(Topic ID: 199423)

Stern of the Union Address

By pinghetto

6 years ago


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There are 1,619 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 33.
#101 6 years ago
Quoted from Sethman:

Just for continuity sake: each house's 1st shot needs to play an audio line of dialogue for the character displayed. A signature quote from that chacarcter like Tyrion's line for House Martell.
Having all the other house's show a video cut scene and be completely silent is beyond disappointing. It's such a minor addition but would bring all those initial shots in line with each other.

Couldn't agree more. Its so nice to hear Tyrion's and Arya's voice in their modes. And then you hear nothing in other modes. It would add 10 fold to the game immersion.

Winter has Come needs some sound fx when you get super jackpots. Blackwater MB SJP is well done with Hound's callouts. Battle for the Wall has the great sound fx when they drop the scythe. And nothing in WHC other than blowing snow and louder blowing of snow.

Some callouts for sure could be added to Battle for the Wall in the mode (other than the SJP sound).

#102 6 years ago
Quoted from Sethman:

Just for continuity sake: each house's 1st shot needs to play an audio line of dialogue for the character displayed. A signature quote from that chacarcter like Tyrion's line for House Martell.
Having all the other house's show a video cut scene and be completely silent is beyond disappointing. It's such a minor addition but would bring all those initial shots in line with each other.

Yep, just small minor additions would make a world of difference. The code is already solid, but it could be up there with Met and TWD with just minor tweaks.

#103 6 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I expected (EDIT: Hoped) a few things to be worked out here and there or "polished" as people like to say; but I never once thought more material would be added & certain(t)ly not new clips form later seasons.
The way house Martel ends is proof enough it's just the flavor of the show not the details.

Though it would be hilarious if the GOT update actually cut out modes to keep the game current with the show. By the end of next season you'd be down to what, Targaryen and (probably still) Stark?

#104 6 years ago

I would be a buyer if they vault or re-release with LCD and footage from all seasons and new code once the series has wrapped up.

Licensing will be cheaper once it has concluded (especially if the various spinoffs crash (which I am hoping will not be the case, but 3-4 spinoffs seems a bit much)).

#105 6 years ago
Quoted from c508:

I would be a buyer if they vault or re-release with LCD and footage from all seasons and new code once the series has wrapped up.
Licensing will be cheaper once it has concluded (especially if the various spinoffs crash (which I am hoping will not be the case, but 3-4 spinoffs seems a bit much)).

Ain't no river long enough that it don't contain a bend ... but I'm thinking your money will remain safely in your wallet, hard to imagine them revamping GOT like that for a vault edition.

#106 6 years ago

This has come up before with Gary for movie series that add new installments since the pinball was released, but he has said it would be too costly to do an upgrade of new content.

I'm fine with GOT as-is, if it gets one last pass by Dwight.

#107 6 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

From what the programmers say around here, adding more people won't help anything. Apprently code is like a fine wine or some shit like hat.

Like this one?

Poophat (resized).JPGPoophat (resized).JPG

#108 6 years ago

As long as we are gazing into the possible future, a finalized GB code might greenlight a Color DMD project. GB could use one of those.

#109 6 years ago
Quoted from txstargazer3:

As long as we are gazing into the possible future, a finalized GB code might greenlight a Color DMD project. GB could use one of those.

Like I need another reason to spend $400.....
But I do.

#110 6 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

Like I need another reason to spend $400.....
But I do.

I'd be in in a heartbeat!

#111 6 years ago
Quoted from txstargazer3:

As long as we are gazing into the possible future, a finalized GB code might greenlight a Color DMD project. GB could use one of those.

They need to make it work in color on spike, first. All they have running spike so far is sigma displays.

#112 6 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

They need to make it work in color on spike, first. All they have running spike so far is sigma displays.

I have a feeling that they are going to have plenty of time to figure out a Spike interface before SW is finalized and the GB code is completed.

#113 6 years ago

Let's get the playfield quality perfect too stern. They really need to step everything up.

#114 6 years ago

Psst...Psst... Excuse me...
WHERE IS THE R2D2 TOPPER !!!!

Come on guys get with it. So much money left on the table in accessories. Art blades shooter rod.. rails for pros and premiums.
And the topper for f*** sakes.

Perhaps even a can of black paint to change the white t-molding

14
#115 6 years ago

Stern better work on their customer relations and their quality both because JJP has just took the spotlight away from them totally with the new POTC game. If the Pirates game was the same price as say a Stern Premium right now, Stern would be screwed! I’m not bashing on Stern either because I love their games but holy sh*t, JJP just knocked it out of the effing park big time!

#116 6 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Stern better work on their customer relations and their quality both because JJP has just took the spotlight away from them totally with the new POTC game. If the Pirates game was the same price as say a Stern Premium right now, Stern would be screwed! I’m not bashing on Stern either because I love their games but holy sh*t, JJP just knocked it out of the effing park big time!

What's MSRP on the new Pirates game? Still ~$1,250 > than a Stern Premium after shipping, or are they closing that gap? (If they just hold steady, Stern will probably catch up with them eventually).

EDIT: Just went and did my own homework. $8500 SE, $9500 LE, $12,500 CE. So the Pirates SE is ~$1700 > than a SW Premium after shipping. And it looks pretty sweet! Looking forward to playing one next spring.

#117 6 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

What's MSRP on the new Pirates game? Still ~$1,250 > than a Stern Premium after shipping, or are they closing that gap? (If they just hold steady, Stern will probably catch up with them eventually).

I believe 8500, so they did bump their price a bit but OMG that game is unbelievably loaded.

#118 6 years ago
Quoted from merccat:

I believe 8500, so they did bump their price a bit but OMG that game is unbelievably loaded.

I'm just looking at some of the pics and it does indeed look cool! I was just going to be very surprised if JJP was cutting prices to compete with Stern Premium. Sadly, still a 20%-25% price difference.

#119 6 years ago

You'll never see a JJP game lower in price. The price will stay the same or increase with each title because they are actually putting the money into BOM. PIrates looks loaded and for that you pay.

Quoted from fosaisu:

I'm just looking at some of the pics and it does indeed look cool! I was just going to be very surprised if JJP was cutting prices to compete with Stern Premium. Sadly, still a 20%-25% price difference.

#120 6 years ago

I thought Stern would at least release a BM66 code update to their customers and a SW topper - but got neither. I wonder why Stern even bothered to go to Expo.

#121 6 years ago
Quoted from twenty84:

I thought Stern would at least release a BM66 code update to their customers and a SW topper - but got neither. I wonder why Stern even bothered to go to Expo.

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#122 6 years ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

You'll never see a JJP game lower in price. The price will stay the same or increase with each title because they are actually putting the money into BOM. PIrates looks loaded and for that you pay.

The way their investors were talking about expanding the audience, finding new markets, getting way more out on location, and getting the business to a state where it will run for generations, I don't know about that.

The only way to assure the above is to sell way more. They can't do that at these ticket prices.

#123 6 years ago

Is there a thread on what Stern has announced at expo? A transcript of the panel?

#124 6 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Is there a thread on what Stern has announced at expo? A transcript of the panel?

Talking about 'Stern Army'.

Lies about code (Gomez was stutterring and showing 'tells' when making excuses about it).

A big new topper for locations / wall mount eye catcher for retail operations. A badly rendered slide. Nothing physical.

That was it.

11
#125 6 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Is there a thread on what Stern has announced at expo? A transcript of the panel?

Yeah I have it:

Stern: "We don't like wide bodies"

2hrs later

JJP reveals an absolutely amazing widebody.

And the Stern being out of touch with the rest of the pinball world continues...back to the clipart board for them I guess.

#126 6 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

The way their investors were talking about expanding the audience, finding new markets, getting way more out on location, and getting the business to a state where it will run for generations, I don't know about that.
The only way to assure the above is to sell way more. They can't do that at these ticket prices.

For the price you get what is essentially an LE from Stern though (or better). I had to put thousands extra into my Metallica to make it not look like a garbage pile next to my WoZ. For almost any Stern game I find the Pinball Refinery base level upgrade package is what SHOULD have come out of Stern's factory.

I gotta say you get what you pay for.

Edit: Though Aerosmith came out pretty nice right from the floor. Gotta give credit there.

#127 6 years ago
Quoted from GotAQuestion:

Edit: Though Aerosmith came out pretty nice right from the floor. Gotta give credit there.

True that! They did a terrific job with AS. Stern doesn’t have to be JJP, there is room for fun games that look good at a relatively reasonable price.

#128 6 years ago
Quoted from Paul_from_Gilroy:

I wonder if Stern is under-spending on programmers and engineers, and spending way too much on licenses where they end-up beholden to inflexible, armchair designer license holders.

I think they are spending too much money on Vodka Tonics for their Executives.

10
#129 6 years ago
Quoted from merccat:

True that! They did a terrific job with AS. Stern doesn’t have to be JJP, there is room for fun games that look good at a relatively reasonable price.

I still don't think Stern's pricing is reasonable. The Pro is now a cookie cutter with a toy on a stick for $5400. Yes JJPs new game is $3K more but even if you compare Stern latest LE with a JJP SE, it's laughable at best.

#130 6 years ago
Quoted from MinusWorlds:

Yeah I have it:
Stern: "We don't like wide bodies"
2hrs later
JJP reveals an absolutely amazing widebody.
And the Stern being out of touch with the rest of the pinball world continues...back to the clipart board for them I guess.

Maybe they can get away with not updating code or quality on a pro pin. By comparison, its a great value on certain pins.

But when you peddle LE's, especially 30th anniversary $$ grabs, you better deliver BIG TIME on both quality and code.

I don't think it has sunk in yet with Stern. I suspect after POTC it will.

I'm not saying they can't come back because apparently GOTG is "packed" and "different" but i just spent my GOTG $$ on a POTC CE.

A poke in the eye not getting us the BM66 code while its on the machines at Expo. Wtf

#131 6 years ago
Quoted from merccat:

Stern doesn’t have to be JJP, there is room for fun games that look good at a relatively reasonable price.

That's the problem. They aren't relatively reasonably priced. A Stern Premium next to a JJP SE still causes glaring issues on "value" IMO. Yes the JJP costs more, but you can literally see what you are getting. Build quality, innovation, molded toys, multiple internactive toys, etc. And Stern's cost per unit is absolutely, without question much less than JJP's.

That's a problem.

#132 6 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I'm not saying they can't come back because apparently GOTG is "packed" and "different" but i just spent my GOTG $$ on a POTC CE

BINGO. I just spent my SW on POTC as well.

#133 6 years ago

Totally agree with MinusWorlds. If Stern wants to play in the high-end pool they need to up their game for the prices they are now charging. When Premiums are at $6500 shipped (2k less than the PotC), I don't expect them to be at the same level. As prices continue to increase I get a lot less understanding.

Speaking of price increases, is it in a pinball manufacturing manual somewhere that with every release you must increase your prices by $500.00? It's the one thing Stern and JJP seem to agree on.

#134 6 years ago
Quoted from GotAQuestion:

For the price you get what is essentially an LE from Stern though (or better). I had to put thousands extra into my Metallica to make it not look like a garbage pile next to my WoZ. For almost any Stern game I find the Pinball Refinery base level upgrade package is what SHOULD have come out of Stern's factory.
I gotta say you get what you pay for.
Edit: Though Aerosmith came out pretty nice right from the floor. Gotta give credit there.

The problem is not poor value relative to Stern. The problem is that it is far too expensive to sell numbers of units to achieve the objectives they speak of, and really widen the audience.

Sales can continue to grow a little for pinball, but it will be by pursuing a smaller number of price averse individuals. It's becoming more rareified and exclusive, not less. That was the opposite of what they said they wanted to achieve.

The only way to get costs and therefore prices down is to seriously expand production, and thereby hugely dilute fixed costs, and use greater buying power to reduce BOMs.

That can't be expected to happen quickly, but it's the only way of reaching their stated objectives.

Also, remember, at these kind of prices, economic shocks are going to be grossly more dangerous. People are already forgetting, the last financial crisis was less than 10 years ago. Stern were days from going under near the beginning of it, and had already begun to pack up when the white knights rode in.

#135 6 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Maybe they can get away with not updating code or quality on a pro pin. By comparison, its a great value on certain pins.
But when you peddle LE's, especially 30th anniversary $$ grabs, you better deliver BIG TIME on both quality and code.
I don't think it has sunk in yet with Stern. I suspect after POTC it will.
I'm not saying they can't come back because apparently GOTG is "packed" and "different" but i just spent my GOTG $$ on a POTC CE.
A poke in the eye not getting us the BM66 code while its on the machines at Expo. Wtf

And yet we all want Stern to succeed as they make great games. They just aren't helping themselves right now.

I happen to love my KISS pro - such a fun game. But, I am left hoping it gets the final update it deserves, rather than a quick bug fix.

I remain interested in GOTG and Iron Maiden but more than likely to sit them out and wait for finished code BEFORE buying

#136 6 years ago
Quoted from MinusWorlds:

That's the problem. They aren't relatively reasonably priced. A Stern Premium next to a JJP SE still causes glaring issues on "value" IMO. Yes the JJP costs more, but you can literally see what you are getting. Build quality, innovation, molded toys, multiple internactive toys, etc. And Stern's cost per unit is absolutely, without question much less than JJP's.
That's a problem.

Okay yes I agree on the Premium front. But a pro can be found for 5k or slightly less if you go with one that has a few hundred plays on it. To me that seems to have about $3500 less value than a JJP standard so it’s pretty much on par and in the case of AS its still a fun, bueatiful game.

MSRP to MSRP... I think they are a little nutty.

#137 6 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

The problem is not poor value relative to Stern. The problem is that it is far too expensive to sell numbers of units to achieve the objectives they speak of, and really widen the audience.
Sales can continue to grow a little for pinball, but it will be by pursuing a smaller number of price averse individuals. It's becoming more rareified and exclusive, not less. That was the opposite of what they said they wanted to achieve.
The only way to get costs and therefore prices down is to seriously expand production, and thereby hugely dilute fixed costs, and use greater buying power to reduce BOMs.
That can't be expected to happen quickly, but it's the only way of reaching their stated objectives.
Also, remember, at these kind of prices, economic shocks are going to be grossly more dangerous. People are already forgetting, the last financial crisis was less than 10 years ago. Stern were days from going under near the beginning of it, and had already begun to pack up when the white knights rode in.

Absolutely 100% agree. Stern's cost cutting is a smart move from a business longevity standpoint. If there is a financial downturn, JJP will only be able to sell to the super duper rich (maybe they already are?), while if Stern continues to focus on locations and market to the general public at lower prices of entry, they may be able to survive. JJP does not seem to be doing much to expand the potential market because they're not seen on location as much

#138 6 years ago

Aside from issues of QC, code, or even toys/BOM, one big differentiator between Stern and JJP/other manufacturers continues to be the extremely narrow and restrictive "rules" that confine Stern pinball games. No widebodies,3 pops in a triad, Italian bottom or bust, period. Those three rules are the biggest reason Stern games are so repetitive and samey. It doesn't cost more money to include an interesting inlane configuration or pop bumper placement - look how refreshing those elements are on games like JJPOTC or TNA. Hearing them dismiss widebodies out of hand just underscores this attitude.

#139 6 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Maybe they can get away with not updating code or quality on a pro pin. By comparison, its a great value on certain pins.
But when you peddle LE's, especially 30th anniversary $$ grabs, you better deliver BIG TIME on both quality and code.
I don't think it has sunk in yet with Stern. I suspect after POTC it will.
I'm not saying they can't come back because apparently GOTG is "packed" and "different" but i just spent my GOTG $$ on a POTC CE.
A poke in the eye not getting us the BM66 code while its on the machines at Expo. Wtf

Yup! This is what I like about you. You can be objective and swung to another perspective. You hit the nail on the head with this. Absolutely Stern can come back but they are looking up from the canvas right now. Shake it off Stern and get to work.

IMG_1371 (resized).PNGIMG_1371 (resized).PNG

#140 6 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

The problem is not poor value relative to Stern. The problem is that it is far too expensive to sell numbers of units to achieve the objectives they speak of, and really widen the audience.
Sales can continue to grow a little for pinball, but it will be by pursuing a smaller number of price averse individuals. It's becoming more rareified and exclusive, not less. That was the opposite of what they said they wanted to achieve.
The only way to get costs and therefore prices down is to seriously expand production, and thereby hugely dilute fixed costs, and use greater buying power to reduce BOMs.
That can't be expected to happen quickly, but it's the only way of reaching their stated objectives.
Also, remember, at these kind of prices, economic shocks are going to be grossly more dangerous. People are already forgetting, the last financial crisis was less than 10 years ago. Stern were days from going under near the beginning of it, and had already begun to pack up when the white knights rode in.

If I heard gs correctly at expo yesterday, they are seeing 40% growth y/y. If you can’t get costs down with that kind of growth I’m not sure they ever will. On production, he said they are making three games a year with three models plus potentially a vault and/or studio game (pbr, wnbjm). Sounded like they were running flat out. Both stern and JJP should have costs under control, they are likely just testing the market on how far they can go on pricing. Didn’t sound like they (or JJP) are hitting the boundary yet. DI has been a big hit as has sw I think.

Cgc has a nice niche here. If they can do remakes in the $6-8k range, they should do well. They also don’t have the design costs to deal with on a remake, helping with costs.

#141 6 years ago
Quoted from westofrome:

Aside from issues of QC, code, or even toys/BOM, one big differentiator between Stern and JJP/other manufacturers continues to be the extremely narrow and restrictive "rules" that confine Stern pinball games. No widebodies,3 pops in a triad, Italian bottom or bust, period. Those three rules are the biggest reason Stern games are so repetitive and samey. It doesn't cost more money to include an interesting inlane configuration or pop bumper placement - look how refreshing those elements are on games like JJPOTC or TNA. Hearing them dismiss widebodies out of hand just underscores this attitude.

Also, it must have two ramps and the right ramp must either be equal with the left, or down further, practically never the other way around.

#142 6 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

If I heard gs correctly at expo yesterday, they are seeing 40% growth y/y. If you can’t get costs down with that kind of growth I’m not sure they ever will. On production, he said they are making three games a year with three models plus potentially a vault and/or studio game (pbr, wnbjm). Sounded like they were running flat out. Both stern and JJP should have costs under control, they are likely just testing the market on how far they can go on pricing. Didn’t sound like they (or JJP) are hitting the boundary yet. DI has been a big hit as has sw I think.
Cgc has a nice niche here. If they can do remakes in the $6-8k range, they should do well. They also don’t have the design costs to deal with on a remake, helping with costs.

If Stern have 40% growth in 2017, on 2016, then BM'66 got all its 2-weekly updates and code was finished and brilliant 6 months ago.

#143 6 years ago
Quoted from westofrome:

Aside from issues of QC, code, or even toys/BOM, one big differentiator between Stern and JJP/other manufacturers continues to be the extremely narrow and restrictive "rules" that confine Stern pinball games. No widebodies,3 pops in a triad, Italian bottom or bust, period. Those three rules are the biggest reason Stern games are so repetitive and samey. It doesn't cost more money to include an interesting inlane configuration or pop bumper placement - look how refreshing those elements are on games like JJPOTC or TNA. Hearing them dismiss widebodies out of hand just underscores this attitude.

what's Italian Bottom? I dont' think I've heard that before. Does it refer to the layout and sling placement?

#144 6 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

what's Italian Bottom? I dont' think I've heard that before. Does it refer to the layout and sling placement?

yeah the standard inlane/outlane, 2 flipper bottom third of a table.

#145 6 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

BINGO. I just spent my SW on POTC as well.

You didn't have any SW monies stop your lying.

#146 6 years ago

Here's your stern of the Union.
Sad stern, sad. You did this to yourself Gary.

Screenshot_20171013-143807 (resized).pngScreenshot_20171013-143807 (resized).png

#147 6 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

You didn't have any SW monies stop your lying.

Trading games for another game is just as good as money...at least in my books. And I forgot the word money in my original statement. Because there is no way in hell I would have funded a SW. I don't see how your point is relevent or how you can just come up with that kind of hypothesis without looking at my bank account. My POTC is booked and will be in my basement in 2018. Sure my collection will drop to 3 but I'm perfectly content with that.

#148 6 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I'm with you 100%. And update a scene or two for a couple houses for the two newer seasons since release, would be awesome for the Stark scene to be battle of the bastards for level two or something like that after you beat the house once.

The second round of Blackwater Multiball could be Battle of the bastards Multiball for example.

#149 6 years ago
Quoted from Metengo:

The second round of Blackwater Multiball could be Battle of the bastards Multiball for example.

Great idea! though, i'd rather see it be implemented as the second round of Wall Multiball as it suits the lore better. And it would be more of another wizard mode (which is a good thing) as getting 2 wall multiballs in one game is rare. Unfortunately, it'll never happen - we cant even get bug fixes to this game.

Bottom line; GOT needs an update. Owners know this, players know this, competition players know this, and more importantly, Dwight knows this. But stern is stern and their code support and commitment to it has not changed in over 5 years. Hope JJP nut punches them with this one cause like someone said in the JJP4 thread; JJP Code @20% = Stern Code @100%. Get your shit together stern; we're tired of being dicked around.

#150 6 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Get your shit together stern; we're tired of being dicked around.

+8,500
(That I'll be spending on a new JJP game instead of buying a new Stern right now)

To me it begins and ends with code and support of their products. They obviously don't give 2 shits anymore about games once they pump them out and have our money. They need an overhaul of both the products they are putting out to up the quality and the support they give them after to assure they complete code and give a polished game to enjoy for years and years. Spooky and JJP seem to get that, time the big dog gets a kick in the nuts to remind them.

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