Stern Pinball machines to be assembled in Brazil?!


By AlexSMendes

2 months ago


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  • Latest reply 2 months ago by AlexSMendes
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There are 92 posts in topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 87 days ago

According to some people I first talked to, targeted just for the local (SA), market - first units to be delivered by December...

Titles mentioned: Aerosmith, Star Wars, Ghostbusters and WWE!?

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1600581659981626&id=669161749790293

#2 87 days ago

I saw that on FB, but wasn't sure what to make of it.

#4 87 days ago

I'm sorry, but the only thing I see in Gary's eyes are $$$$$$$$$

#5 87 days ago

I think that's great news! Spreading the love of pinball down south.

#6 87 days ago

The thing I found more interesting in the speech is 15 people pooled together to buy an Aerosmith LE. Which brings two things in mind a) great collaboration b)pinball machines are getting too expensive

#7 87 days ago
Quoted from fisherdaman:

I think that's great news! Spreading the love of pinball down south.

Not sure that's what Stern is thinking when they begin production in Brazil.

#8 87 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

I'm sorry, but the only thing I see in Gary's eyes are $$$$$$$$$

So what's wrong with that?

If the headline was - US manufacturer expands global market by opening factory in Brazil - would you be so negative?

It is a good sign for pinball, at least until they start importing them here.

Doesn't Brazil have crazy tariffs on stuff like this?

#9 87 days ago

Why did they move to a larger factory if they are going to farm out building some to other countries?

#10 87 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Not sure that's what Stern is thinking when they begin production in Brazil.

Well obviously. But yeah, bottom line is that the product will be cheaper down there for OPs thus spreading pinball down south. They just built that new facility in Chicago so I assume we wont see anything being imported from Brazil.

#11 87 days ago

Setting up a factory in Europe would make more sense. ...

#12 87 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

I'm sorry, but the only thing I see in Gary's eyes are $$$$$$$$$

I've seen a lot of people bash Stern for this. How much was a new pin in 1990. According to my rough calculations $3500 in 1990 would be about $6500 now, and $4500 in 1990 would be about $8500 now. I agree, pinballs are very expensive, but was wondering if there has been a huge price increase, or is most of this inflation?

#13 87 days ago
Quoted from master_of_chaos:

Setting up a factory in Europe would make more sense. ...

I suspect they are going for cheaper labor costs.

#14 87 days ago

From reading comments from Pinsiders in South America, taxes on some imported goods is as high as 100% and as low as 50%. If the product is assembled in Brazil it would avoid the higher import tax.

#15 87 days ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

The thing I found more interesting in the speech is 15 people pooled together to buy an Aerosmith LE. Which brings two things in mind a) great collaboration b)pinball machines are getting too expensive

Federal custom taxes in Brazil are huge! Not to say shipping costs.... And that specific machine went to the pinball club.

#17 87 days ago

I believe back in the 70's and 80's pins were produced by Taito in Brazil just for the Brazilian market. Most of them were essentially Bally/Williams games (see Black Knight for example) with similar artwork but produced with the Taito name.

I would guess this was done because the tariff's were so high but the people wanted pinballs, so the market was born for Taito. Taito made some of their own unique games too.

Maybe Stern producing them there directly will result in lower prices (and therefore increased sales) for the Brazilian market, and none of them will be exported out of the country (also due to the tariff's).

Just speculation of course.

11
#18 87 days ago
Quoted from dnapac:

I've seen a lot of people bash Stern for this. How much was a new pin in 1990. According to my rough calculations $3500 in 1990 would be about $6500 now, and $4500 in 1990 would be about $8500 now. I agree, pinballs are very expensive, but was wondering if there has been a huge price increase, or is most of this inflation?

Inflation calculations only work if you maintain similar quality. They've obviously cheapened the product and process along with raising costs.

#19 87 days ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

How huge?

Quoted from Darcy:

From reading comments from Pinsiders in South America, taxes on some imported goods is as high as 100% and as low as 50%. If the product is assembled in Brazil it would avoid the higher import tax.

Actually, 60% to 100%...

18
#20 87 days ago

So they finally ran out of the "Made In The USA" stickers for the glass?

#21 87 days ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Why did they move to a larger factory if they are going to farm out building some to other countries?

You can't bring new completed pinball machines into Brazil (so says a friend of mine who is from Brazil but now lives in Rockford, IL). So Stern can't sell games there. If they build them in Brazil, then they can sell them in Brazil.

#22 87 days ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Why did they move to a larger factory if they are going to farm out building some to other countries?

Will take years to build up a new factory in Brazil that is up to the standard of their existing one. Once they do, the existing big factory gets used for warehousing and management. Maybe the old factory is used solely for making LE's and boutique small run games, and for sampling/prototyping, and the new one is used for pros/the pin etc. This exact path has been followed by Western European manufacturers over the past 10-20 years. What used to be large state of the art manufacturing facilities are now just state of the art logistics, admin and sampling/prototype production - all the actual production is in eastern Europe, Africa or Asia.

#23 87 days ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

You can't bring new completed pinball machines into Brazil (so says a friend of mine who is from Brazil but now lives in Rockford, IL). So Stern can't sell games there. If they build them in Brazil, then they can sell them in Brazil.

Nowadays there's only one Stern distributor for South America, and it's from Chile.

#24 87 days ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

You can't bring new completed pinball machines into Brazil (so says a friend of mine who is from Brazil but now lives in Rockford, IL). So Stern can't sell games there. If they build them in Brazil, then they can sell them in Brazil.

Is the market currently so big in Brazil to justify its own production?

#25 87 days ago

I kind of like that concept. The pinball club owns all the games and chips in together for new equipment.

Not sure what happens when someone moves away. Do they buy that person out?

I wonder if it's open to the public for coin drop play, or if it's just a private warehouse.

#26 87 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Will take years to build up a new factory in Brazil that is up to the standard of their existing one. Once they do, the existing big factory gets used for warehousing and management. Maybe the old factory is used solely for making LE's and boutique small run games, and for sampling/prototyping, and the new one is used for pros/the pin etc. This exact path has been followed by Western European manufacturers over the past 10-20 years. What used to be large state of the art manufacturing facilities are now just state of the art logistics and admin - all the actual production is in eastern Europe, Africa or Asia.

Looks like there's already an old pinball factory that will be modernized, and I don't think they'll build pins from zero, just assemble them....

#27 87 days ago

it's hard to get anything in and out of brazil without paying a fortune. Maybe this will open the door for us and we can start importing from brazil for reasonable. I like the sound of that. For obscure game collectors like me, this is good news as there is a lot of goodies there, i'm trying to get here.

#28 87 days ago
Quoted from AlexSMendes:

Nowadays there's only one Stern distributor for South America, and it's from Chile.

Pinball Sales in South America can not be huge numbers? 50 units a year? 100 units? What would be a fair guess?

#29 87 days ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

Not sure what happens when someone moves away. Do they buy that person out?

Yep.

Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

I wonder if it's open to the public for coin drop play, or if it's just a private warehouse.

Private - sometimes they hold open events to the general public - maybe once or twice per year....

#30 87 days ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

it's hard to get anything in and out of brazil without paying a fortune. Maybe this will open the door for us and we can start importing from brazil for reasonable. I like the sound of that. For obscure game collectors like me, this is good news as there is a lot of goodies there, i'm trying to get here.

Taito pins???

#31 87 days ago
Quoted from AlexSMendes:

Taito pins???

some, but mainly euro stuff that you guys seem to have a lot of.

#32 87 days ago
Quoted from Darcy:

Pinball Sales in South America can not be huge numbers? 50 units a year? 100 units? What would be a fair guess?

I don't know about other countries, but in Brazil, maybe a bit more than 100 units for Stern new titles...

#33 87 days ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

some, but mainly euro stuff that you guys seem to have a lot of.

That euro stuff you'd find in Argentina... Zaccaria mainly...

#34 87 days ago

Maybe it's a local partnership/license agreement?

#35 87 days ago

It was not uncommon in coin-op past to set up "final assembly" plants in other countries to avoid paying super high import taxes. In the video era, logic boards and art packages were sent over and cabinets were built locally and things like control panels, Coin Doors and Monitors and power supplies were sourced elsewhere for import.

Remember, there was once an Atari Factory in Ireland.

While the local consumption of Pinball in Brazil may not justify production, there may be other export advantages to build in Brazil and export to other nearby countries.

Playfields will more than likely be assembled in the US and then exported to the final build factory location.

#36 87 days ago

From what I remember, Brazil has extraordinarily high import taxes and tariffs. Perhaps Stern sees this as an opportunity not to offload labor to other countries, but instead to satiate demand in other countries by manufacturing the product there to negate import taxes.

If that's the case, it would then probably make sense to have a European factory as well.

#37 87 days ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Why did they move to a larger factory if they are going to farm out building some to other countries?

Rumor has it that they intend to go into casino gaming after the current pinball boom winds down.

#38 87 days ago
Quoted from DennisDodel:

Rumor has it that they intend to go into casino gaming after the current pinball boom winds down.

That's where all the money is. New slots are $25k+.

#39 87 days ago
Quoted from DennisDodel:

Rumor has it that they intend to go into casino gaming after the current pinball boom winds down.

Real rumour? Wouldn't surprise me. Seems to be the natural path of devolution for pinball manufacturers.

#40 87 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Real rumour? Wouldn't surprise me. Seems to be the natural path of devolution for pinball manufacturers.

Heard it from a very reliable source when they first announced the move. I've mentioned it here a few times.

#41 87 days ago

yes, but with the massive profit margin they are making, they should not be moving manufacturing out of the USA. Unless they are building them there, for there only.

#42 87 days ago

Would be nice if they did some manufactoring closer to Australia too

#43 87 days ago

What are the economic Ratios from Brazil?

Would it result in Grey Market Imports, or used containers in the Future?

A good thing for them, as likely a Major Commercial Market to tap.

#44 87 days ago
Quoted from DennisDodel:

Rumor has it that they intend to go into casino gaming after the current pinball boom winds down.

That was the plan from day one with the new factory

#45 87 days ago

What the numbers on $3200 in 2000? That's what I paid for my NIB RFM from Betson

Edit

Quoted from dnapac:

I've seen a lot of people bash Stern for this. How much was a new pin in 1990. According to my rough calculations $3500 in 1990 would be about $6500 now, and $4500 in 1990 would be about $8500 now. I agree, pinballs are very expensive, but was wondering if there has been a huge price increase, or is most of this inflation?

Inflat (resized).png

#46 87 days ago

In the 70s, Gottlieb shipped unassembled game components to Manaus, Brazil because it was a Tax Free Zone and assembly was finished there by Fipermatic, a Brazilian import and export firm. These components were:

Backglass
Playfield
Lightbox insert
Lower cabinet insert (aka motor board)

Gottlieb did not ship the playfield glass or the cabinet. Those components would have to be procured (locally) by the recipient.

The "Old Stern" did the same in 1978-1980, shipping "knock-down games" to Australia, where the cabinet and playfield glass (among other components, like maybe the speaker, IIRC) were procured locally for final assembly by Leisure & Allied Industries, Inc. I've been working intensively for over a year now with a few very helpful collectors in Australia to pictorially document these LAI games on the IPDB and still am not done. One game, Cosmic Princess, was sold only in Australia as Stern did not sell it in the USA.

#47 87 days ago
Quoted from Monster_Bash:

What the numbers on $3200 in 2000? That's what I paid for my NIB RFM from Betson
Edit

Ah. Good to know. Not trying to defend, just understand. I guess, as long as people are paying, the price will keep going up. Just glad that pinball has returned from the dead and now new companies are getting in. Competition is good for consumers.

#48 87 days ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

It was not uncommon in coin-op past to set up "final assembly" plants in other countries to avoid paying super high import taxes. In the video era, logic boards and art packages were sent over and cabinets were built locally and things like control panels, Coin Doors and Monitors and power supplies were sourced elsewhere for import

Bingo.

No panic people ... this is what will be happening.

Stern will ship components to a plant in Brazil for final assembly ... all to skirt around the Brazilian import taxes.

You might find that they will ship fully completed playfield assemblies ... maybe cabinets in knock down form, or maybe the local guys will make the cabinets locally. Anyone can make a pinball cabinet and slap some stickers on it.

This is what happened with arcade games in New Zealand in the 70s/80s. We had horrendous import taxes to protect the local manufacturers. So the gaming companies imported only the game boards and controls from the manufacturer, and the cabinets and TV components were made here. Yes, NZ used to make its own TVs....

In the 70s, Stern Pinball used to ship components to LAI in Australia for the same reason. LAI assembled all the parts locally to avoid the taxes.

rd

Edit: IPDB posted the same stuff at the same time.

#49 87 days ago

Great article here when Atari opened a manufacturing plant in Ireland

https://arcadeblogger.com/2017/08/25/atari-ireland/

Quoted from rotordave:

Bingo.
No panic people ... this is what will be happening.
Stern will ship components to a plant in Brazil for final assembly ... all to skirt around the Brazilian import taxes.
You might find that they will ship fully completed playfield assemblies ... maybe cabinets in knock down form, or maybe the local guys will make the cabinets locally. Anyone can make a pinball cabinet and slap some stickers on it.
This is what happened with arcade games in New Zealand in the 70s/80s. We had horrendous import taxes to protect the local manufacturers. So the gaming companies imported only the game boards and controls from the manufacturer, and the cabinets and TV components were made here. Yes, NZ used to make its own TVs....
In the 70s, Stern Pinball used to ship components to LAI in Australia for the same reason. LAI assembled all the parts locally to avoid the taxes.
rd

#50 87 days ago
Quoted from dnapac:

I've seen a lot of people bash Stern for this. How much was a new pin in 1990. According to my rough calculations $3500 in 1990 would be about $6500 now, and $4500 in 1990 would be about $8500 now. I agree, pinballs are very expensive, but was wondering if there has been a huge price increase, or is most of this inflation?

I bought a Bally Playboy NIB from Mountain Coin in Denver in February 1979 for $1695.00 plus tax. The CPI calculator puts this dollar amount at $6004.52 for July 2017.

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