Similar to buying a new car pre dented for you.

Sorry about the game at least they are not that severe, as defects go.

Hopefully you are happy with the end result.

Have fun and play pinball

My MET PREM has same gnarled pf sides. Bought nib. Obviously an issue from assembly. I'm not sweating it though. Out of sight and not worth a swap or begging for a new pf that I will never swap. But that's just me. Good luck op.

That damage is too excessive for a new item - even though it's just pinball.

I would not be happy with that either. While Stern isn't 'active' on Pinside - they certainly read it. And I don't think I would expect the owner of this new pin to suck it up and deal with it. So bringing it up here is at least an easy way to bring awareness. This sucks - hopefully it is shipping because if it went out the door like that then Stern needs to do a better job on QC.

thanks for adding more bitching and moaning for clarity that you do not like others doing what you did here .. lol Hypocrisy
Also STERN does not offer any comps(toys ,Spark'y Translights,toppers for Compensation Per J Busculari and stern Policy)if so I would still have a KISS pro

I bought several. I am not a commercial operator ,so I call it a Toy for amusement

I expect a new toy to be New and not Broken/chipped and or defective and looked at since it not your usual under 400 dollar toy and it is not unrealistic if your friend bought the very same game and got a mint one with no defects at same said price

It is fun when you have bought and received a New Game that is as flawless as the next guy's

Stern is the greatest Pinball manufacturer and I Love the games and Designers but am let down by the Sometimes good sometimes bad Customer /Vendor Warranty defects help they offer. Sometimes they opt for the more expensive option rather than a Cheap option offered from the buyer/end user.Example.. Send out a sparky or Topper rather than ship games/playfields back and forth /
Any way since the number of defects increase and lack of support for such defects it is better to buy second hand so the buyer can inspect(with microscope LOL if need be) and make a big $$ decision on the spot instead of paying Nib $ ANd hope you get a mint one / Roll the bones
Matter of fact it would be better to buy at the Vendors Shop/business and un box it together before taking it home . if something wrong open Box #2

Play more pinball

I believe that game passes the "fitness for use" standard entirely. Are you seriously complaining about scrapes that can only be seen when the game is open? I can't even see any flaws in the Sparky. Do you think people polish their helmets before execution? (that is a joke)

No. It's a lot like buying a new car with a dent in the body ribbing under the hood that you can't see when the hood is closed.

I agree with a lot of what you said. Here is the issue though: Stern is marketing these games to home-owners now (not just commercial operators). There isn't a distributor out there that would refuse to sell a game to a true novice home-user (who can't turn a screwdriver) right? Nobody asks questions about abilities to repair, troubleshoot or even lift the playfield to explain to potential buyers the complex issues that can manifest when owning a pinball machine - but they are all too willing to take the money (that's cool - they are a business). I refuse to sell my pins to non pinheads and tell them up-front; "as soon as you buy a pin - you have a problem (just like an outboard motor) - I don't want the headaches of dealing with support. Stern markets pins (especially the LE's and Premiums) directly to the home-user and, justifiably so, charges more because they (we) are pickier. Therefore, IMHO, if Stern is marketing their games directly to home-user environment then they are going to have to up their service delivery (and maybe they do that when dealing with these types of issues).

A partial answer is for Stern to set the expectations (perhaps a nice flyer in your NIB Pro that HIGHLIGHTS the fact that the games in all probability have some cosmetic and wiring flaws due to the need for the company to make a profit). When NIB prices have increased by about 40-50% in 5-6 years the buyer is probably right to expect improvements and demand a little more.

Sometimes pinside is funny. Some of us complain when a collector asks almost as much for a new lightly used HUO as a NIB but I can tell you based upon what I have read on pinside and seen in person I would absolutely buy a HUO (when I can see it, smell it, feel it, play it) over a NIB. The known issues have usually been corrected or at least identified and when you pay you know exactly what you are getting (unless you are a newb in which case you won't know until you get it home). Come on guys lighten up a little on the guys that have legitimate complaints - they might not be big issues but they are issues and there are just too many lately. Some of these are minor issues for the pro pinheads but not so much for the less experienced folks who just enjoy playing pinball in the comfort of their own homes.

Unfortunately, these issues have made me decide that I will never ever buy a NIB pin and will continue to buy HUO. Not sure if that takes much money from Stern because at the end of the day someone is probably replacing the pin I bought with a NIB. I always wanted the experience of unboxing my own NIB pin (instead of helping with a friends or reading about it on pinside) but my risk assessment just says bad idea - I don't really like Vegas either.

Keep on flipping!

Warranty still "acts" as if its commercial equipment

Change the language in the warranty.

Word

Will do!!!

I do feel bad for you, because money is tight for a lot of people and purchasing something that costs thousands of dollars is difficult for a majority of people. Besides a house or car, it might be the most expensive purchase for most people. If the machine was going to an operator, the imperfections you have wouldn't have been that big of a deal. Since most pinballs are going into homes, quality control needs to be adjusted to their new market.

I do agree about not buying NIB for simple reasons.

1.99% of all machines depreciate so you are getting a better price on something that is slightly used. The pulling it out of a box excitement doesn't equal the amount of money you save by getting HUO for me. You can literally save hundreds of dollars.

2. There is a possibility you might get to play it first at a convention, on route or at a friends house first. You might like the theme, but not how something plays. Try before you buy. There are a lot of games that I love the theme, but the game play kept it off my must have list.

3. You get to examine it person before you take it home. If there is some sort of defect or blemish, you get to decide if it is something you can live with and not be at the mercy of a warranty. No need to really haggle over a price, I'm sure the seller is aware of the defect and has factored it into the sale.

4. You get to see if the game is fully supported. When I got my XMLE NIB, I was on pins and needles waiting to see which direction the software would go. I was lucky and the software ended up being great, beyond what I hoped. Before that, I do remember the Christmas software update that broke it. I didn't know which direction they were going to end up with it, and for a little while I had a sick feeling in my stomach until the next update came out putting the game of track again.

5. Some machines come with cool mods that you also get at a fraction of the price for by buying used. Colordmd, topper, protectors, etc..., if you don't like them you might be able to negotiate them from the price by having it removed, or sell them after you purchase the machine for an even better bargain.

Probably true.

I won't want to do a playfield swap to fix that issue though. Just a major pain in the ass for something you'll never see unless the game is up for service.

By not holding Stern or JJP to a higher standard, we start making these sorts of things ok. They're not ok. Now, it's not a major flaw that will be noticed over time, but someone in the factory should have pulled the playfield when it was damaged and a new one should have been used for shipping.

If I bought a brand new cell phone and the back casing was gouged, I would hardly ever notice since I put a case on it, but it's not ok for a phone manufacturer to let that sort of physical damage go out.

Yes, damage like this was more common in the 90s, but those were commercial games primarily. With the home market being so large, tighter QC needs to be in place.

I guarantee you that a playfield with damage like that would not have left Spooky's doors, and his margins are MUCH more thin than what Stern works with.

Now, it might be unreasonable to expect a whole new machine from Stern, but I would expect that they will try to make it right in some manner. Maybe some freebies or accessories. But this should be made right and not just ignored.

Total hogwash from vid once again!
My pf is warrantied because it has a warranty sticker on it. As long as I don't remove it I'm covered. :p

image_(resized).jpeg

A couple more people get on this "I'm never buying NIB again" kick and Stern's simply going to stop included boxes.

Funny old bunch we are on here, the scrapes on the side of the playfield would not worry me or Sparkys hat.
This would worry me more, CC not sticking to an insert and lifting.

91f88637fbdc1bd0e6ed869a4f3f2342_(resized).jpg

Playfield damage could've happened on final drop of the playfield into the cab before boxing. Who knows? I highly doubt it was like that when the playfield was being pulled and assembled. People make mistakes, sometimes things slip through.

I get it about holding the company to a certain standard. However it seems like people are trying to hold them to a 100% zero defect perfection on every single machine they deliver. It isn't realistic. Instead of dealing with the issue calmly, talking to Stern and distrib and seeing if everyone ends up happy people jump on here posting threads with !!!!! in the subject and out come the pitchforks. Makes the whole community look like chicken little running around whining about the sky falling.

OH CRAP!! Now I have another OCD thing to worry about!

Right. What I'm saying is that there's a balance. The issue should be brought to light to Stern, and Stern should offer a solution or compensation of sorts. Stern needs to hear from the buyer that this sort of damage on a brand new game isn't ok, but that we're also open to reasonable solutions. Brushing this under the rug would be bad, because then there's no accountability, but a reasonable solution should be accepted.

I can post some from my NIB later. In couple hundred plays the clear got bunched up and broke off exposing bare wood. I used Stern's clear-patch-kit and slapped down some mylar. Not a bid deal to me, but I do wonder why it happened and if it's common. Did the clear not cure properly? Seems odd that it was soft enough to get pushed / bunched together.

I've been happy with Stern's responsiveness and help with any issues I've had so far...

I'm not saying this issue should be ignored, I'm saying people should put down the pitchforks and ditch the angry mob mentality.

What is the reasonable solution?? Stern sending out a new populated playfield, so some local tech can do a playfield swap??! That's ludicrous. It's crazy costly, and totally unnecessary.

We're not talking about a new car with a gouged hood here. We're talking about a new car with a few scrapes INSIDE the gas tank! Haha. Just being silly, I know it's easily visible when you lift the playfield. Reality is, it has ZERO effect on gameplay. If somebody tried to shave money off resale value for scrapes on the side of the playfield, I'd laugh them out of my house.

Take a silver sharpie to the helmet, and enjoy your game.

Write a polite letter informing Stern of your disappointment, and get playing one of the greatest pinball machines EVER MADE!!!

I will continue to buy NIB games from Stern because they make incredible pinball machines. I can play them for a year or more and sell them for close to what I paid. That's incredible value for my entertainment dollar!

If you're worried about code completion, or early run QC issues... Simply wait a little bit.

I wouldn't discourage people from buying NIB. I want a healthy future for pinball, and I think Stern is doing a fantastic job.

I hope the Op can find a solution that makes him happy, but angry mobs are just unproductive and lame. Deal with the actual issue, not the aggregated misplaced disappointments of a collective hoard of keyboard warriors.

I love this hobby. It's super fun, and filled with excellent people. People who will help you solve problems, and find and fix machines. People who will help you transport machines. People who put on shows. People who make games. Etc etc. All the online bitching and moaning is a huge drag. This is a MINUTE issue that's being blown WAY out of proportion. There are easy, reasonable solutions to this "problem". Stern needs to know about it from a QC standpoint, but the solutions don't need to be so drastic, costly, and dire.

sucks that it happened. but as far as NIB, I have purchased 4 in the last 8 months, and other than some head decals not adhering to my backbox, have had (knock on wood) zero issues with stern quality. or if there are issues, they aren't enough for me to notice.

I can tell you this, the feeling of opening a NIB machine is like no other. and something I want to do as often as I can.

OP, I hope you get things worked out and that in the end you are a happy stern NIB customer!! best of luck.

I love all these people chiming in saying "oh you can't even see it when the playfield is down, yet if this buyer ever decided to sell these same people would be like "oh what's this? A gouge on the side of the playfield? I'm gonna have to knock at least a few hundred off the asking price for that alone"

+1 (It's like opening up a mint comic book from the 60's/70's, but with more weight and space)

I'd send that buyer packing, and ban his number from my phone.

You would never know, until it arrived to your house

This is because so many on Pinside act like they're part owners of Stern or something instead of consumers like everyone else. And then they play the role of Stern's defense attorneys instead of telling it like it really is, which is that this QC is bull****.

The gouges are from the alignment bits screwed to the side of the cabinet. All Stern playfields will wind up with marks there eventually, either from the playfield being raised/lowered, or from jostling during shipment. Once the spots are worn, no further damage will occur. Not much different from the wear on the back of a Bally SS playfield from being shoved in and out of the cabinet. Id advise the OP to check to see if the alignment bits are installed properly; they may need to be reversed.

IMHO this isn't a problem. The clearcoat issue is a problem.

Right. But back on planet Earth this is a real issue. I don't buy NIB games but if I did I'd be pretty pissed knowing that I just bought something that's worth less than it should be if I ever decide to sell it. Years ago that wouldn't have mattered but as prices have skyrocketed so have the number of potential buyers for whom anal isn't just a porn preference.

Exactly. Even if it doesn't matter to you personally, it will probably matter to a future buyer. And as far as skyrocketing prices resulting in anal buyers, it's definitely a matter of "the worse it gets, the worse it gets".

and they allowed boobies!

Hi Vid, you like to post that image showing Stern's warranty.. you need to include this one as well since it takes precedence over anything Stern says...

warranty_(resized).png

If I were you, I'd hire an attorney who specializes in interstate trade, and see if he believes that a scratch on the side of a playfield that is never seen during normal use, makes the game unfit for it's intended purpose.

If it were me I'd see if I could get a replacement sparky. I'd ask for a DD one if possible as a little extra to take the sting off the scrapes on the sides on the playfield. I would contact my distro or call stern and try to get a resolution before I went on pinside pitching a fit though.

I would give Stern a chance to make it right before blasting them on a forum that they read. Declaring that you will never buy from them again before they have a chance to make it right may give them less incentive to work at making it right. When I had a problem with my NIB game they went above and beyond their printed warranty and made it right and in doing so they kept me as a repeat customer and I purchased from them again NIB. QC issues are going to happen period. It is how Stern responds to these issues is what truly matters and in my experience they will work with the collectors and home buyers to make them happy because they realize these commercial games are not only that anymore. They are successful because like any business they understand that they need to keep current with the ever changing market and take care of the home buyers and collectors. Stern realizes that resale value is important to the home buyer and their "play money" budgets and deals with these issues appropriately IMO.

Vid, you're being deliberately obtuse. Again.

- I already said 5 posts up that the playfield scratches are a non issue due to the construction of the game.
- The part I quoted is not the section on fitness for use, it is the section on uniformity. Read it again.

Or you can continue deliberately "mis-reading" things... up to you

I don't read all of your posts.

I'm not an attorney.

None of that seems to apply here in my very non-attorney opinion.

But, like I said, hire an attorney who specializes in interstate trade and see if he thinks it applies.

Maybe you have a case?

But you're certainly happy to make ASSumptions about what I write.

I don't have a defective game to make a case from. I'd advise anyone who has delaminating inserts to research that statute, however, and mention it to their distributor.

Totally agree with this, which alone is justification for exposing these issues on Pinside instead of just talking to Stern and not telling anyone about it.

Since these issues seem to be getting worse lately in terms of frequency, and some people are turned off by the increasing numbers of threads that result from Stern's apparently poor QA processes, maybe what we need is a sticky thread where people can post their NIB Stern issues. That way, the crowd of Stern apologists who would "rather not talk about it" , or "are too busy having !FUN! to notice defects" can drain it and continue to live in happy ignorance. Meanwhile, the rest of the community will have a resource to reference these types of issues and judge for themselves whether Stern is producing, and more importantly backing, games worthy of the NIB price.

In the end, this information is a resource for Stern as well, by seeing the collector community's response to these issues they get exposed to the realities of the market's expectations which I'm sure they'd find preferable to to just quietly losing sales because of not meeting them.

I own or have owned most new sterns since 2001. They have been great with any issues.

You've got it backwards there buddy....

You were blabbing to me about some law that **I** was supposed to include in **my** posts.

I only replied to your nonsense because it was directed at me....get it?

Does not look that bad if it;s only on the side.

I definitely think this should be standard practice. Just have the distributor open the box, set up the pin and make sure everything is in order before taking delivery. This desire to be the person that opens the box is stupid. Would you rather be satisfied with the condition of your game or take the gamble and open the box yourself?

zzzzz this thread is lame.

It's all we got until Stern announces the next new title.

I think many of you don't even play pinball. You just set at your computers bitching about everything pinball related. Most of your games must be for show as I wouldn't notice or bat an eye over most of what everyone on pinside throws an all out fit about.

OP, contact stern directly. They have a long history of making things right or at the least trying to resolve problems. Most of the time they are doing it well outside of their written warranty. If that's not good enough for most people then all of those people need to stop buying NIB games. It's just that simple.

Yeah I never quite got that one either

Buy from Refinery and you can have them inspect the game, add a few mods and make sure all is perfect.

Don't be so sure...I hear the mod makers are pre announcing mods for games that haven't even been announced/made yet!

Two points:

1. Nobody sweats the small stuff until something like this happens to them.

2. Stern ships games like this for the same reason dogs lick their balls.

All they do is slap on some god awful ugly colored rails and some "mods" and up charge the price a ton. Those monsters are far from perfect.

What this guy said. Close and delete this thread, it's embarrassing.