This is my first post --- After really comparing Stern games to Williams at Pinball Hall of Fame in Vegas, Stern games just always seem inferior, especially the newer games. Sure the game code is more complex, but the flow is never quite there. Especially with games like POTC, LOTR and TWD, it always seems like you can tell when you are playing a Stern because they play slower, and are usually a bit boring. Just my opinion of course, but I am not sure how people really like most Stern games...

Yeah, games like Tron, AC/DC, Star Trek, and Metallica are super slow......

This video on Corvette spells it out pretty well

My guess is the games at pinball hall of fame are just terribly maintained. Star Trek, Metallica, Tron, game of thrones, acdc, etc are all faster than anything Williams has. Set up right lotr is pretty fast. Potc is a completely unique game with no flow but it's attraction is its uniqueness.

There are a few exceptions like MET and Tron, though neither of those compare to the best Williams has produced. Compare Star Treks and IJ versions Stern vs Williams, Stern doesn't come close. Not to hate but there is too much unwarranted love around here for Stern.

That's true.

The Stern is 50x faster.

Stern IJ vs Williams IJ is not exactly a fair comparison. Stern IJ is just not a good game and sold poorly. B/W had its fair share of duds too.

Many more exceptions, IM, GOT's, Transformers, LOTR's, SM, AC/DC, TWD. Stern is a different style of pinball and thats a good thing, I wouldn't want the new games to simply mirror the best of the 90's DMD's. I love the B/W's stuff too but really enjoy the speed of the modern Sterns, with better sound and lighting effects they are highly immersive, I need all of it from Stargazer to Shadow to GOT and so on. JMO

In what specific ways are you suggesting the games vid mentioned are inferior? In my humble opinion, they each have their good and bad quirks.

That is one bad example and one good example, in my opinion. I prefer to play the Stern Star Trek and I could care less about Star Trek in it's own right. Both games are great.

However, pointing out one of Stern's worst games in my opinion does nothing for this comparison. You might as well compare Stern IJ to Bally/Williams Harley-Davidson, Gilligan's Island, or Popeye if you want to be fair about "the worst"

Ever played Game of Thrones Pro? ST Pro? ACDC?

You can say a lot of things against recent Stern pins but saying they play slower... no.

No doubt...Stern games are not only faster but usually harder.

I don't know...I guess set up all the same @ 6.5 degrees Sterns are typically faster. People here set them all with all sorts of slopes which kind of negates a games "speed."

I like both and own both. I believe Williams has the better build quality. They feel like tanks. That being said the Sterns have more rule depth and more objectives to accomplish. That reason make them good in a home environment. There is nothing wrong with either. Im glad they are still being made.

In what way?

The same company that built all the Bally/Williams/Classic Stern/Chicago Coin cabinets still makes them to the same spec for Stern today.

The specs remain the same; 3/4" thick plywood cab with loc-joints, 1/2" thick plywood playfield.

Maybe the only difference is the metal reinforcements on the corners are better on modern Sterns.

The noticeable difference in feel for me is the flippers. And I think I saw somewhere the SPIKE system uses parallel wound coils now, so maybe they won't feel that different anymore.

I add two cinder blocks to the bottom of my new Stern cabs before a single game is played. Boom. Built like tanks.

*Buy this mod for only $200. I got the patent from Rick*

Well stated.

Also with STTNG specifically it is a wide body so even though the shots have flow it might not seem as fast paced do to return time to flippers. The modes in game are super fun and it has a nice shot map. Very well themed game. Right up there with IJ and TAF IMO.

I have been warned against classic sterns by the old timer operators for years. But modern stern and B/W both amazing games just a little different feel in gameplay.

B/W fun and game experience just last longer in my gameroom. LOTR is the only Stern that has made it past 6 months. IM, SM, TRON, and Sopranos were fun for a while but they all hit the wall and had to go. TZ-5 years, IJ- 4 years, WH20 - 4 years AFM- 2.5 years, and BSD -1 year all just keep bringing me back for more. Newer Sterns like TWD, GOT and MET are fun and i have thought about getting TWD but have to replace something due to space issues and can't seem to do it. As far as speed a super fast game is no good if the shots are not fun and the theme / call outs are just ok. B/W call outs and themes are in general just better.

Sterns new ST is a hit and fast flowing pin, also like the wide body by Williams as well.

I've owned this twice, and the game simply just comes down to a single shot, the middle. Over and over and over and over ...

That and trying to stack 5x with multi ball.

Great game, don't get me wrong. Gorgeous, flows well, music is great, humour, etc.

I just don't see how it is in the top 20, and TWD Pro is ranked 97th. But opinions are like ... well, you know what I mean.

Smoke, WH2O is way more than one shot up the middle. Wet Willy's requires you to make 7 shots to advance. The left/right right loops need to be hit when lit. The left ramp needs to be hit instead of up the middle to set up your multiball 5x. Also big foot cave white target shots and red kick back targets . Also gold rush and extra ball tough shots and river targets. Pop bumper shot to move whirlpool lights. Not to mention the 2 up top shots . All these shots and more are required to get to Vacation Jackpot. TWD should be in the top 20 i agree but WH2O should be there too.

Oh, I know. Been there many times. It all came down to advancing the RIVER letters, every time. Middle shot, upper play field, down to the inlane to spot a light ... repeat ad nauseam.

If the software allowed completed RIVER levels to carry over to the next ball, it would have avoided a lot of the tedious nature of the game.

That would be too easy.

You have to pass the ball between the flippers up the inlanes to quickly make the river.

Lol I'm sure we would all LOVE to play the next Bally/Williams new release! Let us know when you think that will be.

It was the only game I owned that my girlfriend would not play with me. "I hate standing and watching you play for 45 minutes".

She much prefers watching me get kicked in the nuts by TWD.

Next month.. GB Ex Bally/Williams designer and Ex Bally/Williams programmer

You need to wake up and smell the roses my friend!

WMS abandoned pinball because they saw bigger money in gambling. They changed from being a GREAT company to a predatory company IMO.

Stern have stuck to pinball and most of their later machines are better than brilliant, again - IMO.

For you to even suggest late model Stern machines "play slowly" is simply absurd and proves you are either a "plant" or just a scummy troll - there is no doubt.

There seems to be "too much unwarranted HATE for Stern around here" - but only by a few such as yourself.

Are you sure you don't work for JJP????

I really like what Stern brings to the table (some Art packages aside).
I also really like what B/W put out in the past. (I also like my DE - curveball)!
Funny thing is, whenever I throw a staff party, the only games that get repeated plays are my METLE and ACDC. My boys (8,6), always gravitate to the Stern pins as well?! Maybe they like the lights? Either way, I have sold many games but they won't let me lose the Sterns)!

Either way, I think it's comparing apples to apples. I love them both as they are both pinballs

IT DOES by getting the hold bonus.

Guess I like both.

After owning 18 games I've narrowed down to four I really like (not that it won't change in the future) 2 Williams and 2 Sterns.

I like unique pins. Ones that aren't based upon a movie or band. Ones that had a creative theme and design.

Some of those pins are the system 11 pins. Newer sterns are blah to me. Not into modes. Just into beating my old high score.

Well put Blackbeard