Sorry to hear that, just nuts though.

Speaking of Alexa, and with my apologies I dont have one, my son has Bixby, I believe, on his Samsung.
He wanted to know if there was a way where they would talk to each other non-stop?

Sorry for the short de-rail

In my "unprofessional" opinion, the reason that is happening is because of how hard that the ball slams into the shooter lane. The first thing I did when I seen how hard the ball was ejecting from the ball trough to the shooter lane was turn the trough eject power down to the minimum setting. This should have been done in the code before any GB games ever reached the customers. It won't fix your damage that's already been done obviously but if I were you I would turn the trough eject power all the way down and put some Mylar over the damage in the shooter lane. Maybe it will stop it from getting any worse.

Yeah, I wouldn't call them out on FB. Those are the marketing guys. I'd call Pat Powers instead. He helped me troubleshoot a switch issue on my NIB MET Pro, that turned out to be a reversed diode. I asked him for a Premium manual for my troubles, and he sent it right away. I think he's in charge of both QA and tech support at Stern, but I could be wrong.

That is heartbreaking. We have been there. Put some Cliffys on as soon as you can and that will stop it from getting any worse. We tried Mylar but the shooter lane kept chipping under the Mylar even with the trough eject power turned right down.

I've never understood why cliffy's are not installed on shooter lanes in the factory. They've started putting them on some scoops, but shooter lanes cop allot more abuse.

"Ghosting" Isn't an issue for me. It doesn't affect play, it is BARELY noticeable unless someone points it out, and in fact, it looks cool, like old school marbled plastic. The only real problem with "ghosting" is that it potentially hurts the resale value of the machine.

Stern is reaping the rewards of the expanding home market, but they've created a huge problem for themselves by turning commercial pinball machines into a home consumer product. Some of these potential buyers will have drastically differnt expectations for what a machine's cosmetics should look like than their traditional buyer.

The statement is surely a CYA for Stern at this point. It's also an attempt to readjust the expectations of a smaller - but growing - portion of their market.

I'm not sure how it will play out. In the end I doubt this clause in their manual costs them too many sales. Home Pinball buyers are an enthusiastic and habitual segment of their market.

I suppose they've done a cost/benefit analysis and have decided it will cost them less to place this clause in their manual in possible lost sales than it will cost them to replace any playfield that a consumer says is defective. This is a normal part of running any successful business. People shouldn't take it personally.

Hey I'm just trying to help the guy so get pissed all you want to I don't care. Of course the clear coat sucks on his game, we all know that or he wouldn't have ghosting, but you can't tell me that the ball ejecting out of the eject trough as hard as it does on GB isn't busting up that shitty ass clear coat on his game. I own a GB and YOU don't so maybe I do know what I'm talking about. I mean look at where it's chipping, right where the ball ejects, any idiot can see that.

Yes he should ask for a new playfield, we all know that and I think that he already has. For the time being though just in case they decide to screw him out of one he should do EXACTLY what I told him to do, then like the other person said he should put some cliffy's on there. The second that I booted my game up I knew that eject power IS a problem and that I had to do something. Thankfully there is a trough eject power in the adjustment settings and you can turn it all the way down and it ejects nice and soft into the shooter lane. I realize that you know everything and that you are a pro at all things pinball but maybe you could learn something by listening to other people once in awhile, especially from someone who owns the game. Jesus dude you are amazing I tell ya!

Interesting. I did however notice the 10 amp rating in the specs. Specifically it says "Power output: 1200W/10A (max)". Some using a power strip to power a bank of machines on a 20 amp circuit might want to know about this limitation.

Pat Powers:
708-786-7047

The clear coat on your shooter lane has failed and it's only going to get worse. You need to contact both Powers and your distro that sold you that GBLE. Ride their asses untill they tell you to send pictures, you spent way too much money to put up with your PF coming apart after less than 80 plays. Put your foot in their ass!

I'm amazed that anyone would purchase a NIB $8500 pin that has a disclaimer that ghosting, chipped PF's, and faulty graphics are normal! You have been notified by Stern that this type of failure is normal so are you screwed and are you willing to take this kinda chance? The disclaimer wasn't written by Stern it was written by lawyers in an effort to keep their money in the bank, they can't afford to replace all the POS PF's

stern defenders now say that ghosting actually looks good, wtf??

stockholm syndrome at its worst!

True American craftsmanship.... My a$$.

I'm running into serious trouble because if no one is buying NIB pins from STERN any longer from whom I can purchase my HUO?

Wait.... what?

I think you've written the new introduction for Sterns' next operating manual.

I offered the guy some good friendly advice to help wit his problem for the time being, he can agree or disagree with it that's up to him. I like to help people when I can and I don't feel bad about trying to help someone out, especially when the information that I gave him was good information. I really don't care what your opinion of it is. If you're such an expert it seems like you would know that the trough eject on GB is set extremely too high and so high that it will damage people's shooter lanes.

but you know that the only way it changes, the only way Stern hears us, is no nib purchase anymore

No you don't. People can be hypocrites (I'm proof). They can swear they will never buy a NIB again, and then they do. They can swear they will never pay over 5k for a game, and then they do. After getting a playfield replaced they will put their foot down and say that's it... until the right game comes out. Many of the people that say they won't buy a NIB were not going buy one to anyway. So any estimate from this forum is flawed.

Hey Stern.
Build Better!

I've yet to find this setting in my KISS or BM66.

While i agree with this statement i cant help but to notice that the tide is changing. My last nib was GB and the only reason why i bought the damn thing is because i had in writing from my distro that i woukd be covered if my pf had ghosting. Short of that i wouldnt have bought the game.

At that time thr pro model wad at the top of what i wanted to pay and i knew eventually star wars would come around and that i would have to sell a game ro get it.

But the fact that the price difference between my gb and star wars is more than 1k makes this title unworthy on price alone.

Now factor in ghosting problems that are now considered normal and i automatically have stopped caring what stern dishes out.

Bullshit pricing, bullshit lowring of features, bullshit legal clauses = im not drinking their koolaid.

dont they send u a 'clear coat repair kit' ?

LMAO. Have you seen this kit? It laughable at best.

i forgot this sorry.

DaveH and to further prove that people are pissed off I just posted a post on Where's the Code about this new clause and is by far one of the most talked about post "ever" with a reach of 3400. If people would hit "Share" and put it on their timeline that number would quadruple in an amount of minutes.

People must understand that pinside is isolated and Stern doesn't really give a shit because we are our own little island. But if word can get out outside the perimeter, that's when things get interesting. I'm also realistic that this numbers are small but if people really want to raise their voices..... well...there is a way.

I'm not a specifically a Stern hater. I've owned more Sterns than any other brand of games. I just hate how they treat their bread and butter.

https://www.facebook.com/wheresthecode/ go ahead and share away.

post-stern (resized).jpg

It may not be on those games, I'm not sure? It's definitely on GB though and it's definitely needed also because the ball just slams into the shooter lane big time. I have TWD, AS, and GOT and those three games do not shoot the ball out with anywhere near the same force as GB does. I don't know if those games have that setting or not?

Stern changed playfield supplier to someone newer, and cheaper.

The new supplier can not make playfields as good as Churchill.

Stern blames picky buyers for warranty costs, and will blame customers again when sales fall.

Game over - No code updates for you.

The guy you were trying to "help" is one of the most connected guys in the hobby. He knows exactly what he should do... the point of his post was to plainly prove the postulations from neo were woefully inadequate.

Well I don't know who the guy is sorry, and i was offering him some advice that I thought may be of use to him. If it isn't that is fine and I'm ok with that as I am sure that he is as well. I doubt if he takes offense to someone trying to help him. I will listen to anyone's advice I don't care who they are, doesn't mean that I got to take it. I appreciate anyone trying to help me and I'm certainly not going to be a dick and down vote them for trying to help me.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are making playfields in another part of the world. About a little over a year ago they posted a video of playfields being wired up and assembled on Facebook. Since that time they took the video down. In the videoclip it was all Mexican people speaking Spanish. On their webpage I asked "Is this factory in Chicago because all the workers in the videoclip were not speaking english. I was immediately banned from posting on their Facebook page and the video was removed off the site.

It was about that time that their issues with the playfields seemed to start so I definitely think there is a connection there but Stern will never confirm that their stuff is being made outside the USA and they still have their production facility in Chicago so they can always say hey we produce in the USA. But I have my doubts.

You were probably banned because the comment was perceived has "racist". No they dont have a factory in Mexico but they do employ a lot of immigrants (not a bad thing).

My thoughts exactly!

And now that this is clearly stated in the owners manual there is no amount of bitching that should be tolerated should you buy one of these machines and you have ghosting.

Now is the time to put up or shut up and show STERN by no longer opening your wallets.

Are you always trolling?

Ghosting looks cool....Are you joking?

See this is what I mean. I don't take your comment personally because I know you don't understand this part of this business. I've been selling pinball machines - hundreds of them - for over 15 years. In the same time I've been involved in hundreds of flamewars, catfights, and sludgefests - usually in good fun i'd hope - but it's never hurt my reputation when it comes to selling pins. Because when people buy games, they do a cost/benefit analysis. And they know that even if they disagree with me on an opinion, it's irrelevant to the probability that they'll be happy with a game they buy from me, based upon my decade-and-a-half record of fair dealing.

Nobody is going to hesitate to buy from me because I think ghosting look cool and that Stern's course of action here is perfectly reasonable. And Stern isn't going to lose many sales due to this clause because in the long run, Stern games are cool and people will get over it. On the other hand, if they continue to replace any playfield that a customer perceives as ghosting - or dimpling, let's not forget - they'll have a huge potential problem.

I have a Funhouse for sale on Facebook. I've received literally a half-dozen PMs from people who want to know if my game has a new playfield, new ramps, new cab decals, etc. I had to post a comment in the thread pointing out that if my game had ANY of these things, I'd have mentioned it already and the game would in fact be priced much higher. I thought it was necessary to readjust the expectations of some of the potential buyers I have for this machine. I felt this could save them - and me - some potential hassles down the road.

That's what Stern is doing here. I don't understand why it's making people angry. They are trying to run a business not make friends. Everybody has to decide for themselves if they want to do business with Stern, but they should leave the emotion out of it.

Hey everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter how crazy it is

I have one other thought as to why this may have happened. We all know Star Wars has been in the pipeline for a long time and has been pushed back from release a few times. Is it possible these playfields were run/manufactured at the same time as GB, with the same processes?

If so, was this disclaimer for STERN to cover their collective ass so they wouldn't have to re-run all of these playfields? You know, we have these, use them mentality? Is this a stop gap until the next machine is announced at EXPO and Gary can proudly announce the playfield issues have been resolved?

In other words, a calculated gamble because hey, it's Star Wars, it's going to sell no matter what?

I'm new to this hobby, so feel free to ignore what's sure to be an uninformed and unpopular opinion :

.

That's the problem. $8500 is cheap.

Adjusted for inflation, that's comparable to what they were getting for arcade machines in the 80s. Nowadays, the machines are more complicated, and produced at lower volume. ... but the buyers expect a museum piece instead of a banger to go in a bowling alley.

I'm sure it's been rough transitioning from selling to business people, to selling to individuals.

Screenshot_6 (resized).png

Wow, I never noticed how totally freakin' cool ghosting is before you mentioned it! These aren't the gullible pinsiders you're looking for...move along, move along.

IMG_0088 (resized).JPG

Well after this Stern Policy, I'm guessing a lot more of us have been band from there facebook page.

What a Joke, looks like I'm buying HUO from now on.

Is the Stern Army supposed to be a militant group?

I see this bandied about a lot.

Serious question time ... If no one is buying these Stern pins anymore because of *insert Pinside complaint of the day*, who would you purchase it from?

Second question ... You do find a HUO of *insert awesome game you really want* and it has *insert Pinside complaint of the day* issues, how much would you expect to save?

Eventually my RUO pins will come up for sale (unless I love the game, TWD, I'm looking at you). Pin has depreciated tax wise, has had thousands of plays, and has *insert Pinside complaint of the day* issues, how much would you expect to save?

100%

I know it sucks but that little bit of ghosting does not make the entire pin "a piece of junk". I don't get the segment of the hobby that buys pins immediately after a theme is announce. No plays, no wait and see if any issues, or where the code is at. Once they own the pin then they act like Stern pulled a fast one on them. I get the complaints where qc issues where part of some runs and not others. I ended up with a MET pro with a pretty bad ghosting insert. I just don't see how you could expect Stern to replace the playfield at the cost of big money over something like that where it's only cosmetic. It does however affect my decision to buy more Stern pins. One thing I liked about Stern pins was their reliability and quality. They might of cut a few corners but their pins would just work play after play. I don't have that same feeling anymore.

I would have been happier to hear that he was wearing an "archer" ball cap

It's all good, not a big deal. I was actually trying to help him, I had no idea if he was a noob in the hobby or someone that knows a million times more than what I do. I do believe that I have seen his name on here now that I think of it but maybe he changed his avatar or something and I didn't recognize him or something like that. It's cool though....we are good no worries.