(Topic ID: 194604)

Stern NEW policy - GHOSTING IS NORMAL....OR IS IT?

By capguntrooper

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 839 posts
  • 224 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by leonml
  • Topic is favorited by 21 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Are Cloudy inserts, stress cracks and GHOSTING often seen on NIB pins and should that be normal?”

  • NO WAY ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! 601 votes
    77%
  • YES, ghosting is often seen on NIB pins and is normal. 45 votes
    6%
  • I don't care I am never buying a NIB from STERN again 135 votes
    17%

(Multiple choice - 781 votes by 755 Pinsiders)

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17
#695 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

considering I restore playfields for a living and have been a professional restorer for around 11 years now. I can tell you, that i've seen every single B/W clearcoated title with ghosting in some form or another. Every single game. Doesn't matter if it's T2, GI, AFM, NGG, MB, JM, DM, RFM, MM, every single one. Seen it out of DE and Sega as well. Even capcom. I've seen it on CPR fields, and HEP fields. It's unavoidable.
Remember air humidity and extreme temp changes from being shipped around the country can be a contributing factor. Even if the plywood flexes .5 mm, if air can seep in from behind. You will get it. But it is true they could be using a new type of glue, that is giving off gas way after it's hardened. Which would force an air pocket as well.

True. We don't make the playfields we just restore or recoat them.
The insert ghosting is something that occurs below the surface of the work performed and it is a matter of how well the initial factory surface is bonded.
I have over 25 years experience as a autorefinisher coupled with 15 years restoring playfields and machines.
That stated I have learned to accept insert ghosting as out of my control even though it is disappointing.
As an auto refinisher we had two different methods for painting either metal or plastic.
Knowing that this is where I see the flaw in general playfield production.
The type of pretreatment and process needed for the lens/inserts should be different than the process for wood in theory because paints and coatings easily absorb into wood but they are much tougher to bond to plastic.
Plastic cleaners,and primers are made to deal with this and must be used for the best bond even if you cannot appreciate it at the time it is a longevity consideration.
With the lenses already in place before they are screened and coated there is no way there is an independent process for each surface.
Without a way to do or address that then it is always a bit of a gamble and there seem to be time periods where it is more problematic than others.
WPC 95 is a period for Williams and it looks like the latest run of Sterns is now that equivalent.

#700 6 years ago
Quoted from Underspin:

A question for HEP:
Chuckwurt showed several pics of GOT inserts all with ghosting somewhere on the left side. In your opinion is that coincidental? I like and agree with your theory of plastic pretreatment vs wood but was just curious as to why in Chuck's case all the damage would be sustained on one side.

I am not really familiar with GOT gameplay or layout but my best guess is that there are more air balls on that side of the game or general use there.
The use and impacts are going to compromise the poor insert adhesion quicker than lighter use and little to no impact but even that is a broad statement because it could flex more in some places when pulled into service positions.
The main issue with all ghosted inserts is poor insert coating adhesion and it going to vary from game to game and playfield to playfield.

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