Ok, here is my take:
The online leaderboard parts... so pushing data to the web is not an issue, no security hole there, but on the downlink side, opening up to receive new code is a massive risk, one that will need strong security. Are Stern the ones we want gatekeeping the bad out of our machines? Automatic updates need confirmation and security certificate handshaking to work well, is Stern the company that could pull this off? You only have to hire one or two guys who are pretty smart and knowledgeable on this kind of security to implement it correctly. I talked to Tanio Klyce one on one about software and the challenges facing designers and I found him to be quite the resource and impressive from the standpoint of one coder talking to another coder. I write code for a major bank, and I am well versed in the security that that involves. I think Tanio and his team at Stern have the ability to pull this off. As for what you can do with a push and pull interface, the sky is the limit. What will make people buy more pins? For an op it is how does it keep itself clean, working, and accepting money? For a player it is, how do I match up to other players? Be that specific player statistics, high scores, or the like. Some of the things a player may want feedback on... how many times did I lite a shot and not hit it, or a stat on timing, like showing a chart of shots, and your percentage of taking and making each shot. The math behind those types of statistics would take time to develope and display and the change management of player expectation and benefits of data presented realized. If you knew you were constantly shanking a specific shot, either too soon or too late, knowing which way you need to adjust your timing would be a benefit. It could also tell you what shots you suck at and need practice. Could you see a “practice” Menu item appear with a flipper button press while you have credits on the machine and the machine goes into shot practice mode. Even charge extra to activate the mode, like $5 per 5 minutes of practice time or You select a shot you want to practice and you have a pricing menu come up with how much to practice this shot. Would an operator care you are teaching the player how to beat the machine? Not if he’s making a buck a minute to let you try.
And the machine software would then set up practice shots for you and deliver the ball to the flipper, you shoot your shots, it tells you you are fast or slow. You finish your session and get a report that can be pushed to an email address the player enters during profile setup when they start the practice session. This guys, this. This is what is waiting, and this can make pinball earnings great again. What player would not drop a fiver to get a practice session hosted by the designer, or hosted by major Wizards (Not going to drop any names here because you all know who you are). So what if a mode like Lyman’s Lament could be purchased, and what if it could help you learn the rules. What shots to take and why, and when? Scoring hints and “inside” info could be sold based on credits (Press both flippers for scoring advice- cost X credits) why make a player have only one option to pay for play? As operators go, anything that puts more money into the machine is a win. If the players get better, free game score reflexing takes care of that. For a player, anthing that increases my score and makes it easier to win a free game is, well a win. Win-win... just saying...

I do not want my pinball machines or my appliances connected to the internet.
Or my garage door opener, or my thermostat, or my doorbell, or my watch.
And get off my lawn, you damn kids!

Could not agree more....

I just took off one of my shoes... now I'm taking off one of my socks. My glass is off, and my sock is stuffed in the outhole. So... I'll win. Not by anything crazy, just enough to best you.

I would like Stern to collect my personal information and usage data so they can market things to me and/or sell my information to other companies without my knowledge. Then, in a few years, I would like my personal information to be compromised in a security breach and receive one of those nice emails about how my information was stolen so that I could actually do nothing about it anyway but wonder who got it, who wanted it and why, and how it may someday bite me in the ass.

Well, they’re clearly going to have to produce pressure switches for inside your shoes to hook up to the internet to check that you keep your shoes on. But then I guess people will just start putting shoes on fake feet with the switches in them to fool the system. What a never ending spiral of misadventure!

I have seen many companies in the past take this in the wrong direction. #1 Manufactures will now know your location. Perhaps to solicit their products directly. #2 Monthly service fees or revenue splits audited via online all for "Exclusive content"
#3 ADVERTISING!!! most companies sell advertising to be displayed on your device and you get nothing in return. They make great residuals but we get nothing. Just like Touch Tunes and AMI internet Jukebox.

Not saying stern will do any of this. Just saying ALL of this has been done before in the commercial coin op world. And it SUCKS!!!

Multi player games and DLC have had a huge and forever impact on the gaming industry. I can’t see competitions on different pinball games from different locations but I also didn’t see a bunch of tech changes that came coming.

Imagine custom songs, custom images, DLC (a la BOP 2.0), a ..... Pinball Browser via Stern’s website. Imagine what we can’t imagine. I think it’s pretty cool.

The technology is advancing quickly, pinball can and will adapt. I look forward to online advancements. Imagine having a tutorial for newer people pop up on the lcd and give a quick pinball playing lesson including rules and features of a game, or a known issue with a node board and an automatic software update to fix the issue before it becomes a problem. Score boards are just the icing on the cake. Lots of possibilities, it may also help grow pinball.

Give a man a console.jpg

Head to head online mode. Similar to Keith vs. Zach at sterns thrilla at sternilla, except online.

Program the game to have a dozen or so objectives, then select a best of 3,5,7 match. Game randomizes the objectives and tells players when to start and penalizes players with time for early plunges.

And to take it one step further, have 3-player and 4-player competitions; first to 3, 5, 7 wins takes it.

1. I'd like usage data to be uploaded back to Stern so they can see how many hours or cycles various components last. Right now, they must rely on second hand data like distributor feedback and replacement parts ordered to tell them what is failing.
2. I'd like to filter online leaderboards by factors like location and age so that I can say I'm crushing the over-70 crowd in Iceland (for example).
3. I don't want to see any advertisements - not for tasty beverages or even a new Stern release.
4. Cell phone integration. I have a mic, camera, accelerometer, memory, and connectivity in my pocket. Put that tech to work instead of building those items into the cabinet.

Could be cool. We will see what they do with it.

I highly doubt anyone would try and hack a pinball machine. No money in it. No glory in it. Very difficult. Plus you could make the wifi update dependent on a board switch, so rogue code can't be installed when you're not around.

People could be going after 1000 other more popular things. In fact, according to Amazon, there are 17,000+ more popular electronics than pinball machines.

If it was really easy to hack pinball machines then all the code issues with all these games from the past 25 would be non-existent.

You don't understand hackers lol

Exactly. The operator has to be present for the update to be safe, so why not have them carry it on USB and plug it in?

Welcome to 2018 Stern...

I think I do. They've been hacking my video games for 20 years. But 99.99% of hacking stuff is like video game and credit card/personal information related. They're not hacking personal electronics really from afar outside of cell phones (which really isn't embedded stuff either).

I got a bad feeling about this...
F4B7C555-A293-4118-ABED-2CC6AB9867F9.gif

Hackers will LOVE breaking a rich guys $8k toy for the Lulz, so yeah Stern this is a BAD idea unless you are committed, and I seriously doubt you are, so best to leave things be.

Plus how dumb is the JJP using your phone to flip technology, that was just a waste of time/effort/money, as a pinball “tech” example...

hack time.gif.

So many good things about tech but always the dark side must rear it's head. I don't know what else to say about it.

So why are hackers not breaking into things like TV's all the time then? Some of those are $5k to $10k, and they're mass market.

Some of the fears are way overblown with regards to consumer electronics. All home theater receivers are on the internet now, nobody is taking control of those. Things based on a standard OS like cell phones and computers, yeah, those things might be a lot more vulnerable.

I kinda just enjoying playing pins in my basement with some friends over.

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/android-ransomware-infects-lg-smart-tv/
Recall the baby monitor issues?

The point is IoT devices require ongoing attention, which is an expense not currently needed. Of course it's manageable, but there are real, KNOWN drawbacks. All the benefits are not yet known since no one can predict every great idea or how that might be used or misused.

Hacking an IoT device no longer requires targeting an individual device. Instead, you scan for everything that responds to (newly discovered vulnerability). Then you pick which of those might suit your goal and go from there. The days of hoping your valuable IoT thing will go unnoticed are gone. If it's online, it's known.

If a automatic online code update could be installed it would make updates easy ! However,anything else would be a hassle for older folks who aren't tech.savy!!!

If there is a big bug in the new auto uploaded software they didnt see and your node board burns out.
Hell no i would wait and look on pinside first to hear any bugs.

It sounds like they installed an infected android app. A little bit different than someone hacking your TV.

This is why PinRemote uses AES secured BTLE technology. Not hackable. One thing I'm working on is allowing the BT controlling device to be the internet gateway. This additional layer provides the security I think you need.

Hard problem to solve though.

Ensure the boards only run a signed OS.
Ensure the boards will only install signed updates.
Distribute updates stored on Amazon S3 / Azure. Scaling / HA solved.
Do not accept incoming connections / have no ports open. Outgoing connections only.
The tech needed to implement this well may be somewhat intricate, but there are plenty of people out there with the skillset(s) to solve this for Stern.

If they did go this route, that may put a damper on sounds mods like Clelands which would be unfortunate.

From the perspective as a player, it doesn't seem that interesting because:
a) how many people could I possible be playing with at the same time head-to-head
b) it would be way too easy to cheat the system without a bunch of additional hardware on the game for little benefit other than this niche use most players won't care about.

That said, it could be neat if they did provide regular updates to add/change callouts, animations, etc. Like if they did a pinball based on a TV show, have the game add a callout from the latest episode. If they did a game like NBA Fastbreak, have it regularly update with player names and rotate the trivia in the game. But I highly doubt most players would notice or that it would be worthwhile ($) to apply the "video games as a service" mindset to a pinball machine.

From the perspective of an operator (I'm not one, just thinking like one), it would be nice if the game could send info on the status of the machine. Like if the game thinks something is broken, or it's been X amount of games since it's been serviced, or if there is enough money in the machine to make collecting worthwhile. Things like that would be nice to have, but not necessary and really likely only appeals to guys with large routes. It seems like it should be an optional addon for the operators who want it.

If Stern wants to catch up with the modern world, they should offer an addon that can communicate with a users phone. Let the user pay by phone, track their stats, help operators that want to do a selfie league, etc..

Damn, I didn't even think of this, but you're right, extra security often comes with a clampdown on mods.

Being able to see audits remotely and basically see everything in the diagnostic menus would be a huge step forward for operators. Being able to download audit data via bluetooth to your phone would be a huge bonus also, even if you could not make adjustments remotely.

they havent even updated the menus from looking like a DMD and now all of a sudden people think we are getting online audit and diagnostics?

Definitely. This is a non-trivial feature to implement well, so there has to be a specific financial upside.

If they market the functionality to operators (quality of life or accounting/payment management kind of stuff) expect a "Remote Diagnostics" add-on module for $200 or whatever. I'd guess it'll be backwards compatible with all the Spike 2.0 games, too.

Why hack into something online that you don't care about? Here's how CCTV cameras were used to take down large portions of the Internet. And they weren't hacked because someone wanted to see what the camera was recording. If it can create Internet traffic, hackers want it. And if it can connect to the Internet, it can create traffic.

https://www.csoonline.com/article/3258748/security/the-mirai-botnet-explained-how-teen-scammers-and-cctv-cameras-almost-brought-down-the-internet.html

Why do they need to. They are a utility, and I don't really give a rip what they look like as long as they are easy to use.

have you seen a jjp menu ? just saying //shrug

Give an IP address and internet access to a pinball machine and watch it get DDoSed during your next tourney

Cause it's horrible looking. They don't "need to," but have some fucking pride.

AS for the whole thing I'm not interested much in the online angle but I always assumed it was coming

Why would the pinball machine have a public IP Address? Do you worry about your xbox or playstation getting DDoSed?

Stern going online doesn't have to be a bad thing, it could be really cool. Give it a chance, if it is not great don't plug your machine into a network cable. I am sure it will be optional.

dupe.

Can you be any more of a grouch?

Because if it's online there will be a public IP address...otherwise what's the point? So a bartender can hop on a local network instead of walk over to the machine?

And yes, people DDOS people playing online games all the time.

If it's going online it will have an ip address. Kinda how it works

No because I dont play online games but if you are asking that question then you probably are new to this. Here are some examples but feel free to google for more:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_PlayStation_Network_outage

https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/8btggm/was_ddos_attacked_last_night_by_another_gamer/

You misread what I said. I do think it will be cool. But I also work in Dev Ops and see this daily.

just like a week ago people hacked the message service on playstation to "brick" peoples PS4s lol

Oh yeah forgot about that one lol

If you work in Dev Ops I am sure you understand the difference between a public and private IP address. No reason a pinball machine needs a public IP address. In the PSN example, the DDoS happening there is on the public facing playstation network servers, not the playstations themselves that are typically tucked away on relatively safe private networks as a pinball machine would be.

I am not new to this. I have been in IT for over 20 years.

Could it be implemented poorly, sure it could. Does it have to be, no.

I would like to see them try as it could be cool.

The pinball machine can have a private IP address and operate just fine and still talk to Stern's servers / CDN. There is no need for a public IP address.

People might DDoS other peoples Internet connections, but they typically are not directly DDoSing the game consoles.

A pinball machine connecting to the Internet will be mostly for updates, scores, maybe remote diagnostics, possibly sharing game states between machines so you can play multiplayer with others who have the same machines as you.

I am not worried about DDoSing of a pinball machine connected to a network being a huge concern.

Could Stern's servers that that run the infrastructure be DDoSed? Sure they could..

Stern could also use https://www.cloudflare.com/ddos like everyone else and call it a day.

It's tough listening to idiots all day.

yes and they won't know, nor care what it is.