(Topic ID: 183274)

Stern Pinball Anti-glare glass

By DCFAN

7 years ago


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    There are 835 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 17.
    #251 7 years ago
    Quoted from MagicJumpi:

    Invisiglass pricing in Germany(Europe) can be found here:
    http://www.shop.freddys-pinball-paradise.de/index.php?n=40&s=490&e=50&m=&p=1&o=1&guid=&l=1&q=&lang=e&lnge=1
    Roman/PDI pricing can be found here:
    http://www.pinballnews.com/learn/glass/index.html
    Please consider that both links show pricing including VAT (local sales tax) which is 19% in Germany

    Why hasn't Roman glass been offered in the US at a much lower price since the Euro is no longer worth so much more than the dollar?
    Why not have more than one distributor? PDI always seems to be the highest price for almost everything.

    #252 7 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    They should use a picture where somebody clown puked the backbox with 50 high output LEDs.
    That way you would know that it can prevent reflections from the 6 primary LED colors......

    I agree with this completely. While I actually do have fluorescent lighting above my games at the moment, that's because I havent yet pulled them down. I'd love to see the difference in an exposed backbox and how it could do.

    If I decide to leave the fluorescent lights above my pins, I may reconsider my want to purchase some of this.

    #253 7 years ago

    So how much is the Roman glass here in the U.S.?

    #254 7 years ago

    Maybe I should rethink the glass?

    1489619305456728443430 (resized).jpg1489619305456728443430 (resized).jpg

    #255 7 years ago
    Quoted from goatdan:

    Maybe I should rethink the glass?

    might want to block out that window. Those reds in BSD are pretty nice. Orbitor with the hood up? broken?

    #256 7 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    might want to block out that window. Those reds in BSD are pretty nice. Orbitor with the hood up? broken?

    The window will hopefully be redone sort of soon.

    That's not just one Orbitor with the hood up, it's two. I bought one for a friend who has helped me a ton repairing the house, and it had an issue. I swapped things back and forth and everything except for one board seemed to be working in mine. I got a replacement board since the one I was looking at was hacked, and...

    Now neither machine fires up. And, thanks to MGC, they both are just sitting there.

    Kind of funny, I currently have three sets of twins set up in the basement for various reasons.

    #257 7 years ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    Why hasn't Roman glass been offered in the US at a much lower price since the Euro is no longer worth so much more than the dollar?
    Why not have more than one distributor? PDI always seems to be the highest price for almost everything.

    Joey has exclusive rights to sell the glass over on this side of the pond. That was part of the deal he made with Roman years ago when he became a distributor.

    #258 7 years ago

    Buy the glass; don't buy the glass. Who cares? If you like special glass, great! If you don't, don't bitch. I blinged out my Hook of all things with full leds and put PDI in it and I can tell a difference. To each their own. I don't give a damn what anybody thinks about my setup and neither should anybody else about theirs.

    #259 7 years ago
    Quoted from MagicJumpi:

    Invisiglass pricing in Germany(Europe) can be found here:
    http://www.shop.freddys-pinball-paradise.de/index.php?n=40&s=490&e=50&m=&p=1&o=1&guid=&l=1&q=&lang=e&lnge=1
    Roman/PDI pricing can be found here:
    http://www.pinballnews.com/learn/glass/index.html
    Please consider that both links show pricing including VAT (local sales tax) which is 19% in Germany

    The reflection from the game title (Walking Dead) is not as rich and bright as on the left pic, so I`d say that there is a noticable improvement in comparison to a regular sheet.
    The light conditions in Stern`s new factory are good (a lot of artificial light everywhere).
    Considering this as given my next thought is that in darker spots the reflections will increase (Neo your call).
    I can image that Stern`s new glass might be somewhere at a reflective rate close to 1% and
    I`m curious to see the first test results and impressions.

    OK that's ridiculous. Let's see, 132Eur is $145 USD but it sells for $299.

    #260 7 years ago
    Quoted from goatdan:

    I agree with this completely. While I actually do have fluorescent lighting above my games at the moment, that's because I havent yet pulled them down. I'd love to see the difference in an exposed backbox and how it could do.
    If I decide to leave the fluorescent lights above my pins, I may reconsider my want to purchase some of this.

    If I'm not mistaken, I'm under the assumption florescent lights promote fade, you might want to change them.
    They'd probably be cheaper than PDI.

    #261 7 years ago

    Glad to see another option. Good enough for me.

    Better make sure the glass doesn't chip and dimple first

    PDI is too unpredictable. I want to get it when I order it. So Stern it is for me

    #262 7 years ago
    Quoted from spidey:

    OK that's ridiculous. Let's see, 132Eur is $145 USD but it sells for $299.

    I only ever ordered once from PDI when I first got into the hobby, haven't ordered since everything is just marked up to high, glass is a problem as it's exclusive there but most other things are cheaper else where.

    #263 7 years ago
    Quoted from waltrr:

    If I'm not mistaken, I'm under the assumption florescent lights promote fade, you might want to change them.
    They'd probably be cheaper than PDI.

    The gameroom is under terrible construction right now, as I'm fixing the foundation issues and trying to make things look nice down there. Those lights are basically never on, don't worry. The whole ceiling is going to be redone before games really get set up down there, and all of the lighting is changing too.

    Hoping to fit a few machines down there before it's all said and done. So far, I've managed to put 3040 pounds of mortar into the walls :-/

    And honestly, after seeing Neo's glass, I think that my lighting plans will be enough that PDI glass won't be necessary. If I was keeping that, I'd get PDI glass instead

    #264 7 years ago
    Quoted from spidey:

    OK that's ridiculous. Let's see, 132Eur is $145 USD but it sells for $299.

    That's why I was commenting on the markup earlier in the thread. There is definitely room for someone to come in and price it much more aggressively. Now that Stern is undercutting JJP, what's to stop PDI or JJP from undercutting them?

    26
    #265 7 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    Backglass and DMD glare is still there.

    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    it was designed to eliminate display and backglass glare.

    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    will Eliminate backglass and display glare". That was the sole purpose of it's development.

    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    Does it reduce the glare sure. but about 20% for backbox/display.

    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    But when you start looking at the actual things you need it for, the difference is slight.

    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    Need to compare side by side with the games on and show the display and backglass regions. Then you see the difference on how much of the stuff that matters is blocked out.

    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    but not that great at blocking out the shit that matters like DMD and backglass glare.

    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    Notice how there isn't any pics of the DMD and backbox glare?

    IMG_0151 (resized).JPGIMG_0151 (resized).JPG

    #266 7 years ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    Why hasn't Roman glass been offered in the US at a much lower price since the Euro is no longer worth so much more than the dollar?
    Why not have more than one distributor? PDI always seems to be the highest price for almost everything.

    Because less people bitch when you do not drop prices then when you raise prices and your prices would be a yo yo if they changed on every 10% move in the forex market

    24
    #267 7 years ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    Why hasn't Roman glass been offered in the US at a much lower price since the Euro is no longer worth so much more than the dollar?
    Why not have more than one distributor? PDI always seems to be the highest price for almost everything.

    Pinball is a hobby for many or the most of us... but it is business for a few as well.
    Please always remember that.
    The pace is picking up and today we`ve reached a point where you have
    to pay for the pizza plus each topping separately and a few years back you`ve got a stuffed pizza
    at the same price.
    Inflation ?
    Maybe, just a little.
    GREEEEEEEEEEEED ?
    This is what I see and what I`m not willing to support anymore talking about buying NIB games, used or shopped games and corresponding after market products.
    The only protest mark you can set is not to buy a product.
    Blaming others makes no sense you have to start with yourself.
    You have the power and not the manufacturer/supplier.

    My glass:
    Looking back to 2008 my idea was to provide something new to the pinball community
    with a visible effect on gameplay perception.
    The demand grew nationally and internationally very quick and I had to find a solution
    to make the product available for many at a reasonable price level.
    I had and have no influence on pricing from others.

    Today my goal is to find more interested pinheads or shops in the US to make the product accessible
    for many at reasonable prices (adapted to the market situation) since I do see now that the price point in the US is
    affecting the buyers emotions negatively.
    This was not intended at all.
    Pinball is fun and a hobby. This is what and how it should be.

    Roman

    #268 7 years ago
    Quoted from MagicJumpi:

    Today my goal is to find more interested pinheads or shops in the US to make the product accessible for many at reasonable prices (adapted to the market situation) since I do see now that the price point in the US is affecting the buyers emotions negatively.

    Very interesting. Does this mean that Joey's exclusivity will be ending soon?

    #269 7 years ago

    ^The Price Wars have started.

    th (resized).jpgth (resized).jpg

    #270 7 years ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    The Price Wars have started.

    I hope so, please drive down the price. $300 for a sheet of glass, ouch...

    #271 7 years ago

    If you want a meaningful, practical test, have someone over that has no knowledge of your varies types of glass and let them just play unaware and if they don't take notice of it without prompting then it's probably not for them. Anything else carries some investment bias.

    I played at a friends house for an hour and never noticed that one of his machines had Invisiglass, so it is definitely not all things for all people.

    #272 7 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    Very interesting. Does this mean that Joey's exclusivity will be ending soon?

    Anything that improves or offers pinheads a better deal is a welcome change, I had no idea PDI was so expensive for you guys over in the US, better pricing all round!

    #273 7 years ago
    Quoted from alveolus:

    If you want a meaningful, practical test, have someone over that has no knowledge of your varies types of glass and let them just play unaware and if they don't take notice of it without prompting then it's probably not for them. Anything else carries some investment bias.
    I played at a friends house for an hour and never noticed that one of his machines had Invisiglass, so it is definitely not all things for all people.

    I have literally reached down to do something on the playfield and hit the glass thinking the glass was off. I have also had non-pinball people ask if there was glass on the top and then they reach down and touch it to see/feel to confirm.

    #274 7 years ago
    Quoted from MagicJumpi:

    Pinball is a hobby for many or the most of us... but it is business for a few as well.
    Please always remember that.
    The pace is picking up and today we`ve reached a point where you have
    to pay for the pizza plus each topping separately and a few years back you`ve got a stuffed pizza
    at the same price.
    Inflation ?
    Maybe, just a little.
    GREEEEEEEEEEEED ?
    This is what I see and what I`m not willing to support anymore talking about buying NIB games, used or shopped games and corresponding after market products.
    The only protest mark you can set is not to buy a product.
    Blaming others makes no sense you have to start with yourself.
    You have the power and not the manufacturer/supplier.
    My glass:
    Looking back to 2008 my idea was to provide something new to the pinball community
    with a visible effect on gameplay perception.
    The demand grew nationally and internationally very quick and I had to find a solution
    to make the product available for many at a reasonable price level.
    I had and have no influence on pricing from others.
    Today my goal is to find more interested pinheads or shops in the US to make the product accessible
    for many at reasonable prices (adapted to the market situation) since I do see now that the price point in the US is
    affecting the buyers emotions negatively.
    This was not intended at all.
    Pinball is fun and a hobby. This is what and how it should be.
    Roman

    Im sure cointaker or mezel would easily help distribute your excellent product. Joey makes all of us here in the us take it in the chocolate starfish. Competition is needed and since your product is superior it would sell like hotcakes.

    #275 7 years ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    I have literally reached down to do something on the playfield and hit the glass thinking the glass was off. I have also had non-pinball people ask if there was glass on the top and then they reach down and touch it to see/feel to confirm.

    I don't doubt that, and to them the glass may be worth the expense. For me and others, not so much.

    #276 7 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    Very interesting. Does this mean that Joey's exclusivity will be ending soon?

    Agreements between two parties should stay between those two.
    What I can say is, that we (Joey and I) have spoken last year and I`m not a person who likes to sit on a bench while others play the game. Especially in these dynamic times.

    <blockquote cite="#3654750">I'm sure cointaker or mezel would easily help distribute your excellent product. Joey makes all of us here in the us take it in the chocolate starfish. Competition is needed and since your product is superior it would sell like hotcakes.</blockquote>

    Thanks for your advice. As written above I have no influence on price politics from others, but I do understand that you have to keep a price level to compensate currency deviation as a commercial seller, so please don`t blame Joey for this.
    Live and let live.

    #277 7 years ago

    I've said it before....I love this technology but not at $300 a pop....not even at $200. When it hits $150 it might start to become an interesting option. I can get regular pinball glass for $25 (sometimes less).

    #278 7 years ago
    Quoted from shovelhed:

    Im sure cointaker or mezel would easily help distribute your excellent product. Joey makes all of us here in the us take it in the chocolate starfish. Competition is needed and since your product is superior it would sell like hotcakes.

    It's no secret Joey has huge markups. He sells the Tron arcade mod for $399 and you can get it from pinballlooking for $245. I would bet there is a decent markup on the PDI glass as well and maybe all we need is another distributor in the US.

    15
    #279 7 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    I've said it before....I love this technology but not at $300 a pop....not even at $200. When it hits $150 it might start to become an interesting option.

    I truly believe that $150 is the magic price point. Anyone who can provide a similar product for $150 or less is going to sell a ton of it.

    #280 7 years ago

    There are some headscratchingly expensive mods out there that could use a little competition.

    #281 7 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    I truly believe that $150 is the magic price point. Anyone who can provide a similar product for $150 or less is going to sell a ton of it.

    Can't agree more with this. I like the glare resistant glass but it's never had a value of $300 to me. At $200-$300 I wont buy a sheet but at $150 a piece I'd buy one for all 6 of my machines that it could fit on.

    #282 7 years ago
    Quoted from Rondogg:

    There are some headscratchingly expensive mods out there that could use a little competition.

    If your referring to mods over at PDI, most can be brought else where far cheaper.

    #283 7 years ago

    I find if I keep regular glass scratch free and clean I get by just fine.

    #284 7 years ago
    Quoted from alveolus:

    If you want a meaningful, practical test, have someone over that has no knowledge of your varies types of glass and let them just play unaware and if they don't take notice of it without prompting then it's probably not for them. Anything else carries some investment bias.
    I played at a friends house for an hour and never noticed that one of his machines had Invisiglass, so it is definitely not all things for all people.

    My fiancé who doesn't play pinball or care one bit about it mentioned last night that it looks there is no glass on my Medieval Madness. She had no idea that i switched the glass to Roman's glass. The first time she saw it, she commented. I don't know of a better test available than someone who doesn't play pinball and noticed there was something different WITHOUT knowing I had changed the glass a few days ago.

    #285 7 years ago
    Quoted from MagicJumpi:

    Pinball is a hobby for many or the most of us... but it is business for a few as well.
    Please always remember that.

    Pinball is fun and a hobby. This is what and how it should be.
    Roman

    You make an awesome product and people are just bitching because that's what people do. I paid $300 and it's worth it. Obviously not all of those funds went to you, but I supported the pinball community and those involved. I believe your product is the best one available in the market and it made a noticeable difference on my game. I spent $8500 on a machine, i'm not going to complain about $300 for glass.

    I'm sorry but 90% of this thread has just turned into people bitching about pricing or the glass not doing anything. It's purpose was to talk about Stern's new glass and compare it to the products available on the market.

    I'm curious how it performs (Stern's glass), but unless it outperforms Roman's glass (regardless of price) then I could care less about it. I don't want a half-ass product at half the price. I want the best.

    11
    #286 7 years ago
    Quoted from chrisnack:

    'm curious how it performs (Stern's glass), but unless it outperforms Roman's glass (regardless of price) then I could care less about it. I don't want a half-ass product at half the price. I want the best.

    Sounds like they should charge $500 a sheet then for you

    #287 7 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    I truly believe that $150 is the magic price point. Anyone who can provide a similar product for $150 or less is going to sell a ton of it.

    Sure that's a nice price point. However there is design, manufacturing and distribution behind that. So if the product quality can't be kept the same, no thanks. Maybe if 10,000 sheets are manufactured at once, then the cost would go down, but then that's a lot of inventory sitting there and i doubt that many sheets even sells in 5 years, so it doesn't make sense to do that.

    People complain about the pricing, then things get outsourced overseas and manufacturing in China, then we bitch about stuff not being made in the USA.

    #288 7 years ago
    Quoted from T7:

    Sounds like they should charge $500 a sheet then for you

    LOL, I don't know that i would have bought a sheet at that price without having seen it. Now that i own sheets and have seen what it does, I probably would consider it. However I don't know that i would have "paid to play" had the initial price been $500.

    10
    #289 7 years ago
    Quoted from chrisnack:

    Sure that's a nice price point. However there is design, manufacturing and distribution behind that. So if the product quality can't be kept the same, no thanks. Maybe if 10,000 sheets are manufactured at once, then the cost would go down, but then that's a lot of inventory sitting there and i doubt that many sheets even sells in 5 years, so it doesn't make sense to do that.
    People complain about the pricing, then things get outsourced overseas and manufacturing in China, then we bitch about stuff not being made in the USA.

    Maybe you missed the fact that they are selling the glass fine in Europe at $140 per sheet. And that the same glass is then transported to the US and sold for an additional $160 markup. No additional design or manufacturing - only distribution.

    #290 7 years ago
    Quoted from chrisnack:

    I'm sorry but 90% of this thread has just turned into people bitching about pricing or the glass not doing anything. It's purpose was to talk about Stern's new glass and compare it to the products available on the market.

    Until it's in the hands for people to test what do you expect?

    #291 7 years ago
    Quoted from T7:

    Maybe you missed the fact that they are selling the glass fine in Europe at $140 per sheet. And that the same glass is then transported to the US and sold for an additional $160 markup. No additional design or manufacturing - only distribution.

    I didn't miss that, yup that sucks. However someone got the rights to distribute the product and pick their price. There is easily $50 or more to get that glass over to the US. It's not like these things are coming over in a container with 100's of other sheets.

    #292 7 years ago
    Quoted from BoJo:

    Until it's in the hands for people to test what do you expect?

    Guess I subscribed to see what the results and information were, information I figured would be interesting to learn, and see how it compared to what I already own.

    Shame on me for expecting more, and yup i've contributed to the bitching now..

    #293 7 years ago

    does stern have any on display at AMOA?

    #294 7 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    i'm sure it works just as shitty as JJPs and PDI's.

    Just came in here to see how fast Neo bitched aboot this type of glass. Post #96?!? Getting slow

    #295 7 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Just came in here to see how fast Neo bitched aboot this type of glass. Post #96?!? Getting slow

    I only really bitch about the price point. So either the performance has to drastically increase to meet it's current price point, or the cost has to drastically reduce to match it's performance level. Once those two are aligned. All will be well.

    #296 7 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    I only really bitch about the price point.

    Even at $240 picked up it's a total Rip.

    #297 7 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Even at $240 picked up it's a total Rip.

    I got mine for $150,and I felt ripped off.

    #298 7 years ago
    Quoted from chrisnack:

    You make an awesome product and people are just bitching because that's what people do. I paid $300 and it's worth it. Obviously not all of those funds went to you, but I supported the pinball community and those involved. I believe your product is the best one available in the market and it made a noticeable difference on my game. I spent $8500 on a machine, i'm not going to complain about $300 for glass.

    Hmmm? Would you feel the same way if a normal pinball machine cost $708 instead of $8500? Because that is the same price increase from regular glass to PDI glass ($25 to $300) or 12x.

    #299 7 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    Hmmm? Would you feel the same way if a normal pinball machine cost $708 instead of $8500? Because that is the same price increase from regular glass to PDI glass ($25 to $300) or 12x.

    I've bought a machine for $300 and I've bought one for $8000. What did a machine cost in the 70s? 80s? 90s? I don't think they are probably that crazy given inflation etc. You can get a new machine for somewhere in 6-8k depending on the machine etc. Compared to $2-$3k for a DMD that's nearly 20 years old, that doesn't seem that bad. Or $2000 on a machine that is 30-40 years old?

    PDI is not regular glass, so you can't use that comparison (IMO). I don't think you can compare PDI/Invisi/Stern/whatever to normal glass, that's not apples to apples. Different products.

    At the end of the day, everyone is complaining about the price. If it was $150 people would still complain it's too expensive.

    I guarantee people are spending more money on other items. How much do you spend on a shaker? A topper? On mods? i guarantee some of the people in this thread complaining about the price the of glass have spend that money on other things that other people would find ridiculous. $300 for a topper? That's pointless, it doesn't do anything. $300 on mods? Do they change the gameplay in anyway? The list goes on and on...

    #300 7 years ago
    Quoted from chrisnack:

    $300 for a topper? That's pointless, it doesn't do anything. $300 on mods? Do they change the gameplay in anyway? The list goes on and on...

    Agreed...you're all pissing monies away together

    There are 835 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 17.

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