outrage

This....

With games selling for premiums above MSRP (including at distributors) Stern has to recognize that they are leaving money in the table. The surprise is that LEs didn’t go up even more.

yep, I have just as much fun playing my Big Game as any new machine.

Can’t agree more. I feel the same way about my Seawitch. You can get 2 to 3 classic Sterns for the price of a new Stern premium. It will be interesting to see how Stern’s price increase impacts, if any, the secondary market for older pins.

All games, except ems, will go up about $100 in value just like every year.

So it won’t be very interesting. We’ve been seeing this for 10 years now.

It's amazing all the excuses people will make for Stern. While some commodities go up in price there are also others that come down. Everyone seems to be OK when Stern raises prices due to commodities increasing however I doubt they reduce prices when commodities drop in price such as steel. I don't blame Stern for constantly raising prices because they are in the business to make money and when Avengers LE's sell out within a few hours then they clearly left money on the table. However call a spade a spade and just say Stern is increasing prices to get the most money from their product and quit blaming it on the economy, commodities, taxes, inflation, licensing, or whatever other bull shit excuses you want to make to justify their increases. I guarantee if people stopped buying their machines prices would magically come down even if the fucking price of lumber was still increasing because they are selling these machines well above their BOM.

Inflation is not a crime. It happens in an economy. The forces affecting it are vast.
Fortunately, we can all vote with our wallet or buy used.

My routed MM was $8500 in 2011. It happened. I loved it. I played it. I sold it eight years later for a 20% loss.
Not bad for eight years of fun. Not bad at all.

It’s amazing all the people who engage in this same ritual every year when stern raised prices $100, which is as inevitable as Tax Day. A dumb outrage thread which immediately becomes a rolling stern grievance thread going back 33 years of alleged pinball crimes.

Don’t you people ever get sick of this useless endeavor?

Find a new hobby. Does the peace corps still exist?

"Your promotion to 4 star general of the 7th division of the Stern Army has been approved. Please send $250 for a limited edition award certificate within 30 days."

Congrats!

/

It’s amazing all the people who engage in this same ritual every year when stern raised prices $100, which is as inevitable as Tax Day. A dumb outrage thread which immediately becomes a rolling stern grievance thread going back 33 years of alleged pinball crimes.
Don’t you people ever get sick of this useless endeavor?
Find a new hobby. Does the peace corps still exist?</

Clearly, Stern can handle it.

I think you are over simplifying your analysis. The past doesn’t always predict the future. At some point Stern will hit the ceiling with its NIB prices whether it’s due to inflation, increases in cost of materials or just trying to maximize profit. At that point, people will start looking elsewhere for their pinball fix. Maybe it will be classic Sterns, maybe it will be the Bally Williams pins. I think it will be interesting. Everything about this hobby is interesting. In the end, I guess every pin doesn’t increase exactly $100 across the board every year. Anyone that follows this hobby knows that’s not correct.

The past predicts that stern will raise prices every year just like everybody else on everything and the past also predicts the same dozen idiots plus a few “look at me!” Newbies will engage in the “shame on stern!” Circle jerk which inevitably becomes another ghosting, dimpling, and topper thread.

The present proves this is correct.

Well did Seawitch go up $100 from last year? Yes or no?

What you and others are saying is to buy older games yet those are up also, so what you gonna do? Folks like those BW games like they like NIB games and folks I know have a hard time stomaching paying up for those also. They can choose to pay up or pass. Plain and simple. The folks who don’t want to pay up for older games just don’t whine about it on Pinside as much. Thank goodness! Less whining!

Yes, If they can Stern will add little $100 prices increases like Seawitch owners will add $100 or more when they sell. Still paying $100 more either way. What folks like, EMs, BW’s, new sterns Etc is pure choice and if lot of folks switch from sterns to older games to escape the $100 NIB increase or low quality, choice, whatever then those Older games are going to will rise up also. So folks will escape one price increase to go to the next one. Yay.

The inflation Folks could use their inflation chart to sell their TSPP or TOM or Seawitch also. They can take the price they paid years ago plus inflation and ask that. That is an idea Floated around here also. That’s fair.

Pinball will go down when less people stop playing it. Maybe next year. Maybe folks plan is to cry and bitch so much about everything pinball is to make folks quit so they can by their games cheap or stern will lower prices due to less buyers? Sorry won’t happen. Those folks will just quit Pinside and not Pinball.

Don’t forget code!!

Uh... Welcome to 2009?

You mean the bubble is about to burst!? You do realize this thread has repeated year after year for a long time? Even in 2020 Stern is having trouble meeting demand. Aiq LE's are probably already sold out. Stern is killing it.

The hobby would die slowly if people did this. Used prices would go through the roof. Supply and demand will set the price.

Oh those good old days when a LE was just $6500 or so

now its $10K and up

but when you get older you have more money to spend and they see this clearly
so expect this to continue like it already has.

I... just... can't

I don't think this violates my NDA but technically Stern went out of business two $100 increases ago over the protests to that price increase being the last straw.

Google "Stern boycot of 2018" to learn more.

They’ve had to raise prices to compensate for all the extra work that goes into making sure the playfields are super top tier quality...

...hahahahahahahahaha!!

This thread reminds me of the old "I'll quit smoking when the price of a pack hits $X.00" thing. I'm not sure why one would expect pinball not be subject to inflation or profit, and as far as quality, my kitchen set cost as much as a new pin, and I'll be lucky to get 8 years out of it, with next to zero resale value. Same applies to pretty much every big ticket item from washers, to hvac, to cars, etc. In fact, I can't think of a single piece that holds its value better than a new (or used) pinball machine. Not that I'm saying cutting corners doesn't suck, but we live in a consumer based reality, and everything has been going this way as long as I've been here. And then there's the whole it's a $10k toy that no one actually "needs". What difference does $100 make year over year, barely covers dinner out these days...

Those of us that have been around the block in this hobby a time or two know that the hill that the OP is dying on here is comprised of the bodies of newcomers that looked just like him, making their grand stands against the same injustices of price increases long since surpassed. You should have been here for the real jump in price when Huckster Jack showed Gary that he could go up $1000 at a time, and not just $100.

The “BOM” isn’t what some people think it is.

Those people have a problem doing math. That’s why multipliers don’t make sense to them. Lol

It’s a LOT higher and includes MUCH more fixed overhead than it takes to make a pin just in variable costs alone

COGS is what some refer to as the BOM

Net profit margin is after ALL the other costs associated with running a company. Property, plant, equipment, insurance etc etc

You see how hard it is to make one pinball machine. Look at the millions Deeproot has squandered

You get to make a return on capital invested for the risk you take. Sorry, that’s how it goes. And, we don’t get to set pricing, they do. As long as demand is there it is what it is.

Stern has “cracked the code” has the demand, talent and assets to deliver great games that people want.

They win. For now

I just don’t think it’s that exact of a science. Maybe it went up $200. Maybe $300. Prices are all over the place on pins. That’s what makes it interesting. I find it a bit humorous that “the Pinside experts” declare that there is a straight line rule of $100 increases across the board for all pins each and every year.

By the way, I’m not complaining about the price increases. However, the thing people like you and Crazy Levi are missing is that everyone’s compensation isn’t also increasing at the same rate. Other consumer products prices are also increasing. Everyone is competing for the same dollar. Some are essential, some are not. Of course, there are always people that will be able to afford pins no matter what, but at some point the price will be so high that it just won’t be worth it anymore regardless of whether the price is justified or not.

There’s always a bubble with everything at some point.

Stern if you are going to continue to put game prices up, CAN YOU PLEASE SPEND THE EXTRA $0.14 CENTS to manufacture your flipper coil stop parts better!

The same Bally / Williams parts NEVER FAIL, but for some reason yours always do (sometimes after a few hundred plays).

Sadly yes, in Europe taxes are very high, a Limited Edition Pinball with taxes it's around 12.000USD

I’m not understanding why EU people constantly need to complain about paying tax on goods. It’s like they seem to be only paying tax on NIB pinball machines.

I pay ungodly amount of taxes every month on my income, and I pay tens of thousands of dollars each year for health insurance. Yet I don’t say this pin costs xyz and I need to pay for my own health insurance.

Quantity > Quality seems to be the standard for meaning on this forum.

I'd rather have 2 "legitimate" premium style games from Stern a year, than 4 or 5 that I have to wonder what issues might occur via QC, materials, scalebacks regarding features, etc.

But....the way Stern manufacturers, literally and figuratively, with more profit in mind than quality, I really don't have to worry about wanting to buy 1 or 2.

I still have yet to play a Stern produced in the past 5 years, that feels akin to a game built 30 years ago. With API and JJP, I don't have that issue whatsoever. I hope Deeproot follows this trend, then again....I kinda don't need MORE temptation!

Edit: Looking at that other thread, seems Avengers Pro was listed at 5700 years back, which was a price hike, but then went back down afterwards. GOTG spiked up then down also. Price hike in those cases definitely must have to do with licensing agreements too.

you mean they charge extra to cover the cost of doing replacement playfields for everyone instead of doing the playfields properly the first time

Quantity makes a huge difference when competition can only deliver short tease videos on quality. The whole reason every dumps on Stern is because they continue to deliver multiple times a year. Competition gives you little to nothing to talk about for months and years. Just saying. Stern may have their issues but they are doing far better than any competition. Solid themes, great talent, fun games, and pro is still cheapest full featured pin in the business.

I'm glad the IFPA was able to provide a bailout to keep Stern in business, thanks to all of the $1 fees collected

R any of u actual business men or property owners? taxes go up and costs increase every year. Its a nice thought to think stern would eat up those increased costs and yeah it sucks that prices go up buts that's life.

No question and I agree with you entirely! AP is getting closer on price. Not as close on themes, execution, and such though.

Very much agree. Sad, empty wallet agrees too.

What's really funny is that people think prices will only go up once next year.

I hear what you are saying but some form of pinball has been around for 100 years.

Bubbles usually happen on speculation or over leverage. Pinball really isn’t a bubble. I don’t know any one quitting their day jobs making big money on Pinball like folks were able to do day trading, Flipping houses, Bennie Babies, selling Baseball Cards, tulips etc.. $100 is a slow pump on the bubble. So likely a slow hiss will come out when the time comes rather than a pop! In the mean time I like them all, new games, $3000 T2’s, $1200 Firepower’s, and $900 Grand Prix’s etc even though they are all more than they were last year. Really something fun for everyone at any level income - that’s pinball to me. Everyone’s welcome here. Folks shouldn’t make it look like it’s not. So some folks should stop complaining about $100 here or there and have fun instead. It’s up to them though.

Flip away, make friends and have fun.

I’m trying to figure out if everybody here knows why they get a raise every year.

Hint: it’s probably not because you are doing a good job.

This guy thinks we all get raises every year.

Well don’t you think you should? Surely you are performing well enough that you deserve a measly cost of living increase annually.

Or else your pay is actually going down every year.

I usually wake up with a raise

I work for an international company and feel fortunate they observe our own inflation in the USA I can’t imagine everyone does that. They try to exceed our inflation rate if our performance is exceptional. Meanwhile I know some people who deserve much more than that at other companies while they are observing a wage freeze or worse, pay cuts. But, some of that is to allow others to still work which is somewhat admirable in a way.

It really blows and I’ll speak with my wallet. My pinball buying days are over right now during these fucked up times. Buying a new pinball machine is basically the last thing on my list. I’m glad Stern and these other manufacturers are pumping games out but I can’t even try em out because all the barcades are closed and I’ll be damned if I’m gonna spend that kind of cash on something I can’t even play first.

I work in Australia and have had only 2 payrises in the last 10 years. The price of our product has gone up and then down. We are in a extremely competitive market. Companies that continually raise their prices lose their customers to the companies that do not. The only reason Stern can continually raise their prices is because they have no competition. Until this changes, we will continue to see price rises from them on all their products.

i stopped buying nib after ac/dc luci vault. i'll never buy another at these prices, just wait for the "latest and greatest" guys to give me their hand me downs.

The only reason Stern can continually raise their prices is because their product sells out within hours/days at that price point. Until this FOMO consumer mindset changes, we will continue to see price rises from them on all their products.

(edited)

Certain LE’s sell out quickly but they would obviously sell more pros and premiums at lower prices.

When your factory is full you can either raise prices or invest to expand. Increasing capacity is usually better if you can consistently fill it up over time, especially in a low capital cost business like pinball. But Stern has apparently decided that the longer term outlook isn’t strong / clear enough right now to make another major investment.

It wouldn’t surprise me if they expanded and/or actually lowered prices to trounce the competition if any actually ever emerges. Economies of scale is their biggest advantage and they’d be stupid not to use it to derail a serious competitor.

Wait???? What happened to Chaz??? After losing Patrick, we cannot lose Chaz. These guys were the only two that cared about us buyers.

I’m not sure price is the main issue. JJP makes much better games imo, and I’m ok paying more for them because I always feel like I get a more substantial machine. Compare a wonka/DI standard to a tmnt premium.