(Topic ID: 183274)

Stern Pinball Anti-glare glass

By DCFAN

7 years ago


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    There are 835 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 17.
    #101 7 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    What was your shipping charge on the glass? Looks like Stern is in the $45 range. I'd like to know how total cost (shipped) compares.

    Pinballlife was $25 shipping for their $79 2-pack of regular glass.

    #102 7 years ago

    anti glare glass? judging by my recent playing, Im probably better off finding a good optometrist instead.

    -2
    #103 7 years ago
    Quoted from dzoomer:

    Holy pessimist. I'll be positive . PDI looks notably better than Invisiglass to me (JJP). I want to know whether the Stern option looks as good as Invisiglass, or as good as PDI. That already is three possible outcomes. (is four possible? lol)

    If the glass worked as it was designed and intended, I wouldnt' have a problem with it. Unfortunately it does not. Backglass and DMD glare is still there. In fact. I had someone over today. Told him I had invisiglass in one of my games. He couldn't even tell which one had it. Even said, there is no way he would have known any of my games had it if I didn't point it out. That's what a waste of money it is.

    17
    #104 7 years ago

    For those who might be interested i've just made a comparison video between standard glass and the Roman glass.
    -----------------

    #105 7 years ago

    thanks for the video. Love the dramatic music associated with 1st world problems of glass not being clear enough. Seriously though that was a great way to show the diff. Roman glass = PDI?

    #106 7 years ago

    Thx and yes..Roman for the win over standard. Next up...stern glass v/s roman.
    A vid showing backglass and dmd glare would be cool also . Thanks for video

    #107 7 years ago

    Is Roman the trade name for the PDI glass?

    #108 7 years ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    Is Roman the trade name for the PDI glass?

    Joey at PDI is the USA distributor for Roman's glass from Germany.

    #109 7 years ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    Is Roman the trade name for the PDI glass?

    Roman is his first name ,

    #110 7 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    If the glass worked as it was designed and intended, I wouldnt' have a problem with it. Unfortunately it does not. Backglass and DMD glare is still there. In fact. I had someone over today. Told him I had invisiglass in one of my games. He couldn't even tell which one had it. Even said, there is no way he would have known any of my games had it if I didn't point it out. That's what a waste of money it is.

    In some spots, it's totally worth it. In others, not worth it at all. If there is no stray light in your game room, it doesn't have anything to do. However if there is a window, and a white ceiling, it really cuts down the extra glare and is very noticeable compared to games without it.

    #111 7 years ago

    Dave is right and the reason are opto-physical laws.

    As soon as Stern`s anti reflective glass will be available in Germany we will test this sheet as well in the lab.
    The same way we did with JJP`s Invisiglass and also regular glass vs Optiwhite or Starfire glass.

    Namsan Merci pour le video ... tres bonne travail

    pbglass (resized).jpgpbglass (resized).jpg

    #112 7 years ago
    Quoted from DaveH:

    In some spots, it's totally worth it. In others, not worth it at all. If there is no stray light in your game room, it doesn't have anything to do. However if there is a window, and a white ceiling, it really cuts down the extra glare and is very noticeable compared to games without it.

    I like the pdi even in my dark basement. You really feel like you can reach into the playfield and grab the ball it's so clear. In fact, I've nearly jammed my fingers twice (and my wife once) doing just that.

    #113 7 years ago
    Quoted from DaveH:

    In some spots, it's totally worth it. In others, not worth it at all. If there is no stray light in your game room, it doesn't have anything to do. However if there is a window, and a white ceiling, it really cuts down the extra glare and is very noticeable compared to games without it.

    that's true, but when it was designed, it was designed to eliminate display and backglass glare. Thats what it's sole purpose was suppose to do. That's what it was advertised as doing. It failed on all those accounts, with a high price tag.

    20
    #114 7 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    that's true, but when it was designed, it was designed to eliminate display and backglass glare. Thats what it's sole purpose was suppose to do. That's what it was advertised as doing. It failed on all those accounts, with a high price tag.

    You say this every single time the subject is brought up, and you are still dead wrong. Nobody ever claimed that the product eliminates ALL reflections or glare. It does however, greatly reduce them. This is a fact. I've had games that were almost unplayable because of backglass and other reflections, and PDI glass yielded a tremendous improvement.

    #115 7 years ago

    I just installed my PDI glass on my MMr today. I will say i'm impressed, i waited a long time to buy it as i was on the fence. It does literally look like there is no glass on the machine and as a result, the colors are much much brighter and sharper. The reflections i see now are actually coming from the playfield and not the glass. If i walk over to one of my other machines then it's instantly noticeable. I honestly think it looks the best with the can lights on overhead, i've never been able to play a game with the lights on overhead.

    Is it perfect? No, does it eliminate every single reflection? No, but the only way to do that is to not have glass.

    I ordered 2 sheets, so i just need to decide which game gets the 2nd sheet.

    Just my opinion, but i'm happy with the glass and what it did to the game.

    #116 7 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    You say this every single time the subject is brought up, and you are still dead wrong. Nobody ever claimed that the product eliminates ALL reflections or glare. It does however, greatly reduce them. This is a fact. I've had games that were almost unplayable because of backglass and other reflections, and PDI glass yielded a tremendous improvement.

    bullshit. Remember when PDI was experimenting with it and developing it? on RGP? This is exactly the way it was advertised. "will Eliminate backglass and display glare". That was the sole purpose of it's development. Then after it didn't work as they intended, they started changing and downplaying it's ability to do it's job, yet keep the insane price.

    #117 7 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    bullshit. Remember when PDI was experimenting with it and developing it? on RGP? This is exactly the way it was advertised. "will Eliminate backglass and display glare". That was the sole purpose of it's development. Then after it didn't work as they intended, they started changing and downplaying it's ability to do it's job, yet keep the insane price.

    I haven't seen it advertised that way, but maybe it was originally. Regarding pricing, it's a niche market and there isn't much for competition, so it's not that surprising. I've custom ordered glass from a local shop and it was about $70/sheet. I think $200 would be a sweet spot for the pricing and fair. $300 is what it is and there aren't any options at the moment.

    We'll see what the feedback is on the Stern stuff, if it's good and $60 cheaper, then that's good for the market and the community.

    #118 7 years ago
    Quoted from chrisnack:

    I haven't seen it advertised that way, but maybe it was originally. Regarding pricing, it's a niche market and there isn't much for competition, so it's not that surprising. I've custom ordered glass from a local shop and it was about $70/sheet. I think $200 would be a sweet spot for the pricing and fair. $300 is what it is and there aren't any options at the moment.
    We'll see what the feedback is on the Stern stuff, if it's good and $60 cheaper, then that's good for the market and the community.

    why don't you buy your glass from Terry? he's $25-30 a sheet.

    #119 7 years ago
    Quoted from MagicJumpi:

    Dave is right and the reason are opto-physical laws.
    As soon as Stern`s anti reflective glass will be available in Germany we will test this sheet as well in the lab.
    The same way we did with JJP`s Invisiglass and also regular glass vs Optiwhite or Starfire glass.
    Namsan Merci pour le video ... tres bonne travail

    So if I am reading this chart correctly PDI is still the best choice. Curious to see how Sterns glass stacks up. The new alien pin offers a anti glare glass as well could you do tests on that too.

    Just a side note you can just wear a good pair of sunglasses eliminates glare while playing and makes the colors on the playfeild really pop. I have one sheet of PDI glass and I like the way the playfeild looks through these lenses just has much.

    http://ikonlenses.com

    #120 7 years ago

    I have PDI glass in all of my machines. To eliminate the DMD glare, I use the Comet Pinball DMD eliminator. I put it on the inside plastic. No one even knows that it's there.

    My machines look great with this combination.

    #121 7 years ago

    On the bright side, shipping is only $21.21 for 1 sheet.
    Hope it works

    Product Qty Unit Price Ext Price
    SP45 High Definition Anti-Reflection Pinball Glass
    1 $239.99 $239.99

    Subtotal: $239.99
    Shipping & Handling: $21.21 +
    Tax: $0.00 +
    Order Total: $261.20 =

    #122 7 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    You say this every single time the subject is brought up

    You should see his rants on the Sildenafil enthusiast forums.

    And pray you're not in earshot when he's packing a box with bubble wrap.

    #123 7 years ago

    was streaming last night on my ToM with PDI glass you can see how good it is when I slide the glass off to recover a stuck ball!

    https://www.youtube.com/edit?video_id=dK--hL-NXFY

    #124 7 years ago

    I also thought the point of the glass was to eliminate or reduce DMD and backbox glare.

    #125 7 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    bullshit. Remember when PDI was experimenting with it and developing it? on RGP? This is exactly the way it was advertised. "will Eliminate backglass and display glare". That was the sole purpose of it's development. Then after it didn't work as they intended, they started changing and downplaying it's ability to do it's job, yet keep the insane price.

    PDI wasn´t experimenting, we did and they were offering the product in the US. Period.

    When I advertised the product the first time (July 2008) in Germany (before you could find any posting about it on RGP) then I`ve provided the following pics
    http://www.flippermarkt.de/community/forum/showthread.php?t=62539
    Here you (especially Neo) can see that there are still some DMD reflections but they`re greatly reduced.
    The thread title is: "I guarantee you an absolute new pinball quality". Did I lie ?

    Quoted from Pinballpal:

    So if I am reading this chart correctly PDI is still the best choice. Curious to see how Sterns glass stacks up. The new alien pin offers a anti glare glass as well could you do tests on that too.

    To understand and read the chart correctly you need to know how the human eye reacts to certain wavelengths.
    The chart below helps...

    Between 550 and 560 nanometres our eyes have the highest sensitivity. Invisiglass has >2% reflection and Roman/PDI has <0.5%. That been said you take a look at the chart above and you can see that the interesting wavespectrum is between 470nm and 670nm.

    It would be highly appreciated if Stern or JJP would post such information instead of using misleading marketing techniques.

    Btw. Heighway Pinball is using their own anti reflective glass with their games.

    Eyesensitivity.svg (resized).pngEyesensitivity.svg (resized).png

    #126 7 years ago

    I have a friend that works at Stern and he generously offered to bring a sheet of glass (that I purchased...no freebies!) over next week. I'll report back (with pics) as soon as he brings it over.

    #127 7 years ago

    I'm sure Stern will be including this new glass on all of their LE's going forward?

    #128 7 years ago

    Well...at least we'll be able to clearly see Gary cutting corners now.

    #129 7 years ago

    As an professional engineer, I like graphs, properly interpreted data, and charts for evaluation.
    I look forward to the results of PDI testing the Stern glass, and do a proper scientific evaluation, side by side with JJP, PDI, and whatever Heighway is presenting.
    It is not like others do not have both types already available.

    I just don't feel like spending another $1100+ on four sheets of glass for games, let own $22K for all my games.
    It adds up really fast.
    Especially since I can get standard tempered glass local at far less than $40 a sheet.
    I did buy one sheet of JJP glass, for kicks, and it was a nice change, but not really critical for games that are not using "eye burning LEDs" or some type glare directed downward lighting in a game room.
    Never really thought about it again.

    I do have access to a optical laboratory, but not exclusively for a hobby, as I am not even sure how I could get that to pass the laugh check, if I asked to borrow time, and I prefer not make up an excuse.

    A comparison chart has to be generated, and it will seen how close the criteria matches the reported specifications.
    Optical clarity is subjective, as is light transmission, unless tested.
    Photos are not good sources of indication of specifications, but easier for layman reviews.
    At this point, we really need this assessment based on the amounts of money people spend without asking many questions to manufacturers.

    Until then, everything regarding this glass simply remains unconfirmed as marketing hype, and the ability to dupe new buyers.

    As far as Stern is concerned, I would suspect this is classified as an "aftermarket mod" and a viable source of continued income, not a standard feature inclusion, in a pinball world of "less game for more cost".

    In some ways, I am really starting to believe if Stern stated the sky is green rather the blue, people would just accept it as truth.

    #130 7 years ago

    I do not care about the science behind it. I think Invisiglass is a good product and works but is expensive. Never seen PDI, hear it's great, but believe it is either at the price or more than Invisiglass. If Stern can put out a glass that is cheaper and comes close aI might buy a sheet and try it out.

    #131 7 years ago
    Quoted from MagicJumpi:

    PDI wasn´t experimenting, we did and they were offering the product in the US. Period.
    When I advertised the product the first time (July 2008) in Germany (before you could find any posting about it on RGP) then I`ve provided the following pics
    http://www.flippermarkt.de/community/forum/showthread.php?t=62539
    Here you (especially Neo) can see that there are still some DMD reflections but they`re greatly reduced.
    The thread title is: "I guarantee you an absolute new pinball quality". Did I lie ?

    To understand and read the chart correctly you need to know how the human eye reacts to certain wavelengths.
    The chart below helps...
    Between 550 and 560 nanometres our eyes have the highest sensitivity. Invisiglass has >2% reflection and Roman/PDI has <0.5%. That been said you take a look at the chart above and you can see that the interesting wavespectrum is between 470nm and 670nm.
    It would be highly appreciated if Stern or JJP would post such information instead of using misleading marketing techniques.
    Btw. Heighway Pinball is using their own anti reflective glass with their games.

    i'm talking about the development process when you guys were working on it. There was lots of talk about the expectations on how well it was going to perform and performance/price comparisons. Does it reduce the glare sure. but about 20% for backbox/display. Probably 75% for area room lighting. PDI is a little better than JJP's. Does it warrant a 1000% price point over standard glass. meh.

    #132 7 years ago
    Quoted from eggbert52:

    Well...at least we'll be able to clearly see Gary cutting corners now.

    I see what you did there

    #133 7 years ago

    ok

    #134 7 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    I'm sure Stern will be including this new glass on all of their LE's going forward?

    976809c111e493db7698d7a4c7d17f782297ecb974d6990248c91dc9c3562b40 (resized).jpg976809c111e493db7698d7a4c7d17f782297ecb974d6990248c91dc9c3562b40 (resized).jpg

    #135 7 years ago

    I believe PDI will be offered as an option for Alien?. That's the way my LE will come, if so. PDI is the best out there now, period. Very noticable over standard glass, and better the invisiglass. Makes sense for Stern to offer theirs if the price is right, as they could ship w the machine, but will certainly need to see a comparison.

    #136 7 years ago
    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    I believe PDI will be offered as an option for Alien?.

    Not according to Roman, ten posts above your post.

    #137 7 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    You say this every single time the subject is brought up, and you are still dead wrong. Nobody ever claimed that the product eliminates ALL reflections or glare. It does however, greatly reduce them. This is a fact. I've had games that were almost unplayable because of backglass and other reflections, and PDI glass yielded a tremendous improvement.

    I don't know - I was the guy, and I will back up what he said. I had mentioned that it was interesting that Stern had just announced the Invisi-glass type stuff, and Neo said he didn't think it was worth it. I asked if he had ever seen it in real life, and he said that he had a sheet on a game right there - and he did, two games away from the one we were playing.

    If I would have been asked to make a guess before he pointed it out to me, I would have said the game beside it.

    For me at least, it made me decide that the upgrade isn't for me in the future. After playing on the game with it a little bit, I could notice a reduction in the amount of glare from the playfield, but the actual reduction was rather minimal. I think the best way to solve for high amounts of reflections is with a bent piece of plastic for your DMD on the game.

    Having said that, I'll gladly look at either PDI or the new Stern glass when I get a chance, but it fell very far down my "interested in" list...

    -1
    #138 7 years ago
    Quoted from goatdan:

    I don't know - I was the guy, and I will back up what he said. I had mentioned that it was interesting that Stern had just announced the Invisi-glass type stuff, and Neo said he didn't think it was worth it. I asked if he had ever seen it in real life, and he said that he had a sheet on a game right there - and he did, two games away from the one we were playing.
    If I would have been asked to make a guess before he pointed it out to me, I would have said the game beside it.
    For me at least, it made me decide that the upgrade isn't for me in the future. After playing on the game with it a little bit, I could notice a reduction in the amount of glare from the playfield, but the actual reduction was rather minimal. I think the best way to solve for high amounts of reflections is with a bent piece of plastic for your DMD on the game.
    Having said that, I'll gladly look at either PDI or the new Stern glass when I get a chance, but it fell very far down my "interested in" list...

    and if it was say..double of normal glass. $60 a sheet or so. Sure. slight improvement over standard glass would be worth the double price. or close to it. But the huge cost over standard glass you have to start to weigh the cost over how much of an improvement it really is. People act like it's gods gift to glass, and that is just straight up misleading. in a brightly lit room or if it the machine was sitting in a supermarket or target, sure it's going to look impressive. But when you start looking at the actual things you need it for, the difference is slight.

    #139 7 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    in a brightly lit room or if it the machine was sitting in a supermarket or target, sure it's going to look impressive.

    Man I wish Target had pins to play

    #140 7 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    I do not care about the science behind it. I think Invisiglass is a good product and works but is expensive. Never seen PDI, hear it's great, but believe it is either at the price or more than Invisiglass.

    Invisiglass compared with Roman aka PDI glass.

    #141 7 years ago

    Sorry earlier link was wrong!

    #142 7 years ago

    I like looking at the glass comparison pictures on my iPad. Because my iPad glass has major glare, everything I look at has glare. It is like watching a Tv comparison commercial between a 1080 and 4000 HD TV on your 780 resolution tv. You really can't see any difference.

    But Seriuosly, I'm hoping Stern's new pricing starts to bring down the price point. Prices go down, volume goes up, prices come down some more.

    #143 7 years ago
    Quoted from Razorbak86:

    Invisiglass compared with Roman aka PDI glass.
    » YouTube video

    I just watched that video last night and I could see why Neo would think his invisaglass isn't that great. If and when I make the switch I'm going PDI or Sterns if it's equal.

    #144 7 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    People act like it's gods gift to glass, and that is just straight up misleading.

    In my opinion, PDI glass IS Gods gift to glass. Its absolutely incredible. My two "must have" mods for pinball are PDI glass and a Colour DMD. After that, maybe a shaker motor depending on the game.
    My buddy just bought a bunch of PDI glass for his collection and it's more effective (less glare) on some games vs others. Might be the lighting inside the game, or the location of his overhead lights and whether they are directly over the pins, I dunno.
    Either way, in my place the glass does look nearly invisible and it's worth every penny. Too bad you're not loving yours.

    #145 7 years ago

    Don't forget that coatings for telescope optics have a 10-12% rejection rate, so why would we assume that every pinball glass comes out of the deposition chamber perfect?

    We need to know at what angle the light is being reflected (Angle of Incidence) and what wavelengths of light are being reflected.

    There are coatings especially made for high angle anti-reflection.

    18
    #146 7 years ago
    Quoted from Chambahz:

    In my opinion, PDI glass IS Gods gift to glass. Its absolutely incredible. My two "must have" mods for pinball are PDI glass and a Colour DMD. After that, maybe a shaker motor depending on the game.
    My buddy just bought a bunch of PDI glass for his collection and it's more effective (less glare) on some games vs others. Might be the lighting inside the game, or the location of his overhead lights and whether they are directly over the pins, I dunno.
    Either way, in my place the glass does look nearly invisible and it's worth every penny. Too bad you're not loving yours.

    The effect is most definitely dependent on the specific game and the location of the game. There is nobody (Neo included) that would come over to my house and see my WPT with both regular glass and then PDI glass and think it didn't make an astonishing improvement. When people claim that they have seen instances where it barely made a difference, I take them at their word. They were obviously viewing the glass under a scenario where it didn't yield as impressive results. Fair enough, but it seems silly to constantly argue against all the people who think the glass is awesome. It's not like we're making it up. I benefit in no way by touting PDI glass, and I certainly wouldn't have bought 12 sheets of it if I didn't think it made a difference.

    So if we all agree that the glass does indeed make a difference, even if you are only willing to concede that the difference is slight, then why bother arguing about the cost. Yes, it's expensive, but so are a lot of other things in this hobby. We're talking about a hobby where people will pay $500 for a topper or $400 for a ColorDMD, and these are mods that don't even affect the gameplay. At least PDI glass directly affects the way in which your eyes perceive the playfield. I'd say that's pretty darn important. Sure, it's expensive, but a lot of people think it's worth it, and that's all that really matters. I would personally never spend $500 for a topper, but I don't begrudge those that do. If it makes them happy, and they can afford it, then I say go for it.

    #147 7 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    So if we all agree that the glass does indeed make a difference, even if you are only willing to concede that the difference is slight, then why bother arguing about the cost. Yes, it's expensive, but so are a lot of other things in this hobby. We're talking about a hobby where people will pay $500 for a topper or $400 for a ColorDMD, and these are mods that don't even affect the gameplay. At least PDI glass directly affects the way in which your eyes perceive the playfield. I'd say that's pretty darn important. Sure, it's expensive, but a lot of people think it's worth it, and that's all that really matters. I would personally never spend $500 for a topper, but I don't begrudge those that do. If it makes them happy, and they can afford it, then I say go for it.

    Couldn't agree more. People complain about the price of a ColorDMD upgrade or the glass, but then spend more on other items.

    Not to mention, you spend $7k+ on a new machine, then are going to gripe about $300 for glass?

    #148 7 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    The effect is most definitely dependent on the specific game and the location of the game. There is nobody (Neo included) that would come over to my house and see my WPT with both regular glass and then PDI glass and think it didn't make an astonishing improvement. When people claim that they have seen instances where it barely made a difference, I take them at their word. They were obviously viewing the glass under a scenario where it didn't yield as impressive results. Fair enough, but it seems silly to constantly argue against all the people who think the glass is awesome. It's not like we're making it up. I benefit in no way by touting PDI glass, and I certainly wouldn't have bought 12 sheets of it if I didn't think it made a difference.
    So if we all agree that the glass does indeed make a difference, even if you are only willing to concede that the difference is slight, then why bother arguing about the cost. Yes, it's expensive, but so are a lot of other things in this hobby. We're talking about a hobby where people will pay $500 for a topper or $400 for a ColorDMD, and these are mods that don't even affect the gameplay. At least PDI glass directly affects the way in which your eyes perceive the playfield. I'd say that's pretty darn important. Sure, it's expensive, but a lot of people think it's worth it, and that's all that really matters. I would personally never spend $500 for a topper, but I don't begrudge those that do. If it makes them happy, and they can afford it, then I say go for it.

    I agree with this. In this particular instance I don't need a spec sheet to tell me if PDI, Invisaglass, or Anti-Glare HD is worth the purchase. All I need is my personal eye test to make that decision. I'll know pretty quickly either way about the Stern glass once I get it installed.

    #149 7 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    The effect is most definitely dependent on the specific game and the location of the game. There is nobody (Neo included) that would come over to my house and see my WPT with both regular glass and then PDI glass and think it didn't make an astonishing improvement. When people claim that they have seen instances where it barely made a difference, I take them at their word. They were obviously viewing the glass under a scenario where it didn't yield as impressive results. Fair enough, but it seems silly to constantly argue against all the people who think the glass is awesome. It's not like we're making it up. I benefit in no way by touting PDI glass, and I certainly wouldn't have bought 12 sheets of it if I didn't think it made a difference.
    So if we all agree that the glass does indeed make a difference, even if you are only willing to concede that the difference is slight, then why bother arguing about the cost. Yes, it's expensive, but so are a lot of other things in this hobby. We're talking about a hobby where people will pay $500 for a topper or $400 for a ColorDMD, and these are mods that don't even affect the gameplay. At least PDI glass directly affects the way in which your eyes perceive the playfield. I'd say that's pretty darn important. Sure, it's expensive, but a lot of people think it's worth it, and that's all that really matters. I would personally never spend $500 for a topper, but I don't begrudge those that do. If it makes them happy, and they can afford it, then I say go for it.

    Did you get all 12 shipped at once? And if so do you remember the shipping cost?

    #150 7 years ago
    Quoted from phillymadison:

    Did you get all 12 shipped at once? And if so do you remember the shipping cost?

    No. I accumulated them over time. About half are PDI and the other half are Invisiglass. I bought some new, and others used from friends.

    There are 835 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 17.

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