(Topic ID: 194604)

Stern NEW policy - GHOSTING IS NORMAL....OR IS IT?

By capguntrooper

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 839 posts
  • 224 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by leonml
  • Topic is favorited by 21 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Are Cloudy inserts, stress cracks and GHOSTING often seen on NIB pins and should that be normal?”

  • NO WAY ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! 601 votes
    77%
  • YES, ghosting is often seen on NIB pins and is normal. 45 votes
    6%
  • I don't care I am never buying a NIB from STERN again 135 votes
    17%

(Multiple choice - 781 votes by 755 Pinsiders)

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#70 6 years ago

I have a sw pro and have no issues with it, it's actually the first nib game I've had that literally didn't need a single adjustment out of the box. I'm annoyed by other things related to the splike system, but so far pf quality and overall out of the box experience has been positive. And, it's one of the best coded games out of the box in a long long time.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a sw pro if you like and want the game, but like everyone else here, I dont agree that ghosting and stress cracking should be considered normal.

#156 6 years ago

if anyone wants a new out of box pro with no ghosting and a few nice mods (shaker, mirrors, backbox) I'll sell mine. But because it has no ghosting or any other issues, I guess it should come with a premium price. Make me an offer if you are serious.

-3
#204 6 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

if anyone wants a new out of box pro with no ghosting and a few nice mods (shaker, mirrors, backbox) I'll sell mine. But because it has no ghosting or any other issues, I guess it should come with a premium price. Make me an offer if you are serious.

I am actually dead serious on this. If someone wants a sw pro known to have a good playfield with maybe 100 plays,, let me know. I'll include a lighted millennium falcon too. Game plays really nice. I'd want 5700 for it...includes shaker and mirrors.

#317 6 years ago

How many games have been publicly reported as having playfield issues? I'm aware of one, maybe two that I've seen pics of on lonside.. Mine is good and was one of the first off the line.

#647 6 years ago
Quoted from D-Gottlieb:

My thinking is that problem lies in the wood of the playfield. The wood expands, contracts and the insert effectively sinks. If the wood were completely cured/dry, the ghosting would not occur.

I used to make furniture, still have all my equipment, and have some experience with finishing. I don't know exactly what the issue is but it may very well have to do with cure time. Whatever products they are using are not being allowed to cure before moving to the next step or are not curing in the right conditions (too much or too little humidity, for example).

It could also be a chemical reaction between products, especially if something changed. For example, they may be wiping/sanding between coats with something causing issues. The tiniest bit of silicone will kill adhesion. If you wax your table saw and that wax has silicon in it, kiss your wood goodbye.

Environmental issues may also be having an impact as more and more chemicals get watered down. Or Stern and/or its finisher cut back to save a few dollars.

What's interesting, however, is why JJP doesn't seem to have these issues. Presumably, the same or very similar products are being used, which leads me back to cure time or a change in their products and /or process.

If I buy a piece of furniture and it started to haze, crack, ghost, whatever, it would be going back to the store. Stern's policy is not very good and it's just not normal. Dimples, yes.

I keep my games in a temp controlled environment with temp around 70 and RH at 50% and thankfully haven't had issues so far.

#650 6 years ago
Quoted from D-Gottlieb:

And temp variations could be another factor. Bottom line is this- Ghosting seems to always propagate from the border of the insert. If it were chemical incompatibility wouldn't it be occurring all over the playfield? Premature or green playfield wood is my guess.

I doubt it, it's plywood. There is an adhesion issue going on between the plastic inserts and the clear. That's a curing or chemical issue, it's not the wood. I don't know why it's not on every insert, but if it were the wood, it would be everywhere.

#683 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

yes. Remember, we stated how playfields are made. All inserts are inserted and glued in. Then they are sent through a plainer which sands off about 1/16-1/8" off the top of the field to make it flat, level the inserts to the playfield and scuff the playfield to get ready for screen printing so the ink sticks. Then it's screen printed. Then cleared.
So i'll repeat this for the 10th time in this thread alone. The reason it ghosts at the edges is because.........wait for it..........wait............wait for it........... Because of the Wood, expanding and contracting to the edges of the plastic insert. *Gasp*. So here we go again. Lets review.
Expanding and contracting of the wood
Plastic insert does not expand and contract
There for, creating a fault line on the edges of the insert. Allowing air to sneak in the back, up under the clear. and......>TA-DAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. Ghost pocket.
Now factors that can cause and accelerate this process. are.
Humidity and temp changes
Insert cutout too large allowing slop in the insert
Insert cutout too small allowing the insert to be forced upwards
Shrinking of the insert from the plastic shrinking (takes years and decades for this to happen)
insert made to the wrong spec and made to small or too large
silicone somehow got on the playfield
gremlins snuck into the factory and started banging on the inserts from the backside with a drill bit and a hammer.

I'm not convinced it's the wood. Plywood is extremely stable unless it's exposed to moisture, which can affect the glue holding the layers together. But you'd need a lot of moisture for that to happen, especially in a short period. If it were solid wood, I'd definitely think it was a factor, but that isn't the case. There is more that likely some kind of residue on the inserts causing a reaction and the clear to separate.

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