Ann Arbor, MI
Quoted from alexanr1:Only problem with the inflation argument is...
Actually everything with it is wrong.
(Topic ID: 293154)
Quoted from VMAX:Dealers/distributors are already reportedly selling Mandalorian for a premium and/or best offer. I guess that’s Stern controlling pricing. LOL.
In all the circular logic of this thread, I still don't understand your point, even though you have tried to repeat it over and over. I mean, are you saying that Stern didn't control pricing? Are you saying we should all pay MSRP? Are you saying MSRP is the way to rate games? It just doesn't quite make sense.
Quoted from DaveH:In all the circular logic of this thread, I still don't understand your point, even though you have tried to repeat it over and over. I mean, are you saying that Stern didn't control pricing? Are you saying we should all pay MSRP? Are you saying MSRP is the way to rate games? It just doesn't quite make sense.
This thread was a general response to the rampant criticism of Stern being solely responsible for machine pricing increases over the last decade-ish. Even though Stern did implement the common practice of establishing a MAP (minimum advertised price), in no way can Stern be solely blamed for street prices going up.
Stern “managed” pricing to be within a range between MAP and MSRP. Distributors and dealers have been the ones detemining prices and making sales. Just because the margin from street price to MSRP has shrunk, it isn’t just because Stern is greedy and gouging the public.
What I’m ultimately saying is that the “old school” way of doing wholesale and retail business is no different than other industries who’ve made the shift from deeply discounted street prices to a more regulated margin. And the furor now over Mandalorian demonstrates what I’m saying. Dealers are up-charging already, and it has nothing to do with Stern. Stern has held the line on MSRPs while the street prices have shifted. And everyone seems to want pinball machines to remain $4000 with $20,000 worth of innovation and content.
If the increase in pricing were all Stern’s doing, no machines would have ever been sold above MAP pricing by dealers, and that’s not what has happened. About 1/3 of Pinside content is whining about manufacturer pricing and how horrible the new exploding market is. It gets tedious and ridiculously old.
You may want to continue this on the pricing thread, instead of bumping your own thread with the same observations over and over. Friendly suggestion, and I mean it as constructive criticism. You may also want to pull back on using the word “whining”. People complain, but you don’t know if they’re whining unless the complaint is coming out of the mouths.
Quoted from VMAX:This thread was a general response to the rampant criticism of Stern being solely responsible for machine pricing increases over the last decade-ish. Even though Stern did implement the common practice of establishing a MAP (minimum advertised price), in no way can Stern be solely blamed for street prices going up.
Stern “managed” pricing to be within a range between MAP and MSRP. Distributors and dealers have been the ones detemining prices and making sales. Just because the margin from street price to MSRP has shrunk, it isn’t just because Stern is greedy and gouging the public.
What I’m ultimately saying is that the “old school” way of doing wholesale and retail business is no different than other industries who’ve made the shift from deeply discounted street prices to a more regulated margin. And the furor now over Mandalorian demonstrates what I’m saying. Dealers are up-charging already, and it has nothing to do with Stern. Stern has held the line on MSRPs while the street prices have shifted. And everyone seems to want pinball machines to remain $4000 with $20,000 worth of innovation and content.
If the increase in pricing were all Stern’s doing, no machines would have ever been sold above MAP pricing by dealers, and that’s not what has happened. About 1/3 of Pinside content is whining about manufacturer pricing and how horrible the new exploding market is. It gets tedious and ridiculously old.
I think you haven't read enough here. That isn't the general sentiment at all. Most blame JJP for the start of the sharp upward trend in pricing.
Yes, people complain about the prices going up incrementally with each release (at times) but that is just normal cheapskate grumbling. I grumble every time gas prices go up .10 cents.
Quoted from VMAX:This thread was a general response to the rampant criticism of Stern being solely responsible for machine pricing increases over the last decade-ish. Even though Stern did implement the common practice of establishing a MAP (minimum advertised price), in no way can Stern be solely blamed for street prices going up.
Stern “managed” pricing to be within a range between MAP and MSRP. Distributors and dealers have been the ones detemining prices and making sales. Just because the margin from street price to MSRP has shrunk, it isn’t just because Stern is greedy and gouging the public.
What I’m ultimately saying is that the “old school” way of doing wholesale and retail business is no different than other industries who’ve made the shift from deeply discounted street prices to a more regulated margin. And the furor now over Mandalorian demonstrates what I’m saying. Dealers are up-charging already, and it has nothing to do with Stern. Stern has held the line on MSRPs while the street prices have shifted. And everyone seems to want pinball machines to remain $4000 with $20,000 worth of innovation and content.
If the increase in pricing were all Stern’s doing, no machines would have ever been sold above MAP pricing by dealers, and that’s not what has happened. About 1/3 of Pinside content is whining about manufacturer pricing and how horrible the new exploding market is. It gets tedious and ridiculously old.
You sure sound like someone who is representing Stern
Hahahaha 20k in inovations and content. Gtfoh they did not even include rgb lighting in the pro. Im a big smoker of trees and need what your smokin man.. Show me a couple hundred in inovations on the mando pin please.
You are not using logic man and the game is still only 4500 to me after all thier cost cutting ways
..
Quoted from VMAX:This thread was a general response to the rampant criticism of Stern being solely responsible for machine pricing increases over the last decade-ish. Even though Stern did implement the common practice of establishing a MAP (minimum advertised price), in no way can Stern be solely blamed for street prices going up.
Stern “managed” pricing to be within a range between MAP and MSRP. Distributors and dealers have been the ones detemining prices and making sales. Just because the margin from street price to MSRP has shrunk, it isn’t just because Stern is greedy and gouging the public.
What I’m ultimately saying is that the “old school” way of doing wholesale and retail business is no different than other industries who’ve made the shift from deeply discounted street prices to a more regulated margin. And the furor now over Mandalorian demonstrates what I’m saying. Dealers are up-charging already, and it has nothing to do with Stern. Stern has held the line on MSRPs while the street prices have shifted. And everyone seems to want pinball machines to remain $4000 with $20,000 worth of innovation and content.
If the increase in pricing were all Stern’s doing, no machines would have ever been sold above MAP pricing by dealers, and that’s not what has happened. About 1/3 of Pinside content is whining about manufacturer pricing and how horrible the new exploding market is. It gets tedious and ridiculously old.
Quoted from PinFever:Hahahaha 20k in inovations and content. Gtfoh they did not even include rgb lighting in the pro. Im a big smoker of trees and need what your smokin man.. Show me a couple hundred in inovations on the mando pin please.
You are not using logic man and the game is still only 4500 to me after all thier cost cutting ways
..
$4500 NIB, I’ll have some of what you’re smoking...we haven’t seen that price in 8 years.
Quoted from TheLaw:Pretty sure it June of 2016? Edit: Er Feb
You’re right my bad. I def got mine in feb. but yeah 2016.
Quoted from DaveH:In all the circular logic of this thread, I still don't understand your point, even though you have tried to repeat it over and over. I mean, are you saying that Stern didn't control pricing? Are you saying we should all pay MSRP? Are you saying MSRP is the way to rate games? It just doesn't quite make sense.
Are you saying MSRP is the way to rate games?
MSRP can be used at a baseline. I have seen a few people make the "thats not what i pay" arguement which doesnt mean that there wouldnt still be a price increase to distributors which might choose to swallow the cost.
A business has every right to charge what they want to charge for a product. Stern has said that there has been an increase in prices sourcing chips and lumber but chosen to keep the MSRP the same. A collector/consumer can scoff at the last price jump and shout "Im not paying that price" It happens in all the company forums.
Does Stern control pricing?
Yes (obviously) but no business should chose to run at a break even or a loss. Companies want profit and if it hasnt been obvious that the pandemic has increased the demand from the consumers which has been driving up prices on games why shouldnt a company increase cost if they choose to? Its not like they dont have people with money willing to pay for it.
Are you saying we should all pay MSRP?
You should pay market value which is whatever you can pay. JJP goes for 20K which is 13K more than MSRP, RnM sells for 2-4K over MSRP. NiB Sterns can sell for under MSRP.
As an operator I will pay what I think is worth it to have a machine in my arcade that customers are willing to pay. I will spend 10K on a RnM but wont spend 20K for a JJP and I am buying a Mando premium. I get the consumer argument as much as I dont agree with it because the problem is multifactor. Will Mando sell well? Yes regardless of how much complaining is done on pinside because there are far more people/operators who are fine with the prices than those complaining.
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:You sure sound like someone who is representing Stern
I represent the rational manufacturer, distirubutor, dealer industry perspective as well as the rational customer perspective.
I have no ties to Stern or any other pinball manufacturer. I did just make a deal to privately purchase 104 machines, and was glad to buy some at a discount and some at a premium.
Quoted from swampfire:You may want to continue this on the pricing thread, instead of bumping your own thread with the same observations over and over. Friendly suggestion, and I mean it as constructive criticism. You may also want to pull back on using the word “whining”. People complain, but you don’t know if they’re whining unless the complaint is coming out of the mouths.
Fair enough.
Quoted from Zablon:I think you haven't read enough here. That isn't the general sentiment at all. Most blame JJP for the start of the sharp upward trend in pricing.
Yes, people complain about the prices going up incrementally with each release (at times) but that is just normal cheapskate grumbling. I grumble every time gas prices go up .10 cents.
Fair enough.
Quoted from VMAX:Other than the early price jump from 2011 to 2012, the Stern pricing has been flat with only moderate increases. With Mandalorian reportedly holding the line at the same pricing as LZ and AIQ, Stern NIB price complaints are invalid and more applicable to the JJP and CGC secondary market and the used market. (For example, a January 2017 Aerosmith Pro was the same MSRP as the upcoming 2021 newest release. The September 2013 Star Trek LE was only $400 less than the latest LEs.)
PRO EDITIONS:
2020-12 Led Zeppelin Pro - $6,199
2020-09 Avengers: Infinity Quest Pro - $6,199
2020-05 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Pro - $6,099
2019-12 Stranger Things Pro - $6,099
2019-09 Elvira’s House of Horrors Pro - N/A
2019-07 Jurassic Park Pro - $5,999
2019-03 Black Knight: Sword of Rage Pro - $5,999
2019-01 The Munsters Pro - $5,999
2018-10 The Beatles Gold Edition - N/A
2018-08 Deadpool Pro - $5,999
2018-03 Iron Maiden Pro - $5,999
2017-10 Guardians of the Galaxy Pro - $6,199
2017-06 Star Wars Pro - $6,199
2017-01 Aerosmith Pro - $6,199
2016-08 Batman ‘66 Pro - N/A
2016-03 Ghostbusters Pro - $5,995
2015-09 Game of Thrones Pro - $5,995
2015-05 KISS Pro - $5,995
2015-01 WWE Wrestlemania Pro - $5,495
2014-09 The Walking Dead Pro - $5,995
2014-03 Mustang Pro - $5,395
2013-09 Star Trek Pro - $5,395
2013-04 Metallica Pro - $4,995
2012-11 Avengers Pro - $5,699
2012-06 X-Men Pro - $5,699
2012-03 AC/DC Pro - $5,699
2011-09 Transformers Pro - $4,795
2011-05 Tron: Legacy Pro - $4,799
2011-01 The Rolling Stones Pro - $4,799
2010-08 Avatar Pro - $4,799
LIMITED EDITIONS:
2020-12 Led Zeppelin Limited Edition - 500 (Blue) $9,199
2020-09 Avengers: Infinity Quest Limited Edition - 500 (Yellow) $9,199
2020-05 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Limited Edition - 500 (Green) $9,099
2019-12 Stranger Things Limited Edition - 500 (Purple) $9,099
2019-09 Elvira’s House of Horrors Limited Edition - 400 (Red) $9,599
2019-07 Jurassic Park Limited Edition - 500 (Green) $8,999
2019-03 Black Knight: Sword of Rage Limited Edition - 600 (Black) $8,999
2019-01 The Munsters Limited Edition - 600 (Black/Gold) $8,999
2018-10 The Beatles Platinum Edition - 250 (Platinum) $N/A
2018-08 Deadpool Limited Edition - 500 (Red) $8,999
2018-03 Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast Limited Edition - 500 (Red) $8,999
2017-10 Guardians of the Galaxy Limited Edition - 600 (Gold) $8,999
2017-06 Star Wars Limited Edition - 800 (Black) $8,999
2017-01 Aerosmith Limited Edition - 500 (Purple) $8,999
2016-08 Batman ‘66 Limited Edition - 240 (Black) $9,999
2016-03 Ghostbusters Limited Edition - 500 (Green) $8,795
2015-09 Game of Thrones Limited Edition - 700 (Black) $8,795
2015-05 KISS Limited Edition - 600 (Red) $8,795
2015-01 WWE Wrestlemania: Limited Edition - 400 (Gold) $8,595
2014-09 The Walking Dead Limited Edition - 600 (Red-Brown) $8,595
2014-03 Mustang “50 Years” Limited Edition - 500 (Blue) $8,495
2013-09 Star Trek USS Enterprise Limited Edition - 799 (Blue) $8,795
2013-04 Metallica: Master of Puppets Limited Edition- 500 (Silver) $7,595
2012-11 Avengers Blue Limited Edition - 250 (Blue) $8,099
2012-11 Avengers Hulk Limited Edition - 250 (Green) $8,099
2012-06 X-Men: Magneto Limited Edition - 250 (Red) $7,999
2012-06 X-Men: Wolverine Limited Edition - 250 (Blue) $7,999
2012-03 AC/DC: Let There Be Rock Limited Edition - 200 (Red) $8,499
2012-03 AC/DC: Back In Black Limited Edition - 300 (Black) $8,499
2011-09 Transformers: Combo Limited Edition - 500 (Red/Purple) $6,999
2011-05 Tron: Legacy Limited Edition - 400 (Black) $5,999
2011-01 The Rolling Stones Limited Edition - 350 (Silver) $5,999
2010-08 Avatar Limited Edition - 250 (Black) $5,999
western.gifQuoted from VMAX:I represent the rational manufacturer, distirubutor, dealer industry perspective as well as the rational customer perspective.
I have no ties to Stern or any other pinball manufacturer. I did just make a deal to privately purchase 104 machines, and was glad to buy some at a discount and some at a premium.
I’m not sure someone who buys 104 games at a time can represent the rational customer perspective
Just kidding, and congrats on the bulk deal.
Quoted from swampfire:I’m not sure someone who buys 104 games at a time can represent the rational customer perspective
Just kidding, and congrats on the bulk deal.
Yeah, I’m probably gonna retreat back into more of a lurking mode rather than a posting mode. I’ve got plenty to keep me busy, especially with the incoming machines. I’ll just leave the pricing perceptions alone. The market’s gonna do what it’s gonna do. I just can’t personally see Stern as responsible for Mandalorian’s street pricing going nuts. But I’ll keep that to myself.
I’m glad you’re actually one of the rational humans on Pinside. Kudos.
I’ve been following the Mandalorian price-gouging thread, and it’s just impossible to remain silent about the topic relative to this thread.
It’s horrible that Stern is solely responsible for the Dealer price-gouging (LOL). Bad Stern. Stern bad. It must all be Stern’s fault. Bwahahaha.
it's actually JJPs fault. He's the one that raised prices for NIB so high in the first place.
Quoted from VMAX:Wait... Stern has warranties? Who knew?!! LOL.
I have had a great experience with Stern and warranties. Parts shipped pretty quick. No complaints here.
Quoted from VMAX:I’ve been following the Mandalorian price-gouging thread, and it’s just impossible to remain silent about the topic relative to this thread.
It’s horrible that Stern is solely responsible for the Dealer price-gouging (LOL). Bad Stern. Stern bad. It must all be Stern’s fault. Bwahahaha.
Neo is right, Jack showed them we're like fish in a barrel..but with this new bs that dealers charging over MSRP You can thank Kaneda for that..
PS: I should also point out Cointaker was practicing this tactic under the table for a long time
Quoted from kvan99:Neo is right, Jack showed them we're like fish in a barrel..but with this new bs that dealers charging over MSRP You can thank Kaneda for that..
PS: I should also point out Cointaker was practicing this tactic under the table for a long time
True, but you’d have to be a complete ass to pay over MSRP on a new game from a distributor.
All the “MSRP means nothing, it’s all about street price (and that’s all Stern’s fault)” comments have been made by the same humans who gripe about over-MSRP “price gouging” by Dealers with no mention of Stern being at fault somehow.
If MSRP is meaningless, then over-MSRP should be a non-issue.
Ever’body wants super-low discounted street prices when the market is down or “normal”, but doesn’t want the resulting high street prices when the market is smokin’ hot. But I’m allegedly the one with circular reasoning because I say Stern isn’t solely to blame for street prices because they implement MAP and weeded out bottom-feeding Dealers. LOL.
Stern Stopped Dealers for selling them For what they wanted back in 2016 and they were not selling them for higher prices people. JJ was giving out good deals to his loyal clients / then Stern stepped in and made them all bow down to a certain price and granting no deal making it almost worth it to buy from local dealers / Not sure how this was JJP's fault
As far as the Hikes That is also on Stern for BM66 / The Con of the century /Lol A spike 1 game
At least JJP games are loaded for the higher price they were charging , and hey they need a little more money as they do not have the slave labor that of which stern carries . ha..
I need another beer and i do not drink often and here you see why
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