(Topic ID: 276728)

Stern price increase on ALL machines 1/1/2021

By Wanimal

1 year ago


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  • Latest reply 30 days ago by pinballaddicted
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    There are 358 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 8.
    #151 1 year ago

    Some of you talk about how you will buy used and not new. But for you to buy used, someone has to step up and buy new.
    ———————-

    I’m a retired baby boomer. I needed a hobby that will keep me busy as I get older and don’t get out of the house as much as I used to.

    There are a lot of baby boomers retiring.

    Someone earlier said Deep Pockets. The house is paid for. The kids have left home. You think about laying the old lady more than actually getting with the program.

    Some head to the golf course but greens fees are not at bargain basement pricing. By the time you add up green fees, drinks at the golf club and all of the lost balls, golf is not exactly cheap.

    Fishing? That’s a lot of money to spend when the fish aren’t biting.

    Hunting? Too much work. I’ll just go buy a rib eye at the meat counter.

    If you don’t like to hunt or fish and your musical talents limit you to playing a kazoo, what else is there besides a pin or two filling up the house?

    I think Stern is tapping that baby boomer action.

    I find very little beats waking up on cold day, firing up a pin or two, brewing a pot of coffee, and get the blood flowing with some pinball.

    I also find very little beats waking up on a hot day, brewing a pitcher of iced tea and playing some pinball.

    Am I Stern’s target market? Not directly because I rarely buy anything brand new. I’m the used buyer that helps you raise some cash so you can go buy another new pin.
    ———————

    I also like how some have 35 pins in their collection, built a new room addition for the pin hobby, brag about what whiz-bang pin they brought home, and then whine about prices while being too cheap to donate to Pinside.
    ———————-

    Deeproot to me is Deep who? A pipe dream at this point in time.
    ————————

    I also like how some talk about Stern would do better if it would lower its prices. Marketing 101 will teach you that competing on price is not the best marketing strategy. Don’t agree with that?

    When has anybody heard of Apple lowering its prices to “grab market share” for its iPhone and Mac Pros.
    Now the world’s largest company by market capitalization with a huge pile of cash, Apple did not get there by rock bottom pricing.

    Here is how Apple did it. In 2000-2001, Apple hits the market with a 22” flat screen monitor prices at $4000.00 for all of the early adopters out there. Then the 17” monitor came on at $1000.00.

    At the time no other screen maker could match the Apple flat screens for color and clarity.

    Time progressed and the other screen makers caught up to Apple and prices started coming down.

    Apple exited the flat screen monitor business and let the others beat each other up.

    Stern is following Apple’s business model as much as possible, IMO.

    #152 1 year ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    Compare a wonka/DI standard to a tmnt premium.

    Who cares about that? I would take the one I enjoy playing the most, the fact that its feels substantial is inconsequential to my fun factor.

    -2
    #153 1 year ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    Who cares about that? I would take the one I enjoy playing the most, the fact that its feels substantial is inconsequential to my fun factor.

    At some point though do you ask yourself "What the hell I'm I paying $6k - $9k+ for" when it comes to Stern games? Does getting value for your money matter?

    What Stern has been doing with their game prices is the equivalent of Ford charging $50k for a Ford Focus because GM charges that for a Corvette...

    #154 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Well don’t you think you should? Surely you are performing well enough that you deserve a measly cost of living increase annually.
    Or else your pay is actually going down every year.

    My point exactly. You can’t assume everyone is getting cost of living or any raise to match the increase in pinball prices. I think that is/was the hole in your logic.

    #155 1 year ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    Who cares about that? I would take the one I enjoy playing the most, the fact that its feels substantial is inconsequential to my fun factor.

    So if you like tmnt and di equally, you would be good paying the same price for them and feel like the value is the same?

    #156 1 year ago
    Quoted from thedarkknight77:

    Wait???? What happened to Chaz??? After losing Patrick, we cannot lose Chaz. These guys were the only two that cared about us buyers.

    He passed away recently.

    #157 1 year ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    At some point though do you ask yourself "What the hell I'm I paying $6k - $9k+ for" when it comes to Stern games? Does getting value for your money matter?
    What Stern has been doing with their game prices is the equivalent of Ford charging $50k for a Ford Focus because GM charges that for a Corvette...

    Many years ago, GM priced its Suburban at "regular average Joe" prices. And then GM figured out that a lot of the Chevy Suburban buyers were wealthy and very wealthy. Rich parents taking the kids on vacation, maybe the soccer moms' were filling it up. Once GM figured out where its market was really at, the prices went up.

    15
    #158 1 year ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    So if you like tmnt and di equally, you would be good paying the same price for them and feel like the value is the same?

    Yes. I do not base the value of a pin on its build quality, obviously with in reason. I've played DI quite a bit and much prefer BKSOR, I wouldn't buy DI because it has more BOM value, means nothing to me. I play 4 fun nothing more. It seems lots of u guys look at it as an investment.

    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    At some point though do you ask yourself "What the hell I'm I paying $6k - $9k+ for" when it comes to Stern games? Does getting value for your money matter?

    The value is in how much I enjoy something, I'm not buying a house. Also I don't share the JJP is "leaps and bounds" better than a Stern when it comes to quality or any other manufacturer. I have bought a lot of Sterns and really not too many issue's not to mention JJP has had their fair share of problems. I purchase pinball machines based on Theme and Fun Factor. The amount of toys and colorful lights and weight doesn't equal "fun" for me.

    #159 1 year ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    Yes. I do not base the value of a pin on its build quality, obviously with in reason. I've played DI quite a bit and much prefer BKSOR, I wouldn't buy DI because it has more BOM value, means nothing to me. I play 4 fun nothing more. It seems lots of u guys look at it as an investment.

    The value is in how much I enjoy something, I'm not buying a house. Also I don't share the JJP is "leaps and bounds" better than a Stern when it comes to quality or any other manufacturer. I have bought a lot of Sterns and really not too many issue's not to mention JJP has had their fair share of problems. I purchase pinball machines based on Theme and Fun Factor. The amount of toys and colorful lights and weight doesn't equal "fun" for me.

    Agree completely. Have owned 5 nib sterns and 3 used, no issues except 1 node board for shaker, was replaced in 10 days. No pooling, chipping. I buy what I like and don't criticize what I don't buy. All pins are fun, to me some way more than others. R&M to me wasn't appealing, I played it and it was OK, but not interested. I do not think it was head and shoulders above stern in quality. It did have a nice set of speakers tho

    #160 1 year ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    Yes. I do not base the value of a pin on its build quality, obviously with in reason. I've played DI quite a bit and much prefer BKSOR, I wouldn't buy DI because it has more BOM value, means nothing to me. I play 4 fun nothing more. It seems lots of u guys look at it as an investment.

    The value is in how much I enjoy something, I'm not buying a house. Also I don't share the JJP is "leaps and bounds" better than a Stern when it comes to quality or any other manufacturer. I have bought a lot of Sterns and really not too many issue's not to mention JJP has had their fair share of problems. I purchase pinball machines based on Theme and Fun Factor. The amount of toys and colorful lights and weight doesn't equal "fun" for me.

    100% in agreement! My buddy owned a game from a different manufacturer (no need to point fingers, right?) and during one particularly long playing game, intentionally avoided the extra ball shot because he just didn’t want to play any longer. Game was boring and was sold not long thereafter. Built like a tank though!

    A game is fine if it’s reliable and plays without issues, in my opinion. It must be free of defects, and play as the designer intended. I don’t give extra points for a game just because you need an extra person to move it.

    #161 1 year ago

    People forget that these things are luxury toys. If you don’t want to pay luxury prices you can rent them or play them on location. This isn’t playing the stock market. You aren’t making investments. You are buying toys. Toys are going to break as you play with them. Especially when that toy involves a steel ball running into things at high velocity.

    14
    #162 1 year ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    At some point though do you ask yourself "What the hell I'm I paying $6k - $9k+ for" when it comes to Stern games? Does getting value for your money matter?
    What Stern has been doing with their game prices is the equivalent of Ford charging $50k for a Ford Focus because GM charges that for a Corvette...

    Thats a joke I will take a $7,699 Avengers premeum over a $9,500 Wonka any day

    -5
    #163 1 year ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    So if you like tmnt and di equally, you would be good paying the same price for them and feel like the value is the same?

    DI could have been great but who the hell wants a game about a cell phone a waist of what could have been a good game. What makes this the best JJP game in my eyes is there are not 100 modes. When playing this game you have to start and play a mode other JJP games just play for several minnets you will look up and see several modes clear that is crap

    #164 1 year ago
    Quoted from elcolonel:

    From July to August lumber jumped 29%. The same house I framed in July, was $7800 cheaper for the framing lumber, than in August...Ouch....

    Lumber prices here jumped over 200% in the last couple of months. It's nuts.
    I build houses for a living, might not be for much longer at these prices.

    #165 1 year ago

    If you were a manufacturer like Stern and put out a new machine like Heavy metal in June, One that I definitely would have paid 8 gran for, its already sold out and its only September. 300 units in less then 4 months. I think you would look at that market and say to yourself , lets see how far we can take this and get what we can get while the getting is good. Any Accountant would tell you that.....if your'e selling stuff that fast

    #166 1 year ago
    Quoted from thedarkknight77:

    Wait???? What happened to Chaz???

    Sadly died a month or two ago.

    LTG : (

    #167 1 year ago

    It's funny that people complain about a 2-3% per year price increase, but at the same time sell their 90's Bally/Williams machine for a price 3 times as high as they were in 2005. Nobody says no when there's money to be made.

    Also, if Stern had an easy time making huge profits, why aren't there more competitors in the market? Apparently it's not so easy running a profitable pinball company at these prices otherwise more competitors would line up to join the market.

    Then with regard to product quality. It's guesswork really as to whether product quality has really deteriorated. You simply don't have the numbers to compare the relative amount of faults between different generations/manufacturers of machines. Most 1990's machines I've owned have had their share of problems as well. Stern will probably know what the failure rate of their machines within warranty is and maybe they're able to compare it to the Data East / Sega / Stern 2000's timeframe. I however doubt that they'll accept going backwards because fixing any kind of (structural) failure and dealing with angry customers takes up a lot of time.

    Another thing which I notice with regard to quality is that people get angry about even the slightest imperfection nowadays. Take the playfield dimpling discussion for example. Every 1990's machine playfield I've owned looks like it came from planet Mars, people just need to realise that showroom condition and at the same time mashing a steel ball through the machine don't go together very well.

    #168 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    13 years seems like a long time to me.

    well tron and iron man also same price, i only mentioned a few and that's a HUGE increase from then till now which is 10 years ago via last one price as such.
    that's near 2 grand more while they still earn the same on location or less. that's what is boils down to.

    12
    #169 1 year ago

    I've chatted with many other collectors about this over the years and I am beginning to think there is a very vocal minority complaining about Stern quality. I've bought 15 NIB Stern games over the last 10 years and every single one has been cosmetically flawless right out of the box. A couple required some minor adjustments; arguably something that could have been caught in the factory but nothing major. In fact the only thing I've had to do to any of them was get a free factory board replaced by Stern on my GOTLE when it would fail to update.

    If "cutting" costs is what it taked to keep them in business and be able to sell Pro level games for thousands less than any other competition then it's not a deal breaker for me. In fact, I'd argue that a lot of the cost cutting have actually been improvements over all - - lockdown bar latches more tightly and securely and keeps spills out much better, the metal back box head makes the game lighter which I prefer when moving them and I actually think lools better, they've brought back the service rails and even listened to us and put handles on the vertical board on the back of the playfield on recent games, moving the power switch to the head has had kept little kids from turning the machine off mid-game, etc.

    I'm sure everyone has had their own experiences with quality and problems but I dont think the sky is falling and raising prices is unfortunately just part of inflation.

    #170 1 year ago
    Quoted from T-800:

    there is a very vocal minority complaining about Stern quality.

    I think that's because it mostly operators.

    Quoted from Svend:

    but at the same time sell their 90's Bally/Williams machine for a price 3 times as high as they were in 2005.

    Well the hypocrisy is strong with some pinsiders.

    #171 1 year ago

    Unfortunately the Machines are getting worse
    From a quality standpoint. Although they make the best designed new games hands down!!!

    #172 1 year ago
    Quoted from calprog:

    Unfortunately the Machines are getting worse
    From a quality standpoint.

    Something is off with newer Stern pins. Maybe it’s eco friendly paint? But the shooter lane on my 14 year old Potc looks better than most few month old Stern pins.

    1324C443-4692-454E-80A4-10EB6162ADFF (resized).jpeg001163B9-83C4-48E6-8649-F51E521DC04E (resized).jpeg

    #173 1 year ago
    Quoted from T-800:

    I've chatted with many other collectors about this over the years and I am beginning to think there is a very vocal minority complaining about Stern quality. I've bought 15 NIB Stern games over the last 10 years and every single one has been cosmetically flawless right out of the box. A couple required some minor adjustments; arguably something that could have been caught in the factory but nothing major. In fact the only thing I've had to do to any of them was get a free factory board replaced by Stern on my GOTLE when it would fail to update.
    If "cutting" costs is what it taked to keep them in business and be able to sell Pro level games for thousands less than any other competition then it's not a deal breaker for me. In fact, I'd argue that a lot of the cost cutting have actually been improvements over all - - lockdown bar latches more tightly and securely and keeps spills out much better, the metal back box head makes the game lighter which I prefer when moving them and I actually think lools better, they've brought back the service rails and even listened to us and put handles on the vertical board on the back of the playfield on recent games, moving the power switch to the head has had kept little kids from turning the machine off mid-game, etc.
    I'm sure everyone has had their own experiences with quality and problems but I dont think the sky is falling and raising prices is unfortunately just part of inflation.

    “moving the power switch to the head has had kept little kids from turning the machine off mid-game, etc.”

    I had not considered little kids not being able to reach the on-off switch. That would be a benefit for many.

    #174 1 year ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    I’m not sure price is the main issue. JJP makes much better games imo, and I’m ok paying more for them because I always feel like I get a more substantial machine. Compare a wonka/DI standard to a tmnt premium.

    I agree JJP makes a better quality machine than Stern. I hesitate to say this as I know the JJP fanboys will come out and lash me. JJP games just lack the fun factor of Stern. I can't put my finger on it but even though Sterns are made like paper junk, they are just super fun to play. JJP code is just not fun for the neophytes (which is like most people) and takes time to figure out. Every non pinhead that comes over will play Wonka but always gravitate to the Sterns. JJP can just do a lot better on their software to make it more approachable to beginners as it's currently lacking hard.

    #175 1 year ago
    Quoted from fattdirk:

    I agree JJP makes a better quality machine than Stern. I hesitate to say this as I know the JJP fanboys will come out and lash me. JJP games just lack the fun factor of Stern. I can't put my finger on it but even though Sterns are made like paper junk, they are just super fun to play. JJP code is just not fun for the neophytes (which is like most people) and takes time to figure out. Every non pinhead that comes over will play Wonka but always gravitate to the Sterns. JJP can just do a lot better on their software to make it more approachable to beginners as it's currently lacking hard.

    My friend has a WOZ and a few Sterns. I would like to have a WOZ. Nice playing pin.

    #176 1 year ago

    Pinball is a business, just like it always has been. Guess what - a new game cost $1399 in 1978.

    #177 1 year ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    Thats a joke I will take a $7,699 Avengers premeum over a $9,500 Wonka any day

    You do realize there's a $7500 Wonka standard right?

    #178 1 year ago
    Quoted from smileymatthew:

    Pinball is a business, just like it always has been. Guess what - a new game cost $1399 in 1978.

    Expensive solid state technology in the late 70s?! No way!

    #179 1 year ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    You do realize there's a $7500 Wonka standard right?

    I think he was going buy the Stern Pre and the JJP LE. Either way its still Wonka vs Avengers theme more than anything.

    #180 1 year ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    You do realize there's a $7500 Wonka standard right?

    JJP standards are better quality than a Stern premium also.

    #181 1 year ago
    Quoted from fattdirk:

    JJP standards are better quality than a Stern premium also.

    6a00d83452403c69e2017ee408b998970d (resized).jpg
    #182 1 year ago
    Quoted from fattdirk:

    JJP standards are better quality than a Stern premium also.

    I bought a Munsters last year. It plays 100%. I play the hell out of it. All the cab decals are on straight. No pooling on the play field. ETC.

    A friend has several late models Sterns that are great playing pins. They were routed so there is some dimpling on the play fields which don’t bother with play action at all.

    He also has WOZ that is a great player. Other than there is no dimpling on the play field, sitting side by side I see no difference in appearance presentation between the brands.

    What quality issues should I be looking for?

    Speak up. Be specific, please. You make it sound like I need to get educated.

    #183 1 year ago

    Folks, watch the used market. Look at the very games for sale here on pinside, facebook market, or any of the other places games are for sale. Not many at all are going down in price. The games that are going down are the exception. There are multiple system 11 games over 3k, WPC games under 3k are getting very tough to find, early 80's games are jumping up, etc. To think the new market would stay stagnant and never move doesn't make sense.

    #184 1 year ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I bought a Munsters last year. It plays 100%. I play the hell out of it. All the cab decals are on straight. No pooling on the play field. ETC.
    A friend has several late models Sterns that are great playing pins. They were routed so there is some dimpling on the play fields which don’t bother with play action at all.
    He also has WOZ that is a great player. Other than there is no dimpling on the play field, sitting side by side I see no difference in appearance presentation between the brands.
    What quality issues should I be looking for?
    Speak up. Be specific, please. You make it sound like I need to get educated.

    Look at the construction of the cabinets, quality of the rail system, number of mechs/coils/leds, toys, wiring gauge, Video and sound system, etc. you’ll find plenty of differences between the two. How many people are replacing their speakers on stern games? You never hear that happening with JJP games. My hobbit sounds amazing. There is just a lot more to a jjp game. Perhaps most importantly, there is one cpu board on stern spike games that is not repairable by most people, it goes down, it’s like $1000 to replace and a few weeks to get a new one ( and they do fail). JJP is still using through hole technology that can be repaired (and diagnosed) relatively easily.

    To be clear, I’m not saying stern games are bad, they aren’t, are a lot of fun and they put out great themes. But at the same price point, I feel you get more from a JJP.

    #185 1 year ago

    Price Gouging plain and simple !

    #186 1 year ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    Look at the construction of the cabinets, quality of the rail system, number of mechs/coils/leds, toys, wiring gauge, Video and sound system, etc. you’ll find plenty of differences between the two. How many people are replacing their speakers on stern games? You never hear that happening with JJP games. My hobbit sounds amazing. There is just a lot more to a jjp game. Perhaps most importantly, there is one cpu board on stern spike games that is not repairable by most people, it goes down, it’s like $1000 to replace and a few weeks to get a new one ( and they do fail). JJP is still using through hole technology that can be repaired (and diagnosed) relatively easily.
    To be clear, I’m not saying stern games are bad, they aren’t, are a lot of fun and they put out great themes. But at the same price point, I feel you get more from a JJP.

    I guess. I just expect more than thicker wiring gauge and few more coils when spending that much on a pin. Wonka was priced down to compete with Stern and doesn't seem that far off feature-wise to me. Remember fans being quite critical about lack of features when released. Other games more impressive but price points much higher. Not sure I would bank on JJP pins being cheap to repair down the road but whatever.

    #187 1 year ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    Look at the construction of the cabinets, quality of the rail system, number of mechs/coils/leds, toys, wiring gauge, Video and sound system, etc. you’ll find plenty of differences between the two. How many people are replacing their speakers on stern games? You never hear that happening with JJP games. My hobbit sounds amazing. There is just a lot more to a jjp game. Perhaps most importantly, there is one cpu board on stern spike games that is not repairable by most people, it goes down, it’s like $1000 to replace and a few weeks to get a new one ( and they do fail). JJP is still using through hole technology that can be repaired (and diagnosed) relatively easily.
    To be clear, I’m not saying stern games are bad, they aren’t, are a lot of fun and they put out great themes. But at the same price point, I feel you get more from a JJP.

    Thank you. This I can understand.

    #188 1 year ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    How many people are replacing their speakers on stern games? You never hear that happening with JJP games

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wozecle-speakers-sound-tinny-buzzing

    your-so-funny_o_1035046 (resized).jpg
    #189 1 year ago

    Six years ago? Cmon, gotta do better than that. Maybe never wasn’t the right term, should have said rarely.

    #190 1 year ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    I guess. I just expect more than thicker wiring gauge and few more coils when spending that much on a pin. Wonka was priced down to compete with Stern and doesn't seem that far off feature-wise to me. Remember fans being quite critical about lack of features when released. Other games more impressive but price points much higher. Not sure I would bank on JJP pins being cheap to repair down the road but whatever.

    Wonka actually has a lot, though. 4 flippers, playfield lcd sceeen that has a lot of info, spinning gobstopper, subway, Lighted interactive wonka tower, outlane kickback, magnets...

    #191 1 year ago

    The difference with JJP pins is that the "get more for your $$$" does not translate into wanting to buy one.

    You don't "get more" when it comes to code and fun factor. Those are two very BIG tangible aspects of actually playing pinball. That is why Stern is crushing it right now.

    I paid $6500 for my WOZECLE, I just paid $9,000 for an Avengers LE. My Woz has a direct print Cab and toys galore. I'll play it once a month now because of the witch, crystal ball and Monkey mods by Steve G.

    I was a JJP kool aid drinker from day one. Long before most of you guys were around here. It stopped at the Hobbit art redo that one particular expo that TBL came out.

    And btw, the pf's dimple and chip as bad or worse and the toys, mechs, etc need adjusting/fixing as much. I know a route operator that swears by the durability of Stern pins over JJP, to the tune of 10's of thousands of more plays.

    Operators also can't get a return on investment with a JJP pin versus a Stern pro.

    Bottom line, add the THEME, CODE and FUN FACTOR into the mix and I'd happily buy another JJP game. So there is some marketing research for you Jack from a guy that will buy pinball machines and bought an early Woz.

    #192 1 year ago

    Here's another difference, JJP creates absolutely ZERO FOMO.

    The $12,500 CE is a non starter and people know they will re run the LE's and standards forever.

    And there is virtually zero difference other than the artwork for all editions.

    Take a page out of the Stern and Spooky playbook and learn FOMO.

    #193 1 year ago

    I enjoy games from most of the companies making pins and don’t comprehend the fan boy philosophy. That being said, it’s Stern’s world because JJP, CGC, Spooky, AP, and “Deeproot” don’t produce many titles or units. Stern cranks em out while others leave fans frustrated. The price increases are part of life but would be great if a real competitor was out there to challenge. Until then why should or would Stern Pinball change?

    #194 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    The “BOM” isn’t what some people think it is.
    Those people have a problem doing math. That’s why multipliers don’t make sense to them. Lol
    It’s a LOT higher and includes MUCH more fixed overhead than it takes to make a pin just in variable costs alone
    COGS is what some refer to as the BOM
    Net profit margin is after ALL the other costs associated with running a company. Property, plant, equipment, insurance etc etc
    You see how hard it is to make one pinball machine. Look at the millions Deeproot has squandered
    You get to make a return on capital invested for the risk you take. Sorry, that’s how it goes. And, we don’t get to set pricing, they do. As long as demand is there it is what it is.
    Stern has “cracked the code” has the demand, talent and assets to deliver great games that people want.
    They win. For now

    yah this... I can tell that most people with pricing gripes have never run a business and have no idea what costs are involved.

    Same people that think the distribs are making money hand over fist... its a tight margin volume type biz.

    #195 1 year ago

    I used to be aggrieved by these price increases too until I realized that I'm never going the buy a NIB game. Then I realized that the only equation that really matters to me is how much I paid for it + how much I put into it in mods, maintenance, and repair + how much enjoyment I got out of it - how much I sold it for. As long as the final answer is to my satisfaction, I think I did all right.

    #196 1 year ago
    Quoted from pingod:

    Lumber prices here jumped over 200% in the last couple of months. It's nuts.
    I build houses for a living, might not be for much longer at these prices.

    yup a $7 2x4 in april and may now costs $11.57

    #197 1 year ago
    Quoted from Greenandwhite:

    I enjoy games from most of the companies making pins and don’t comprehend the fan boy philosophy. That being said, it’s Stern’s world because JJP, CGC, Spooky, AP, and “Deeproot” don’t produce many titles or units. Stern cranks em out while others leave fans frustrated. The price increases are part of life but would be great if a real competitor was out there to challenge. Until then why should or would Stern Pinball change?

    the chicago gaming pricing on classic monster bash remake sure was a good start. hopefully that stays around for awhile.

    #198 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    I know a route operator that swears by the durability of Stern pins over JJP, to the tune of 10's of thousands of more plays.

    Yeah and not trying to turn this into any kind of JJP hate thread but the one op I know told me he won't buy another JJP after the all the issues he had with DI on route. Point being stop with the "build quality" crap. Plenty of broken down B/W games when I was yute in the arcades. That's part of the hobby. We aren't collecting stamps or sports memorabilia.

    #199 1 year ago

    These are the same people complaining about the price of the new elvira topper. They most likely weren't going to buy one anyways, but the new normal is to complain about everything. I've run my farm for 39 years, i know all about rising costs, machinery, repairs, labor, then struggle while those prices keep going up, but our product price goes down, same thing has happened in the pinball industry. I hope all manufacturers make a good go of it while they can.

    #200 1 year ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    Six years ago? Cmon, gotta do better than that. Maybe never wasn’t the right term, should have said rarely.

    You are kidding right Pinheads bring up Sten shit years after it has happened

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