(Topic ID: 276728)

Stern price increase on ALL machines 1/1/2021

By Wanimal

1 year ago


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  • 358 posts
  • 128 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 30 days ago by pinballaddicted
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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    There are 358 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 8.
    #201 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Take a page out of the Stern and Spooky playbook and learn FOMO.

    Why? FOMO is horrible for buyers. I absolutely *hate* Stern using LE buyers as guinea pigs.

    LEs should be produced last and have the benefit of lessons learned during production. Instead Stern pulls crap like increasing the LE count for Munsters before everyone excited about the theme finds out its going to be neutered with “throwback” code as a clear cash grab and having Elvira LE owners drill their playfields to properly mount a key mechanism in the game.

    #202 1 year ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    Why? FOMO is horrible for buyers. I absolutely *hate* Stern using LE buyers as guinea pigs.
    LEs should be produced last and have the benefit of lessons learned during production. Instead Stern pulls crap like increasing the LE count for Munsters before everyone excited about the theme finds out its going to be neutered with “throwback” code as a clear cash grab and having Elvira LE owners drill their playfields to properly mount a key mechanism in the game.

    Ya, but you gotta admit, ehoh is a phenomenal game, wish I could find an le

    #203 1 year ago

    Look at the bright side, the dimples are free!

    #204 1 year ago

    I agree with CrazyLevi here. Pin prices go up every year, but I’m sure the cost of licenses have gone up (Stern is getting big licenses, maybe not full sound packages, but big licenses nonetheless) and there is a good bit of inflationary pressure on manufacturers. This comes not just from annual labor increases but also from other business disruptions (including various regulations) and cost of materials. I’m sure the LCD displays take a lot more labor than the dmd did to code for.

    Not an easy environment for any business these days. Still, no other manufacturer can meet the prices of a Stern pro. Everyone is free not to buy one or even play one, but you’ll be missing out on some great games.

    #205 1 year ago
    Quoted from woody76:

    yep, I have just as much fun playing my Big Game as any new machine.

    Old pinball for LIFE

    #206 1 year ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    Why? FOMO is horrible for buyers. I absolutely *hate* Stern using LE buyers as guinea pigs.
    LEs should be produced last and have the benefit of lessons learned during production. Instead Stern pulls crap like increasing the LE count for Munsters before everyone excited about the theme finds out its going to be neutered with “throwback” code as a clear cash grab and having Elvira LE owners drill their playfields to properly mount a key mechanism in the game.

    Some folks around here mistake themselves for owners rather than consumers.

    #207 1 year ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    Why? FOMO is horrible for buyers. I absolutely *hate* Stern using LE buyers as guinea pigs.
    LEs should be produced last and have the benefit of lessons learned during production. Instead Stern pulls crap like increasing the LE count for Munsters before everyone excited about the theme finds out its going to be neutered with “throwback” code as a clear cash grab and having Elvira LE owners drill their playfields to properly mount a key mechanism in the game.

    We are talking about selling games here from the manufacturers side.

    Why is Stern so successful and JJP not?

    The reasons are well documented.

    2nd, since I have an Elvira LE I have no idea what you are talking about drilling holes.

    3rd, like I said, JJP can either take a page out of the Stern playbook IF they can even execute OR continue to suck hind tit

    4th, I absolutely love Stern using me as an LE Guinea pig buyer. Zero problem with it

    1000% make the LEs first. Smart business move. Lock in the biggest margins and the guys paying the most play first.

    Finally, I agree about the Munsters LE raise, total BS move and don’t think you will see that again. Avengers LE would have been an easy raise to 750 but then they lose my sale and I’m sure many others

    #208 1 year ago
    Quoted from usandthem:

    Some folks around here mistake themselves for owners rather than consumers.

    Very true... consumers of what is frankly a luxury product/toy.

    People who can afford a NIB complaining about paying an extra $100 is pretty funny.

    #209 1 year ago
    Quoted from Wanimal:

    I saw this on Facebook from a distributor. It looks like the $100 price increase to Avengers will be retroactive on all machines beginning New year. I am newer to the hobby and actually just got my first Stern (Star Trek Pro). It's only my second machine after a WCS 94 and I couldn't believe how much cheaper it was made. No support rails for the playfield, plastic apron, stamped metal back box, etc.
    Kind of ridiculous they're increasing prices across the board while they continuously cut corners. Icarus is flying too close to the sun.
    [quoted image]

    Stern Pros have come with service rails for the last couple years. Star Trek is a 2013 title, just so you know.

    #210 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    You don't "get more" when it comes to code and fun factor. Those are two very BIG tangible aspects of actually playing pinball.

    I disagree. In my opinion, the materials put into a game are tangible, "fun factor" is subjective.

    Unfortunately, at today's prices I'm not going to open my wallet unless I'm okay with every aspect of the game (mechs, components, build quality, art, code, sound, fun factor and theme).

    #211 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    We are talking about selling games here from the manufacturers side.

    I’m not disagreeing it’s not good for Stern; It just sucks from the customer side.

    Quoted from iceman44:

    I have an Elvira LE I have no idea what you are talking about drilling holes.

    The VUK assembly (Ray gun) on all LEs and the early Premiums is mounted incorrectly. To properly correct the error and allow the VUK to fire as intended requires physically rotating the assembly and securing it in a new location which requires a new mounting location for the base which requires a new screw hole which, for me, requires drilling a hole in the playfield.

    Quoted from iceman44:

    I absolutely love Stern using me as an LE Guinea pig buyer.

    What benefit do you get being a guinea pig? Other than getting the game a little earlier.

    #212 1 year ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    I’m not disagreeing it’s not good for Stern; It just sucks from the customer side.

    The VUK assembly (Ray gun) on all LEs and the early Premiums is mounted incorrectly. To properly correct the error and allow the VUK to fire properly requires physically rotating the assembly and securing it in a new location which requires a new mounting location for the base which requires a new screw hole which, for me, requires drilling a hole in the playfield.

    Now I recall someone mentioning that.

    On my LE the Vuk fires the way it’s supposed to unless I’m missing something

    I’ve had some minor issues but solid overall

    Quoted from Jvspin:

    I disagree. In my opinion, the materials put into a game are tangible, "fun factor" is subjective.
    Unfortunately, at today's prices I'm not going to open my wallet unless I'm okay with every aspect of the game (mechs, components, build quality, art, code, sound, fun factor and theme).

    I get it. Everyone’s priorities are different.

    I’m just not going to miss out on a fun theme and great game because of a few things that don’t matter to me

    Life is too short.

    #213 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    I’m just not going to miss out on a fun theme and great game because of a few things that don’t matter to me

    Life is too short.

    Sounds like you have your priorities straight.

    I also try to only worry about the things that mattter to me.

    #214 1 year ago
    Quoted from Jvspin:

    I disagree. In my opinion, the materials put into a game are tangible, "fun factor" is subjective.
    Unfortunately, at today's prices I'm not going to open my wallet unless I'm okay with every aspect of the game (mechs, components, build quality, art, code, sound, fun factor and theme).

    This is exactly how I feel about the subject. I will add that if I just started in the pinball hobby in the last 10 years owning only new machines I might not see the quality difference. My first machines were from the early 90’s and that is a comparison I have to make personally. Going backwards in materials used and build quality just makes me feel like I am not getting good value. I will never believe that current pins can’t be made with similar high quality materials and the great build quality I saw in the 90’s. We are not talking about some future technology we don’t know about yet to make great quality pins. It was already done in the past so some of us know we could have it if pin companies had the will to do it. That is the frustration for me.

    #215 1 year ago
    Quoted from Jvspin:

    Unfortunately, at today's prices I'm not going to open my wallet unless I'm okay with every aspect of the game (mechs, components, build quality, art, code, sound, fun factor and theme).

    Well then u lose out. I get it but good luck finding a machine where ur "ok; with every aspect.

    #216 1 year ago

    I gotta say, I like my Jp premium 2019 build quality better than my Tron 2011 build quality 100% also like the art package on my JP prem playfield WAY more... and the code on tron is alot of fun for what it is, but JP is much more advanced. The LCD screen may cost less than a the DMD and most definitely my Color DMD, But the team building the display storyline and animations puts in a higher end product into these machines. In my eyes they are worth more money for programming the new machines but all of my ramblings are my opinions.

    I do however wish my backbox on spike2 titles was built from hardwood and not stamped out, but from a gameplay perspective I can't tell you I feel any difference in that regard. I do however HATE those posts they were using on playfields instead of service rails and IM SO HAPPY THEY MADE THE CHOICE TO BRING THEM BACK! AND TO REINFORCE THEIR CABINETS my Ghostbusters premium was splitting at the seam and I was in the belief I did something to the cab, until I saw the quality of the build. Anyways I don't mind paying for keith elwins designed machines, add zombie yeti on the art, and Josh clay on the graphic art programming the animations... I'll gladly pay for the machine. I have a JJP pirates playfield sitting under my bed because of quality issues... That machine was the most My wife and I have ever paid for a machine. I love how the game shoots, the code and RGB lighing are phenomenal but I LOVE HOW QUICKLY STERN IS ABLE TO OFFER ME A NEW THEME FROM MY FAVORITE DESIGNER IN PINBALL. I also feel like there is value in the options we all get each year VS. Waiting multiple years for other manufacturers to produce one machine.

    #217 1 year ago

    IMO they don't produce inferior products. Look at what Williams was doing in the 70s-80s when they were riding high. There's no comparison.

    Hell, even Gottlieb was better engineered than Bally or Williams in that era and they were bleeding money.

    But if you want the best, then maybe go with a JJP for 9K. Not a game in their current lineup that really draws in the pedestrian, but that's just me.

    #218 1 year ago

    This hobby priced me out quite a while ago.
    One of the problems is, if you insist your SEGA Frankenstein is worth 3,900 dollars, NIB games are only going to go up and up and up....

    #219 1 year ago
    Quoted from pb456:

    IMO they don't produce inferior products. Look at what Williams was doing in the 70s-80s when they were riding high. There's no comparison.
    Hell, even Gottlieb was better engineered than Bally or Williams in that era and they were bleeding money.
    But if you want the best, then maybe go with a JJP for 9K. Not a game in their current lineup that really draws in the pedestrian, but that's just me.

    Problem with this analogy is B/W continued to make better and better machines as time went on. By the late 80’s into the early 90’s B/W made the best build quality machines we have ever seen. Stern’s quality has actually gone backwards since the early 2000’s. How that is not a problem for people I have no idea.

    #220 1 year ago
    Quoted from Extraballz:

    Problem with this analogy is B/W continued to make better and better machines as time went on. By the late 80’s into the early 90’s B/W made the best build quality machines we have ever seen. Stern’s quality has actually gone backwards since the early 2000’s. How that is not a problem for people I have no idea.

    Until B/W went out of the pinball manufacturing business of course....

    #221 1 year ago
    Quoted from tamoore:

    This hobby priced me out quite a while ago.
    One of the problems is, if you insist your SEGA Frankenstein is worth 3,900 dollars, NIB games are only going to go up and up and up....

    I always thought of it the other way around. NIB goes up, so everything used goes up.

    #222 1 year ago

    “Accept certain inalienable truths: prices will rise, politicians will philander, you too will get old-- and when you do, you’ll fantasize that when you were young prices were reasonable, politicians were noble and children respected their elders“

    -Bahz Luhrmann

    #223 1 year ago
    Quoted from Chambahz:

    “Accept certain inalienable truths: prices will rise, politicians will philander, you too will get old-- and when you do, you’ll fantasize that when you were young prices were reasonable, politicians were noble and children respected their elders“
    -Bahz Luhrmann

    Great!!!

    #224 1 year ago
    Quoted from Chambahz:

    you too will get old--

    Politicians were never noble.

    It's the getting old part that really has me rethinking a lot about what i worry about and what matters.

    I think i'm going through a mid life crisis! I just want to play these games and then i'll move em on down the road later and not worry about taking a financial hit. Getting the "play value" is worth a LOT to me.

    #225 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    It's the getting old part that really has me rethinking a lot about what i worry about and what matters.

    Wait until you get there. You will be surprised how your thinking will change as you can no longer ignore and deny your own mortality. Each day you will wake up and wonder if this day will be your last. You go on with life but there is always that nagging thought; Especially when you scope out the obits and see that at least half the people on those pages were way younger than you are.

    Eventually you will get to the point that all of the stuff you lusted after is now just junk on the shelf that has to be dusted off. You will get to the point that no value, no amount of money, will surpass the value of a good conversation with friends and strangers.

    #226 1 year ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    Until B/W went out of the pinball manufacturing business of course....

    And they were cutting corners by the mid 90's as well.

    #227 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Politicians were never noble.
    It's the getting old part that really has me rethinking a lot about what i worry about and what matters.
    I think i'm going through a mid life crisis! I just want to play these games and then i'll move em on down the road later and not worry about taking a financial hit. Getting the "play value" is worth a LOT to me.

    Not really a financial hit, you're putting virtual dollars in every time you play. Saw on here a munsters for $4 per play in Florida, but at an avg of a buck a play, and no travel or people to deal with, it makes these cheap entertainment. Compared to a vacation, car, etc,,,

    #228 1 year ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    Wait until you get there. You will be surprised how your thinking will change as you can no longer ignore and deny your own mortality. Each day you will wake up and wonder if this day will be your last. You go on with life but there is always that nagging thought; Especially when you scope out the obits and see that at least half the people on those pages were way younger than you are.
    Eventually you will get to the point that all of the stuff you lusted after is now just junk on the shelf that has to be dusted off. You will get to the point that no value, no amount of money, will surpass the value of a good conversation with friends and strangers.

    cotton, your collection doesn't seem like you are old, im guessing 60s? Like me? We are just getting started!!!

    #229 1 year ago

    I don't know if a price increase will hurt Stern or not. Hopefully it helps stabilize the company.
    Most people here have no idea how much money it cost to get a game like Avengers out to the
    public. Business like to earn money and that is how they survive, hire new talent and all that.

    I wonder what Stern's sale #s look like. Hopefully #s are still strong and we can continue to be
    fortunate to have so much going on in this hobby. Lets hope 2021 is business as usual though.

    #230 1 year ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    Well then u lose out. I get it but good luck finding a machine where ur "ok; with every aspect.

    I'm okay with that. I already have games that tick all my boxes so the bar is set pretty high if I'm going to pay up.

    #231 1 year ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    Wait until you get there. You will be surprised how your thinking will change as you can no longer ignore and deny your own mortality. Each day you will wake up and wonder if this day will be your last. You go on with life but there is always that nagging thought; Especially when you scope out the obits and see that at least half the people on those pages were way younger than you are.
    Eventually you will get to the point that all of the stuff you lusted after is now just junk on the shelf that has to be dusted off. You will get to the point that no value, no amount of money, will surpass the value of a good conversation with friends and strangers.

    Your post kinda bummed me out. Til I saw your collection of amazing classic Stern pins. I guess there’s pros and cons, depending on the day, huh? There are some benefits to having experience over youth.
    Also, it’s not how old you are but how old you feel/act!
    Happy flipping.

    #232 1 year ago
    Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

    I don't know if a price increase will hurt Stern or not. Hopefully it helps stabilize the company.
    Most people here have no idea how much money it cost to get a game like Avengers out to the
    public. Business like to earn money and that is how they survive, hire new talent and all that.
    I wonder what Stern's sale #s look like. Hopefully #s are still strong and we can continue to be
    fortunate to have so much going on in this hobby. Lets hope 2021 is business as usual though.

    I have no dought Sterns been hurt with the number of arcades and barcades closed

    #233 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    It's the getting old part that really has me rethinking a lot about what i worry about and what matters.

    So true.

    #234 1 year ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    I have no dought Sterns been hurt with the number of arcades and barcades closed

    I have my doubts it's hurt that much. Seems like business as usual over there.

    Home sales are through the roof. I know many people who NEVER before talked about buying games and they've pulled the trigger the last few months. Gotta do something with that canceled vacation trip money.

    #235 1 year ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    Wait until you get there. You will be surprised how your thinking will change as you can no longer ignore and deny your own mortality. Each day you will wake up and wonder if this day will be your last. You go on with life but there is always that nagging thought; Especially when you scope out the obits and see that at least half the people on those pages were way younger than you are.
    Eventually you will get to the point that all of the stuff you lusted after is now just junk on the shelf that has to be dusted off. You will get to the point that no value, no amount of money, will surpass the value of a good conversation with friends and strangers.

    I'm there right now. 30 years old with end stage cancer. Crazy how fast your outlook on life changes when faced with impending mortality. All I care about is spending time with my daughter and wife. I use pinball and politics as a distraction when I need to. I care about less than I ever have and am happier than I've ever been. Crazy how that works.

    #236 1 year ago
    Quoted from Wanimal:

    I'm there right now. 30 years old with end stage cancer. Crazy how fast your outlook on life changes when faced with impending mortality. All I care about is spending time with my daughter and wife. I use pinball and politics as a distraction when I need to. I care about less than I ever have and am happier than I've ever been. Crazy how that works.

    Hey, hope you doing ok, been thru that stuff too.

    #237 1 year ago
    Quoted from Hayfarmer:

    Hey, hope you doing ok, been thru that stuff too.

    Thanks man! I've been through 2 transplants, 6 types of chemo, and starting my second type of radiation in a couple of weeks. Still kickin' though! Just take it day by day, and stop what I'm doing to play a game or two on occasion

    I actually have a little blog going at waltsthoughts.com if you're interested. Haven't posted in a few months, but writing things out has definitely helped me along.

    #238 1 year ago

    I've found a good positive attitude really helps. SO STAY OFF PINSIDE!! But if you can deal with peoples attitude here sometimes, its a good distraction

    #239 1 year ago
    Quoted from Extraballz:

    Stern’s quality has actually gone backwards since the early 2000’s. How that is not a problem for people I have no idea.

    That is ridiculous.

    #240 1 year ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    That is ridiculous.

    Yeah I don't see anybody here clamoring for a return to the Sharkey's Shootout/Striker Extreme days.

    #241 1 year ago
    Quoted from Jvspin:

    I'm okay with that. I already have games that tick all my boxes so the bar is set pretty high if I'm going to pay up.

    I can respect that.

    #242 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Yeah I don't see anybody here clamoring for a return to the Sharkey's Shootout/Striker Extreme days.

    which is a big part of prices going up...

    everything now is a licensed theme and they need to recoup their money on those fees.

    I would imagine one of the bigger expenses per game is the license.

    #243 1 year ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    which is a big part of prices going up...
    everything now is a licensed theme and they need to recoup their money on those fees.
    I would imagine one of the bigger expenses per game is the license.

    It's not rocket science.

    Everything goes up in price every year.

    Supply costs go up. Labor costs go up, from the guys designing games to the people assembling them on the lines to the truck drivers hauling games to the airport or distributors. I guess people here don't think designers like Keith and all the people involved in designing, building, and distributing these mega successful games should get raises every year, but I'd guess these employees - and management - disagree.

    People here really think the extra $100 they need to spend on a new game every year just goes to buy Gary Stern another ivory backscratcher. WHy aren't they sending angry letters to the Frito Lay CEO over the fact that a bag of Doritos goes up 10 cents a year? WHy aren't they bitching at the cable company for the annual $9 increase in their bill? Are you on some La-Z-boy forum ranting about the fact that the Murray Recliner with built in cooler and massage rollers went up $30 this year?

    WHy do people here seem to think the laws of finance and inflation apply to everything but pinball, and that these MEAGER nominal annual price increases are some kind of a personal affront and cash grab?

    Are pinball people really that stupid they can't understand what is going on here? Stop trying to isolate pinball from everything else in the world. Pinball is not some magical product assembled on a secret island by slave labor Oompa Loompas where they are immune to the same financial pressures and cost of living adjustments as everybody else, and every price increase is somehow 100 percent padded profit. You are making fools of yourselves and inviting ridicule!
    snap.gif

    And yes, I just posted a Cher gif. My mom makes us watch this goddamn movie every Thanksgiving!

    #244 1 year ago

    If it's such an issue, maybe people should boycott buying NIB. That'll show those greedy, no-good folks at Stern!

    Remember when people boycotted coffee cups because they were red (but certainly not because they increase prices each year, of course.)

    #245 1 year ago
    Quoted from SunnRAT:

    If it's such an issue, maybe people should boycott buying NIB. That'll show those greedy, no-good folks at Stern!
    Remember when people boycotted coffee cups because they were red (but certainly not because they increase prices each year, of course.)

    Boycot NIB... never gonna happen.

    How long did it take Avengers LE to sell out? half a day? guess no boycott.

    #246 1 year ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    That is ridiculous.

    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Yeah I don't see anybody here clamoring for a return to the Sharkey's Shootout/Striker Extreme days.

    Lord of the Rings was 2003. You two were saying....

    4204E77B-4104-446D-B9C7-0282594AF74D (resized).jpeg
    -2
    #247 1 year ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    That is ridiculous.

    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Yeah I don't see anybody here clamoring for a return to the Sharkey's Shootout/Striker Extreme days.

    There are some big pro's to Stern's made 15+ years ago. Direct printed cabinets versus cheap decals, the head being made entirely out of wood versus sheet metal + wood, a proper lock down bar mech, proper head latch, higher playfield quality, and features not being limited to only premium / LE games.

    I'll agree that Stern's themes, code, and fun factor are generally all better then what they were 15-20 years ago. However, the quality isn't what it once was, features once included on the standard game are now only on premium / LE models, and there's been a wealth of cost cutting features (above) and price increases along the way.

    Stern is making some incredibly fun titles but the point myself and others are trying to make is that they are not worth the price considering what you get with the quality being offered. Hell if money was no option I would buy every game they put out. For $6k - $9k+ for a pinball machine of all things playfield quality should be among the best in the industry...not the worst.

    #248 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Yeah I don't see anybody here clamoring for a return to the Sharkey's Shootout/Striker Extreme days.

    Dude, those games were so fucking heavy...it was an amazingly heavy time.

    #249 1 year ago
    Quoted from Elvishasleft:

    Boycot NIB... never gonna happen.
    How long did it take Avengers LE to sell out? half a day? guess no boycott.

    Well yeah, of course not. That was kinda my point, with everything that bothers people, they will still keep selling out.

    Boycotts are for people who were suckers to begin with.

    #250 1 year ago
    Quoted from Extraballz:

    Lord of the Rings was 2003. You two were saying....

    Oh I'm sorry u didn't get it the first time? I was saying "'Ridiculous"

    There are 358 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 8.

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