OK, so here it goes. I had the chance to switch glass with lights on, off, etc. I'm going to provide pics here for comparison but I'm noticing that the camera is picking up some glare that I don't notice with the naked eye. That said IN MY PARTICULAR CONDITIONS I cannot see a noticeable difference between Stern HD and Invisiglass. I do not have PDI glass to compare to but I would not hesitate to buy additional sheets (especially with the local pickup option by Stern to avoid shipping fees).

FIRST PIC

STOCK GLASS LEFT and STERN HD RIGHT (There is a huge improvement with glare and it looks great on GB). The pictures don't do it justice but I'm happy with this upgrade from the stock glass.

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LEFT INVISAGLASS and RIGHT STERN HD

The difference here was subtle if any. I can see a slight difference in the pics but from the naked eye it was a toss up. For the price I would go Stern HD with my particular conditions...

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Stern HD on GB. I'm a happy customer. The glass makes the playfield colors POP. Nothing looks washed out and the glare is minimal to none. I'm looking forward to putting some games on GB tonight and enjoying it's newest addition.

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One other additional thing that I noticed. Standard glass reflects my can lighting with it's true Sunlight LED color. Invisaglass tints that color green. Stern HD tints that same LED color purple/red. This isn't noticeable unless I angle myself to allow the can lighting to reflect on the glass but when I do those are the color variances for bright light. The playfield colors remain true however and are not altered.

Hope this helps. Happy to answer any questions if I can.

A clear sheet of glass makes playfield colors pop, got it.

Thank up so much for the review with pictures!

I agree that the glass is very similar from your pics.
There are differences though albeit very subtle.
In my opinion (from the pics) the JJP invisiglass had slightly better color and very slightly better anti-reflection. But only in a few areas.

For the money on a single sheet it seems the Stern Glass is a great value.

In quantities of 4 sheets, it seems that JJP also has a good deal. So I guess call your friends and buy in bulk?

I wonder what Stern's bulk price is?

It's does make them appear more vibrant as they don't look as washed out from glare. That's correct. I dont think thats a misleading statement. Thanks for your comment, though.

Anyone in ct southern mass want to split a 4 pack of JJP? PM me.

No problem. It's not very scientific but it helped me to see a direct side by side comparison. I guess my conclusion is regardless if Stern HD is better than Invisiglass or not I would buy the less expensive of the two as the differences are too subtle to identify or sway me in either direction. I can't comment on PDI as I dont own any but that would be interesting to see side by side.

stpcore is there any chance you could do another version of your second test/photo, but with the glass swapped round? So SHD left JJP right? So the glass can be compared on identical sides of the playfield? Thanks in advance.

I am not saying itnos not worth the price...I was just looking for the glare to be reduce alot with the new Stern HD glass and it did not make hardly any difference.

They have a 30 day return policy so I know Stern will honor that policy. Guess my dad is taking all 14 sheets back. I was just looking for more of a difference and I did not see it for me to keep them all.

is there a right way and a wrong way to put the glass in?

Hi Neo,

you´re repeating yourself and I do the same, but when I´ve asked you to name those guys who told you that you won`t see any reflections I don´t get any response from you.
Here is something I found especially for you dated back to January 2009.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.games.pinball/oikWHKfuZkQ
Tags: DMD glare
Please read those postings very, very carefully and stop claiming something you can`t prove.
If you should have questions then ask them.
There are a lot of very friendly people around here to help you out.

Generally the etched logo should read correctly when installed.
If the text is reversed the glass is upside-down.

There is not anything etched on the Stern HD glass that I noticed. There is a manufacture date on the outside of the box. No instructions where included so I don't believe installation method will cause any variables in performance.

I apologize in advance for multiple posts. I think something important to consider is this... If you have never seen Invisiglass or PDI glass installed on a pin you really don't know what to expect (regarding anti glare and performance) when you install Stern HD. If you are under the assumption that 100 percent of glare is eliminated with these glass upgrades then you will be disappointed to a certain extent because there is some glare (most noticeably from the backglass/DMD area) on all three of these types of glass. By believing that all glare is eliminated means that your expectations are set too high in my opinion. Now if you have seen and can appreciate what Invisiglass and PDI can do to improve overall appearance of your playfield then Stern HD will not disappoint.

Full disclosure, the first time I saw PDI on my friends MMr I was not impressed because I could certainly see the backglass and DMD reflecting on the glass. I thought to myself that I would never spend money on this type of glass because I didn't see the benefit as I was also under the impression that glare would be completely eliminated (not a fair assumption). A year later when I received my Hobbit Smaug it had Invisaglass already installed. After I compared it in my row of pins I could appreciate the difference and I was liking it. I'm sure i would have felt the same if PDI glass was on my Hobbit. There was still some backglass/LCD glare but the transparent quality of a majority of the playfield was extremely impressive. I have that same feeling looking at my Ghostbusters now (with Stern HD glass installed). My third pin (Scared Stiff) still has stock glass and I'm convinced it needs to be replaced at this point.

I'm not being loyal to any particular company here. Stern simply has the lower pricing on glass that seems up to par with Invisiglass. So when I order a sheet to replace the stock glass on my Scared Stiff I will order it from Stern. If JJP or PDI lowered their price and it benefited me cost wise I would place that order from them. Plain and simple.

Don't expect all glare to be removed from the backbox/DMD area. Do expect a very noticeable visual upgrade to your playfield. If DMD glare is bothering you buy a piece of Bent Plastic from Pinball Life. If backbox glare is still bothering you try decreasing the LED illumination in your settings (if on a newer Stern). Thanks for letting me share here!

I buy new $35 sheet of glass for every game that enters my gameroom. The difference between even mildly scratched glass and a fresh sheet is huge. My gameroom has near perfect lighting and black ceilings to minimize reflections, so the difference for PDI is not worth the big bucks. You really have to struggle to tell the difference between the glass on WOZ and the other games in my gameroom especially when they are clean top and bottom. I've seen the PDI comparisons to Invisiglass and PDI is noticeably better. I would probably buy PDI for my nicer games if I could get it at my door for $100 or less per sheet.

Thank you for the side by side!!! Something to seriously consider, as it seems they are similar ( based on pics and your comments).

I've found that pics never do true justice for this high end glass. It always looks way better in person.

My hope from a third competitor is that it drives the price down on ALL the versions. I would like to stay with, and support PDI, but it seems the price difference is becoming " real money" now......maybe Roman will have some positive news on this front, moving forward.....

Hey, Neo! Did you ever try the PDI stuff, or did you just get Invisiglass and figured they were comparable? Because I sold my Invisiglass to get PDI...it was that much better for me. Not sure how BigD isn't seeing that in a side by side comparison. Non pinheads in my house could tell the difference between regular glass, Invisiglass, and PDI.

I bought 4 sheets of P.D.I.glass before it went crazy! This offering from Stern looks to be as good! I'll see on WED.!!!

I'm old and my vision is poor. In my gameroom, the differences between regular glass, Invisiglass and PDI are immediately noticible to me and my visitors (they don't understand why particular machines are better, they just comment they are).

If I can see the difference, anyone can.

I bought Invisiglass before I knew about PDI. If it wasn't such a hassle to try and sell it, I'd go entirely PDI if I could.

why is it needed? i buy $20 super clean nice tempered glass in bulk. if you are in a garage or location with bright overhead lights, even with glass off it reflects on the play field. no glass can stop that.

Not needed. Just looks better.

Not just me bud.... anyone that has come by can tell no real difference in my game room. I have them beside one another also. Some even said the invisaglass was clearer lol. It dont matter to me as im just happy to have museum glass im all my pins for basically free. I have no glare from backbox or color dmds and can see perfectly fine even during a sunny day , which was not possible before in my one gameroom. If i had a choice id buy the pdi tho as the finish is overall better but both do a great job at getting rid of annoying reflections. Even posted few pics on here asking if anyone cld see a difference and no one cld. May just be the way i have my game room and lighting set up who knows lol

This is from a previous PDI not shipping thread..

Pretty amazing. A secondary reason to spend the money...

My expectations are not too high.......but the prices currently are. And I buy color dmd's and just spent over 7.5k on a new pin. But that's just me. A color dmd is worth $400 but less reflective glass is not worth $300 (or even $200). When prices hit $150 I'll start buying.

I just have the invisiglass and most people I talked to, said PDI isn't that much different.

As for previous discussions years ago. I can't remember, it was being talked about in numerous threads on RGP back in those days during the developmental process. There was more than one thread discussing it and the expectations of it. You expect me to remember who said what and when back in the day before PDI glass even existed. I know there was one thread where people were experimenting with polerized film over DMD's, and the anti glass was talked about there, as well as many other threads. Some started out talking about cost, some were about performance and expectations. Anyone that was following those threads back in the day, knows it was talked about as eliminating DMD and backglass glare. Nobody talked about ambient room lighting, because that wasn't something people gave a shit about.

And seeing this stuff at shows, is very misleading. When you have K-mart style lighting, it looks great. Because the move obvious bright lights are reduced and you focus on that. But when you get it home where that kind of stuff usually isn't a problem, that's when you notice the stuff that you have problems with at home are still there. I have seen PDI and Invisiglass at shows, and they look impressive there, but there you are focusing at the lack of huge florescent lights being gone, and not about the DMD and BG reflections.

think that's just regular glass. All the sheets look normal. I've seen this video years ago. It's just standard tempered pinball glass. just showing how strong it is and what it really can take. As long as nothing hot or cold touches it, or you ting the edges. Really good examples of what glass really can take. Set it down on edge on concrete and many times it just bursts because of temp changes.

So maybe I missed it, obviously you weren't impressed with the Stern glass but have you tried Invisiglass or PDI on these sames games in the same lighting conditions you currently have to compare if you think either of those is better? Really curious if maybe you just are of the opinion glass like this doesn't justify the price. I for one have invisiglass and love it, makes a world of difference in my house on my games. Have had many friends about put their hand thru it thinking there was not glass there. On top of that many love PDI even better.

I expect you to find evidence of the crap you are harping on. I can still find stupid things I said on usenet in 1994, surely you can back up what you are saying with a link to it. The internet never forgets. I don't expect you to remember who, I expect you to find who.

And I wouldn't say it like that, except that you are a complete broken record and keep using what was "said" over and over. I'd suspect you are full of crap without actually pointing to the stuff you talk about over and over... and over... and over... and over... (and over...) and_over_.

And over!

Now who's the broken record

but it's not worth my time to go through RGP and look at all the threads we've talked about. It would be like going through an encyclopedia looking for specific sentences, without knowing the pages or volumes they were on. You remember reading it and talking about it when it happened, but try and find it years later. Not going to happen. There are plenty of us from RGP that were on there. Anyone that cared about the antiglare glass when it was in the developmental process, knows how it was boasted about and what it was initially designed to accomplish.

Yeah no doubt. Glad I need prescription glasses and cant wear contacts as my glasses saved me eye damage for sure when a sheet of standard glass touched a corner edge first on the concrete floor as I set it down and blew up into my face like a brick of Black Cats duct taped to an M-80. Warning Will Robinson.....

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it was talked about before that. Discussed in depth, when it was being developed and worked on like the polerizing film. There are way more threads than that one talking about it.

How many is bulk and from what type of store? The local Pin shop nearbyish sells regular glass for $65. Thanks

When was it ? Who told you about those fairytales about zero reflection in all conditions and viewing angles ?
People talk a lot and if they can add value to the written word by providing additional information (links, pics, videos, references a.s.o) then their argumentation is worth considering and if not, it´s just hot air.

For instance:

Who told you that the glass in the video is standard tempered pinball glass ?

the video looks like it. reflective as all shit.

As far as discussion, it was when people were talking about having it made. Through tests on sections they tested, they were hoping for all glare to be eliminated. Might not have been you. There was others trying to develop it , with the polerizing film.

It´s not

I can go to bed now because I thought all the time you were blaming me for not providing facts.
But how could you trust those who were hoping and trying to develop something and didn`t succeed ?

When I break glass I don't wear eye protection either!

When Roman finds someone else that can distribute in the USA, maybe we can get a bulk order in and have it delivered to the VFW show. I would buy a PDI sheet from that show ... anyone else?

PDI breaks too ( first hand experience...no more drinking and pulling the glass)....happened awhile back....you don't need eye protection..just tissues to wipe the tears....

Don't know where this show is...but I'm in the middle of nowhere...NEED 2 sheets....hoping Roman can scheme something....any discount appreciated!!!

Oh, nonsense. You're right near the guy in Black Mountain that's making my hammered dulcimer.

(Thinking about driving down there to pick it up. I hear the BBQ is to DIE for...)

You are correct on both counts...if your near this VFW show, bring 2 sheets of PDI with you ( I'll buy of course) and I'll take you to one of the best BBQ joints around ...but we can't eat it around the glass...too messy....

IIRC, the glass that Roman was breaking in the video was a bad batch of the non-glare glass.

Is that Eastern or Lexington style?

Ha...I prefer the tomato based version....but people seem to kill for the Lexington, vinegar based.....

Somewhat unrelated but as some others and I have pointed out the DMD glare eliminators from comet work wonders. I imagine using one of these in conjunction with anti glare glass would help significantly. I have attached some before and after pictures with the glare eliminators for reference. Please note this is on standard glass.

Someone also mentioned the piece that pinball life sells. I have no experience with it, but I'm sure it works well too. I just think it's kind of ugly. With this product from comet you won't even know it's there after it's installed.

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