(Topic ID: 194604)

Stern NEW policy - GHOSTING IS NORMAL....OR IS IT?

By capguntrooper

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 839 posts
  • 224 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by leonml
  • Topic is favorited by 21 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Are Cloudy inserts, stress cracks and GHOSTING often seen on NIB pins and should that be normal?”

  • NO WAY ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! 601 votes
    77%
  • YES, ghosting is often seen on NIB pins and is normal. 45 votes
    6%
  • I don't care I am never buying a NIB from STERN again 135 votes
    17%

(Multiple choice - 781 votes by 755 Pinsiders)

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#211 6 years ago
Quoted from dnapac:

One more question. So, we have run into this problem, and the companies don't seem to be very innovating with fixes on site. Has anyone tried to fix a ghosting insert? One way I have thought of it using a fine needle and injected more clearcoat directly into the bubble. The small puncture could be lightly sanded and polished so almost not visible...just a thought.

We used UV resin with a very fine needle. You need 2 needles, one to inject and one to purge. Injected the resin and UV cured. Works, but we should not be doing this on any new machine. We got the info from a thread on Pinside. We currently have 8 machines and the only machine that had ghosting was GBLE. We attempted the fix the day before we were due to get our replacement playfield.

#245 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I see ghosting all the time on many games.
CV, ToTAN, IJ, TAF, TZ, HS2, GI, AFM, MB, Shadow, you name it. If it has clearcoat on it, i've probably seen a playfield or 2 that had ghosting somewhere. It's inevitable. It can happen, anywhere, any time, any manufacturer. The problem is, that inserts are shifting way earlier than expected (on these new sterns), which is causing the ghosting. it's either from the CAD cutouts of the playfield, not being tight enough for the insert. Or too tight. Or crappy glue allowing shifting. Or the insert is a plastic that is shrinking at a massively fast rate. System 11's have a bad problem with the plastic used in the inserts, reacting with the lacquer and creating air pocket bubbles in the plastic of the insert. Which when clearcoated. makes them really stand out. So many factors can create these problems, and you won't know right away. Very hard issue to track down.
if you want a pinball company to step up their game and release a better product, and reduce prices. You HAVE to stop buying. It's the only way you will be heard.

Thank you CaptainNeo for contributing information that is fact. All manufacturers seem to be having the same issues. I think that not glueing the inserts properly is what is causing the headaches. Like the cabinets, very little or no glue at all. The fact that none of the manufacturers will admit to what is happening is the part that worries us about buying NIB machines. Time will tell.

#256 6 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

My Ghostbusters premium with 80 plays .
The shooter lane clear was actually chipping and delaminating as well as the ghosting inserts.
No glue or inserts in the shooter lane Neo

That is heartbreaking. We have been there. Put some Cliffys on as soon as you can and that will stop it from getting any worse. We tried Mylar but the shooter lane kept chipping under the Mylar even with the trough eject power turned right down.

#367 6 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

Just to clarify, that was the first original Playfield shooter lane pic that was warrantied. The replacement is holding up well thus far.

That is good news. We got our replacement as well. Ours is holding up well. We have fitted Cliffys and playfield protector too. My wife loves her GBLE.

#383 6 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

You still havent answered my question

Do yourself a favour and read http://www.classicplayfields.com/standards.html

It may help calm you down.

#397 6 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

Vid and other playfield experts are (wisely) steering clear of this thread. But I'd love to know what they think.

Me too!

#496 6 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

I've been following and keeping tabs on the Playfield issue for some time. Either my personal games or friends or my local ops.
Of the ones I personally own still in my collection everything was great with no issues ending with Kiss and starting with Game of Thrones. I bought a GoTLE started seeing clearcoat chipping and delaminating and insert issues. Then Ghostbusters really blew things up, causing Gary to make a public announcement during expo last year at the seminar.
If you have a decal on the edge of your field it's a Churchill. Good stuff and has been for ages. Game of Thrones was a turning point. Other suppliers and Playfield manufacturers came into the mix.
I'm really not saying anything new that hasn't been said in other threads before but you have to dig and read.
Here is pics of my recent pf Sterns.
I'm not here to bash anyone, Stern as a company have excellent employees and people that really do care and their customer service is fantastic, Pat Powers and Chas are top notch.
I do hope that they get their playfield issue taken care of as soon as possible because it's not good for business or customer relations. But ghosting inserts on brand new in the box games or only two or three months old is not normal.
It will affect resale and in my opinion ghosting is a preemptive problem to clearcoat flaking, chipping or lifting issues which is really not good.

Thank you very much for posting some very interesting fact. I find that extremely informative and very helpful. I really like dealing with all the people at Stern too. I have even proposed buying a spare playfield for each machine we purchase for my own peace of mind and our distro laughed and said there is no need to do that. I am happy with the way our Stern Distro looks after us.

#711 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

on EM's, the inserts have shrank so much, there is a huge gap between the wood and the plastic. even if the glue is holding up, it's so far away from the wood, there isn't a way it could even hold. Most EM's I can pop out inserts from the backside with just a little push with my finger.

Thank you very much for posting honest answers. This is what pinball needs to succeed.

4 weeks later
#772 6 years ago
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:

Well... here's a happy ending. Just got my giant box to swap my ghosted SW play field. Only needed to provide my distro with some close ups of the inserts, he reached out to Stern, and a few weeks later this showed up.
I really think the whole ghosting language is there to prevent somebody from demanding a replacement if there's just a tiny isolated sliver. I've had those in the past and never asked for a replacement.
No idea what the threshold is, I had three major ones and another four slivers.
I was a little nervous when the ghosting started, but Stern stepped up... so kudos to them. As a result I decided to also grab an AC/DC premium vault, which goes to show that it's absolutely in their best interest to take care of their customers.
Can't wait to lug this thing home on the train

That is a fantastic outcome. Great job and well done to your distro and Stern.

#790 6 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Seems like as an operator, if Stern will (quickly) send you populated playfield replacements as recompense for bad ghosting this whole situation could work out OK. Route it for a year, then swap in a brand new playfield if you're "lucky" enough to have serious ghosting. A year of playfield/mech wear and tear instantly vanishes, and you get a bit more on resale down the line when the game is no longer earning well.

I feel this is what the new wording "ghosting is normal" is all about. Stern are looking to protect themselves from people getting a new playfield and then immediately selling the machine. Stern are more than happy to warrant their product to genuine buyers. They are looking to protect their core business customers and good for them. We will definitely continue to buy and enjoy every manufacturers product.

#797 6 years ago
Quoted from Lamprey:

Stern is trying to protect themselves form the greedy bastards that what to sell there machine and not take a bath because the playfield has ghosting? Really? You can't possible believe what you wrote, can you?
It's a CYA maneuver so they are less culpable. They don't have to do anything regarding ghosting as the playfield isn't covered under warrantee. I think it's great that they are actually replacing some playfields. That way they can be the "good guys" by replacing a part they don't even warrantee out of the goodness of their heat.
My guess is, sadly, it's jut a matter of time before they stop doing that and point to "ghosting is normal" an call it a day.

Stern looked after us and replaced a GBLE playfield for us. The other 2 replacement playfields, machines were immediately sold "as new with new playfield". So yes, I do believe exactly what I wrote. Most new pin buyers are not on Pinside so how would they know any different?

1 week later
#829 6 years ago
Quoted from MarcelG:

Heres a pic of my HS2 playfield clearcoated by Playfield Renovations back in 2005. It started initially as a NOS playfield I bought from Ebay.
Not a single sign of ghosting until a few months ago. I blame it on changes in surrounding temp and humidity as the playfield was stored in a drive-up (non-climate controlled) storage as cab was worked on. Before then it was in the cab and normally used.
Stern is seriously screwing with you people.

That is such a shame. Our HS2 started like that (your photo) and then the clear chipped around the inserts. I am fairly sure that this issue is fairly common on HS2 as I have seen many (most originals) like this, including ours. I do remember clear coat chipping on brand new B/W games around the early 90's. Thanks very much for sharing your photos.

#837 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

i'm fully aware that his job will probably kill me in the end. I do what I can, but i'm sure it will catch up to me sooner or later.
Ghosting is hit or miss. I've seen ghosting in all playfields done by every restorer. It's something we cannot control. We can get rid of it if it happens to a point. But there is nothing we can do to keep it from possibly coming back. Types of plastic and shape of the inserts does have a huge factor if they are prone to ghosting more than others.

Thank you for your honesty and taking the time to post in this thread.

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