ghostbusters Premium... Really, really glad i didn't. I just couldn't stomach the possibility that i might lay out almost $7k for a game that either: doesn't work right out of the box or has clearcoat chipping/cracking. Yeah, they finally started swapping pf's, but who knows what's gonna break next? I know, it's pinball, stuff is gonna break. Still. Seeing stuff break that fast does not inspire confidence.

    Take this all with a grain of salt though, i don't have the kind of money some folks here do. $7k for me would have been a serious amount to drop on a game. I just figured if times ever got tough, I'd sell the game at a bit of a loss. That's probably the justification I'll use to buy an expensive pin one day, but it sure as hell won't be a modern Stern if they keep on putting out unfinished games (or games where you have to pray for code updates) with increasingly cheap build quality.

    #3 3 years ago

    Wont touch a new stern! No way in hell!

    #4 3 years ago
    Quoted from ccbiggsoo7:

    Wont touch a new stern! No way in hell!

    Why

    #5 3 years ago

    Then JJP came on the scene.

    #6 3 years ago

    Yeah when I first got serious in this hobby you wear able to buy pros under 4k. (AC/DC and xmen so 2012)

    that was not even 5 years ago

    #7 3 years ago

    I dont remember rhose days because I wasnt in the hobby at that time but I sure wish I would have been.

    #8 3 years ago
    Quoted from timtim:

    Yeah when I first got serious in this hobby you wear able to buy pros under 4k. (AC/DC and xmen so 2012)
    that was not even 5 years ago

    It's this way across the board....B/W DMD's were half what they are now 5 years ago

    #9 3 years ago
    Quoted from frunch:

    Not that i own any modern Stern games, but based on my observations it seems that not only has the price gone up, but the quality of the games has simultaneously gone down (cheaper build quality, clearcoat issues, games that need mods in order to work properly)...
    I was really close to buying my first Stern NIB, a Ghostbusters Premium... Really, really glad i didn't. I just couldn't stomach the possibility that i might lay out almost $7k for a game that either: doesn't work right out of the box or has clearcoat chipping/cracking. Yeah, they finally started swapping pf's, but who knows what's gonna break next? I know, it's pinball, stuff is gonna break. Still. Seeing stuff break that fast does not inspire confidence.
    Take this all with a grain of salt though, i don't have the kind of money some folks here do. $7k for me would have been a serious amount to drop on a game. I just figured if times ever got tough, I'd sell the game at a bit of a loss. That's probably the justification I'll use to buy an expensive pin one day, but it sure as hell won't be a modern Stern if they keep on putting out unfinished games (or games where you have to pray for code updates) with increasingly cheap build quality.

    The GB machines are fine now as far as I know so fo ahead and treat yourself to something awesome and beautiful. I just did and I love it, best pin ive ever played!

    #10 3 years ago
    Quoted from Gnatty:

    It's this way across the board....B/W DMD's were half what they are now 5 years ago

    yep

    #11 3 years ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    The GB machines are fine now as far as I know so fo ahead and treat yourself to something awesome and beautiful. I just did and I love it, best pin ive ever played!

    The clear isn't. The new games at Expo in Marcos booth all had chipping in the outholes. So after one day of playing the playfields are wearing down. I really do not care about the outhole but it surely is a sign to me that you will have chipping in other areas of the playfield sooner the later.

    -2
    #12 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    The clear isn't. The new games at Expo in Marcos booth all had chipping in the outholes. So after one day of playing the playfields are wearing down. I really do not care about the outhole but it surely is a sign to me that you will have chipping in other areas of the playfield sooner the later.

    I have heard of at least one Pro doing that. My Premium with a October playfield date is holding up great and I have a friend that also has a October playfield date that is fine. I also haven't heard of really any problems since the middle to the end of September. I think that clearly proves that the clearcoat problems have been mostly corrected. Of course you can find one somewhere I'm sure, but I think the worst is behind us and I personally am not afraid to buy a new Stern right now. That's just me though.

    #13 3 years ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    I have heard of at least one Pro doing that. My Premium with a October playfield date is holding up great and I have a friend that also has a October playfield date that is fine. I also haven't heard of really any problems since the middle to the end of September. I think that clearly proves that the clearcoat problems have been mostly corrected. Of course you can find one somewhere I'm sure, but I think the worst is behind us and I personally am not afraid to buy a new Stern right now. That's just me though.

    Well the new games at Arcade Expo in the Marco booth...Aerosmith two pros both had it. Two of The three GB premiums had it, the other one had a cliffhanger protector on it. the BM66's had it.

    #14 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    Well the new games at Arcade Expo in the Marco booth...Aerosmith two pros both had it. Two of The three GB premiums had it, the other one had a cliffhanger protector on it. the BM66's had it.

    That sucks I agree. Nothing a piece of Mylar or a protector won't fix though, and yes I know that people shouldn't have to do that so nobody needs to tell me. I 100 percent agree that it sucks. I'm not sure why that is a problem. I was actually thinking that you meant the right saucer or whatever you call it on the GB Pro. You're right, the outholes are still a problem and sometimes the shooter lane getting damaged also. The shooter lane damage is mostly due to how hard the ball gets ejected from the trough. Stern could save themselves a lot of trouble there if they would just turn the damn trough eject setting down some.

    #15 3 years ago

    Why Stern don't have factory mylar at outhole is a mystery as it would help hide the brittle clear coat.

    I was close to buying an Aero pro but then I remembered the cheap pegs, unfinished code, clear coat issues, ghosting, switch on backbox, noisy fan, cheap leds, failing node boards......... and I resisted the urge

    #16 3 years ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    That sucks I agree. Nothing a piece of Mylar or a protector won't fix though, and yes I know that people shouldn't have to do that so nobody needs to tell me. I 100 percent agree that it sucks. I'm not sure why that is a problem. I was actually thinking that you meant the right saucer or whatever you call it on the GB Pro. You're right, the outholes are still a problem and sometimes the shooter lane getting damaged also. The shooter lane damage is mostly due to how hard the ball gets ejected from the trough. Stern could save themselves a lot of trouble there if they would just turn the damn trough eject setting down some.

    You are probably right about the ball being ejected to hard as at the Marco booth one of the Ghostbusters had a dented Cliffy in the shooter lane. I was surprised at that and have never seen a dented one. I should have took pictures.

    #17 3 years ago

    I've bought three NIB Sterns. Each one has been great out of the box, including Ghostbusters.

    #18 3 years ago

    SMVE. November 2016 playfield. No issues. Dynadan can confirm as he was here last night playing it.

    #19 3 years ago
    Quoted from chadderack:

    SMVE. November 2016 playfield. No issues. Dynadan can confirm as he was here last night playing it.

    How about chipping here? I am just asking because at Arcade expo Aero, GB, and BM66 had it.

    IMG_0381 (resized).JPG

    #20 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    How about chipping here? I am just asking because at Arcade expo Aero, GB, and BM66 had it.

    Looks good to me. This is the best angle I can get with the glass on. Don't really feel like pulling off the glass to check, but I may at some point.

    Bonus shot of shooter lane side.

    IMG_1010 (resized).JPGIMG_1011 (resized).JPG

    14
    #21 3 years ago

    "The Good Old Days" regarding Stern games has a shorter lifespan period of time that most people's toddler children recently out of their cribs, not including the various features now omitted from games.

    Manufacturers try to blame it in BoM costs, but as an engineer responsible for many of the aspects of plastics, wood, electronics, and steel used in industrial manufacturing, the market inflation simply does not match.

    Game production costs have increased an average of $500 in the past 5 years, not $3500 even at small volumes of parts, because Stern has locked up parts supplier contracts in some cases.

    It is pure marketing opportunity.

    "Sorry, George not everybody is going to believe this reasoning, if we have been around as long as the present game designers."
    - TBK

    Watch the price bomb drop on AFMr prayer believers. It is going to funny to watch, even as some dig into their wallets.

    #22 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    I am just asking because at Arcade expo Aero, GB, and BM66 had it.

    To be fair, the two GBP's with JT's signature on them were from earlier LE PF runs in 2016.
    Sticker on the back of game was pre September 2016.
    Center GBP was from this year so, no insert issues or center drain chunks missing. The shooter lane eject went the first and second day firing at full power so, it did have a tiny bit of damage. I set it to the lowest on the final day when the owner was present with the keys.

    As for the other PF's?
    Maybe they were all made before October and thus, suffers from the same CC issue that GB did.

    #23 3 years ago

    The good old days was pre LE game when NIB and game like TZ and CV could be had for $3500

    #24 3 years ago
    Quoted from NimblePin:

    To be fair, the two GBP's with JT's signature on them were from earlier LE PF runs in 2016.
    Sticker on the back of game was pre September 2016.
    Center GBP was from this year so, no insert issues or center drain chunks missing. The shooter lane eject went the first and second day firing at full power so, it did have a tiny bit of damage. I set it to the lowest on the final day when the owner was present with the keys.
    As for the other PF's?
    Maybe they were all made before October and thus, suffers from the same CC issue that GB did.

    The games I was looking at were not in the buildings but the games at the Marco booth. I thought they were all new there but maybe not? I didn't look at the games inside.

    #25 3 years ago
    Quoted from chadderack:

    Looks good to me. This is the best angle I can get with the glass on. Don't really feel like pulling off the glass to check, but I may at some point.
    Bonus shot of shooter lane side.

    Looks good...I would put some Mylar down on your shooter lane just to keep it clean...it's cheap and will keep that black dust from getting pounded into the clear

    #26 3 years ago
    Quoted from hank527:

    Then JJP came on the scene.

    Yes and they gave out decals to cover damage on the play field. What a awesome alternative!!!

    #27 3 years ago

    I always got the distinct feeling that Gary loved money much more than he loved pinball -- and then BM66 came out and pretty much proved it.

    I am sad to have missed the days when TAF and TZ came out back to back... jam packed with new ideas, modes, shots, toys and so on.

    Stern hasn't innovated shit in all this time: except game rules, which are amazing (but I think their programmers deserve the credit for that one).

    #28 3 years ago

    I remember it very well here in Australia as do a number of my clients.

    You could import a NIB Stern such as a LOTRLE or a BIBLE from an overseas distributor, add shipping costs and all associated import fees plus an aftermarket Hertz conversion board to bypass the region lock and still have the total cost come in 1500-2000 under the local distributor MSRP for the same item.

    Nothing like monopolistic distributor chain collusion to stamp out the good old days of an open market.

    Local entry level price for a NIB Stern Aerosmith Pro is now $8350 which is more than what I paid for my BIBLE. The result is selling far fewer units and simply gouging the existing hardcore buyer pool harder to make up for the decline in sales revenue shortfall.

    This pricing methodology is just not sustainable in the long term.

    #29 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinsanity:

    I remember it very well here in Australia as do a number of my clients.
    You could import a NIB Stern such as a LOTRLE or a BIBLE from an overseas distributor, add shipping costs and all associated import fees plus an aftermarket Hertz conversion board to bypass the region lock and still have the total cost come in 1500-2000 under the local distributor MSRP for the same item.
    Nothing like monopolistic distributor chain collusion to stamp out the good old days of an open market.
    Local entry level price for a NIB Stern Aerosmith Pro is now $8350 which is more than what I paid for my BIBLE. The result is selling far fewer units and simply gouging the existing hardcore buyer pool harder to make up for the decline in sales revenue shortfall.
    This pricing methodology is just not sustainable in the long term.

    I dont know how you guys do at those prices. Im struggling to fork out what we are paying in the states now.

    #30 3 years ago
    Quoted from hoby1:

    I dont know how you guys do at those prices. Im struggling to fork out what we are paying in the states now.

    Most of us just stopped buying new in box. Better to let the guys who must have it buy it and take the hit when they get bored with shit code a couple of months later.

    #31 3 years ago

    My first NIB was Monopoly in 2001. IIRC it was $3,600 if I picked it up from the distributor.

    #32 3 years ago
    Quoted from Micky:

    Most of us just stopped buying new in box. Better to let the guys who must have it buy it and take the hit when they get bored with shit code a couple of months later.

    What hit?

    Any "hit" on HUO games these days is absolutely minimal. You are lucky to find an LE for $500 off cost and I don't remember the last time I saw a used pro here offered at any kind of substantial discount.

    Meanwhile you can get a brand new Aero for $5200. Far and away the best NIB deal in pinball in 2017.

    #33 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Meanwhile you can get a brand new Aero for $5200. Far and away the best NIB deal in pinball in 2017.

    If I didn't worry about all of Stern's quality control issues I would have already purchased one like I have done in the past.

    These days I wait for a mint HUO and pounce.

    #34 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    What hit?
    Any "hit" on HUO games these days is absolutely minimal. You are lucky to find an LE for $500 off cost and I don't remember the last time I saw a used pro here offered at any kind of substantial discount.
    Meanwhile you can get a brand new Aero for $5200. Far and away the best NIB deal in pinball in 2017.

    I have an empty lot at home and I'd snag one if I wanted a NIB for sure.

    I worry about QC though. Mechanical, electrical and tweaks are ok, but I don't trust the play fields yet.

    All they'd have to do is publicly state the issues, if any, would be handled and I'd probably dive back in.

    #35 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinsanity:

    I remember it very well here in Australia as do a number of my clients.
    You could import a NIB Stern such as a LOTRLE or a BIBLE from an overseas distributor, add shipping costs and all associated import fees plus an aftermarket Hertz conversion board to bypass the region lock and still have the total cost come in 1500-2000 under the local distributor MSRP for the same item.
    Nothing like monopolistic distributor chain collusion to stamp out the good old days of an open market.
    Local entry level price for a NIB Stern Aerosmith Pro is now $8350 which is more than what I paid for my BIBLE. The result is selling far fewer units and simply gouging the existing hardcore buyer pool harder to make up for the decline in sales revenue shortfall.
    This pricing methodology is just not sustainable in the long term.

    Which is the reason:

    #1 Stern is providing direct misleading information about "50% of all production runs are being shipped overseas" via marketing
    #2 The sales for NIB titles are slowing down, except for a few titles, and collector editions
    #3 The market is stalling out and many new HUO machines are sitting, and new owners are "looking the past" for cheaper alternatives.
    #4 3 out of 7 current manufacturers are the verge of insolvency, and without significant sales will bow out of the rat race. They cannot survive if the title fails.

    The period of new games competing against older titles is occurring once again.
    I am not going to argue that new owners will spluge all over themselves when Star Wars is announced.
    However, that does not save this industry, but can sustain a company for a short time.

    The impact to the boutique market is dramatic, although some people cannot see it quite yet.
    Stern lost a lot of old customers in the past few years, and I do not know if new owners make up the difference.

    It is not singularity regarding price, but value, quality and price.
    Right now you have the period of less features, lower overall production quality, and a higher offset price that does not correlate with anything logical to either inflation, materials, or even production runs.
    Why people want to buy new things with less innovation and features for 3X the cost, I do not know.

    Perhaps a new owner will make the argument that "hand drawn artwork" is the root cause.
    However, most older games already have that covered as well.

    #36 3 years ago

    I have been tracking the pricing for the last 7 years, check out this thread

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sterns-game-release-history

    -1
    #37 3 years ago
    Quoted from swinks:

    I have been tracking the pricing for the last 7 years, check out this thread
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sterns-game-release-history

    March / 2012 / AC/DC / Pro / $5699

    September / 2013 / Star Trek / Pro / $5395

    Bought both these games NIB and you prices quoted are a joke

    #38 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    How about chipping here? I am just asking because at Arcade expo Aero, GB, and BM66 had it.

    Oh, the humanity! Avert your eyes! LOL

    Kidding. That is so insignificant and easily preventable with mylar. You go ahead and stay hung up on that while I enjoy my inbound Aerosmith.

    #39 3 years ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    March / 2012 / AC/DC / Pro / $5699
    September / 2013 / Star Trek / Pro / $5395
    Bought both these games NIB and you prices quoted are a joke

    you need to work on your reading skillz

    Quoted from swinks:

    to capture the first press release MSRP prices

    #40 3 years ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    Watch the price bomb drop on AFMr prayer believers. It is going to funny to watch, even as some dig into their wallets.

    Pricing was just announced at $6500 for pro, $7400 premium and $8000 LE

    #41 3 years ago
    Quoted from Underspin:

    Pricing was just announced at $6500 for pro, $7400 premium and $8000 LE

    No $5500 machines, like many hoped, I was not enlightened, but tried to emphasize.
    I already knew the pricing/offset profit that I was trying to explain if people wanted to "trade up" and sell their originals, which was disagreed, but I cannot assist people anymore in areas of market publically.

    People will read the information I provide from commonly referenced printed documents every year.

    I also have decided to take a break from these forums, as I can get most of what I am interested from other resources and networking and there is little value and too many arguments from many uninformed people.
    I will still answer private mail, however.

    #42 3 years ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    Oh, the humanity! Avert your eyes! LOL
    Kidding. That is so insignificant and easily preventable with mylar. You go ahead and stay hung up on that while I enjoy my inbound Aerosmith.

    My concern is that the clear is garbage in real areas of the playfield and this is an indication to me that it could be. I could really care less about the drain hole or the shooter lane, but I think at these collector prices everyone is charging that you should get a quality product. I have confidence Stern will get all this ironed out and they have made great strides in the quality of these playfields in the last few months.

    #43 3 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    you need to work on your reading skillz

    thanks Whysnow

    JY64 - it's hard to capture real dealer prices so I just went with base line of MSRP launch prices as a gauge for years to come to look back on and compare because it is relative for each release and you can see the increases.

    #44 3 years ago

    By your chart Stern has raised prices %4 a yr wow they are going crazy

    #45 3 years ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    By your chart Stern has raised prices %4 a yr wow they are going crazy

    agree averaged out between 2010 and 2017 there has been a 29% increase in price = 4.14% a year but quite variable over the individual years.

    comparing the first Pro of each year in MSRP's
    2010 - $4799
    2011 - $4799 (0 %)
    2012 - $5699 (+ 18.5%)
    2013 - $4995 (- 12.5%)
    2014 - $5395 (+ 8%)
    2015 - $5495 (+ 2%)
    2016 - $5995 (+ 9%)
    2017 - $6199 (+ 3.5%)

    For LE's between 2010 and 2017 there has been a 50% increase in price = 7.14% a year but quite variable over the individual years.

    comparing the first LE's of each year in MSRP's
    2010 - $5999
    2011 - $5999 (0 %)
    2012 - $8499 (+ 41.5%)
    2013 - $7595 (- 11%)
    2014 - $8495 (+ 11%)
    2015 - $8595 (+ 1.5%)
    2016 - $8795 (+ 2.5%)
    2017 - $8999 (+ 3.5%)

    #46 3 years ago
    Quoted from swinks:

    agree averaged out between 2010 and 2017 there has been a 29% increase in price = 4.14% a year but quite variable over the individual years.
    comparing the first Pro of each year in MSRP's
    2010 - $4799
    2011 - $4799 (0 %)
    2012 - $5699 (+ 18.5%)
    2013 - $4995 (- 12.5%)
    2014 - $5395 (+ 8%)
    2015 - $5495 (+ 2%)
    2016 - $5995 (+ 9%)
    2017 - $6199 (+ 3.5%)

    That is a big jump. I was surprised when I was shopping for a GB Pro. Paid $5100.

    Stern's also come a long way from 2010. Aerosmith appears to offer more value than Avatar.

    #47 3 years ago
    Quoted from Allibaster:

    That is a big jump. I was surprised when I was shopping for a GB Pro. Paid $5100.
    Stern's also come a long way from 2010. Aerosmith appears to offer more value than Avatar.

    More value than TSPP or LOTR? When did those come out? I have both but forget the years I bought them.

    #48 3 years ago

    Name off the thread is wrong JJP Pricing {Remember The Good Old Days} the big price jumps come shortly after WOZ Jan 2011 $6500/$7500 & TH Nov 2012 $7500/$8000 I guess competition drove prices up not down well shit happens

    #49 3 years ago

    Competition drives prices down in a price war the only war in pinball has been to see who can charge the most

    #50 3 years ago
    Quoted from Manic:

    More value than TSPP or LOTR? When did those come out? I have both but forget the years I bought them.

    I was responding to the Pro pricing difference between 2010 (part of Stern's dark ages) to 2017. Aerosmith (2017) appears to be more game than Avatar (2017) and doesn't really deserve to be compared on price alone.

    But, you're right. TSPP and LOTR (both 2003) would easily be a Premium game nowadays and were likely much less than the price of the current Pro games.

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