(Topic ID: 194604)

Stern NEW policy - GHOSTING IS NORMAL....OR IS IT?

By capguntrooper

6 years ago


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  • 839 posts
  • 224 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by leonml
  • Topic is favorited by 21 Pinsiders

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“Are Cloudy inserts, stress cracks and GHOSTING often seen on NIB pins and should that be normal?”

  • NO WAY ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! 601 votes
    77%
  • YES, ghosting is often seen on NIB pins and is normal. 45 votes
    6%
  • I don't care I am never buying a NIB from STERN again 135 votes
    17%

(Multiple choice - 781 votes by 755 Pinsiders)

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There are 839 posts in this topic. You are on page 16 of 17.
#751 6 years ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

Thanks for getting the playfield number. Mine is 2198 of 2105. Hmmmm, going to keep a close eye on mine. 90 plays, had it for just over a week.

Mine started after about 350 or so. Good luck.

#752 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

It's not a new thing. It's not a stern thing. it will happen to the other brands as well. If it has clearcoat, it can happen.
Hate ghosting? Buy early SS or EM's that are not clearcoated. Problem solved.

I only down voted this because it's not as black and white. But yes, it can happen. The obvious response is that it never happened this quickly (years and years under routed conditions vs weeks in home) or, in many cases, never at all.

My HUO RBION (Stern 2004) is ghost free as well as the vast majority of my WPC pins. With that said, I've certainly seen light ghosting on 25 year old WPC games.

#753 6 years ago

Perhaps everyone is looking at this all wrong if you are one of the lucky ones that do not have ghosting. Your game is actually worth more then NIB pricing.

Get your S**T together ALL pinball Manufacture's!

#754 6 years ago
Quoted from J85M:

Nope, guy here in the UK with ghosting playfield his got worse within a matter of weeks, there have also been plenty of examples shown on pinside where the ghosting has progressed within a couple of months, always good to know the playfield production date when trying to gauge these things.

Well of course its progressing because if it wasn't it would have never shown up in the first place lol. Anyway, as far as playfield dates go, that doesn't really mean much to me on a game like ST that has very few ghosting issues anyway. On GB, it may have meant something for sure because they obviously changed something in their process when they made the first Ghostbusters playfields. As far as ST though, you may just get a bad one here and there where the clear didn't adhere to the insert good, probably because of the playfield preparation on that particular playfield. Nothing is 100% guaranteed, but I think your chances of getting a good ST playfield are pretty good.

#755 6 years ago
Quoted from altan:

I only down voted this because it's not as black and white. But yes, it can happen. The obvious response is that it never happened this quickly (years and years under routed conditions vs weeks in home) or, in many cases, never at all.
My HUO RBION (Stern 2004) is ghost free as well as the vast majority of my WPC pins. With that said, I've certainly seen light ghosting on 25 year old WPC games.

a lot has to do where you live and where you keep your games. Someone that leaves the game sit in the garage is going to ghost faster. Higher humidity areas, more ghosting. The more expanding and contracting the wood goes through, the faster it happens. We all live in different regions. Games move around totally different climate conditions. Really hard to judge which climates are speeding this process up.

#756 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

a lot has to do where you live and where you keep your games. Someone that leaves the game sit in the garage is going to ghost faster. Higher humidity areas, more ghosting. The more expanding and contracting the wood goes through, the faster it happens. We all live in different regions. Games move around totally different climate conditions. Really hard to judge which climates are speeding this process up.

Your logic would be sound 2-3 years ago and in the form of maybe a couple of dozen or so with route games and fewer with HUO games. As it stands now your formula would not affect so many games without an additional variable such as cheaper wood, cheaper clear coat, less cure time and horrible QC. There is a reason why Stern has put out a NEW policy/disclaimer or whatever you want to call it addition to their new manuals now. No need to muddy waters here with excuses for ghosting I seriously doubt there are more than a few people here that keep their NIB HUO machines in high humidity garages as you stated.

#757 6 years ago

i know of several people that had a NIB game sitting in a garage when it was 90 degrees out side , until they could bring it in the house and get it setup. That's all it takes. Extreme cold or extreme heat can make it happen prematurely. I'm not saying this is the only factor, but it still is a factor. could be different levels of wood. Could be different plastic in the inserts, could be how those inserts are glued and CAD cut. I really don't think it's the clear itself. Clear really can only be made one way. Playfields are ground flat and then screen printed. So they are all scuffed the same through the leveling process. Ghosting can't be the clear or it would do it in random spots, not just on insert edges.

#758 6 years ago
Quoted from ExtremePinball:

Let's see.... Both of my GB have ghosting inserts, my AS Pro has ghosting inserts, and my SW Pro has ghosting inserts.

Out of curiosity, how is your MMR holding up? It most likely was assembled at Stern around the same time as GB or a bit prior, wondering if it was from the same play field manufacturer as GB, AS or SW.

23
#759 6 years ago
Quoted from pumpkinlad:

Out of curiosity, how is your MMR holding up? It most likely was assembled at Stern around the same time as GB or a bit prior, wondering if it was from the same play field manufacturer as GB, AS or SW.

MMR was made way before GB. It's fine. It's sitting in my 115 degree warehouse with a dozen other pins. None have ghosting inserts. All are pre-GB or non-stern, with the exception of my GBLE which has exactly 1 play on it since playfield replacement.

Stories:

Quoted from CaptainNeo:

i know of several people that had a NIB game sitting in a garage when it was 90 degrees out side , until they could bring it in the house and get it setup. That's all it takes. Extreme cold or extreme heat can make it happen prematurely. I'm not saying this is the only factor, but it still is a factor.

Facts:

Kiss pro (15k+ plays) - At NYNY since NIB, no ghosting inserts.
Metallica Pro (22k+ plays) - At NYNY since NIB, no ghosting inserts.
AC/DC Pro (22k+ plays) - At NYNY since NIB, no ghosting inserts.
ST Premium (23k+ plays) - At NYNY since NIB, no ghosting inserts.
WD Pro (22k+ plays) - At NYNY since HUO Purchase, no ghosting inserts.
IMVE - (33k+ plays) - At NYNY since NIB, no ghosting inserts.

GB Pro (19k+ plays) - At NYNY since NIB, 6 progressively ghosting inserts.
AS Pro (3k+ plays) - At NYNY since NIB, 6 progressively ghosting inserts.
SW Pro (2k+ plays) - At NYNY since NIB, 4 progressively ghosting inserts.

I've moved at least another half-dozen pre-GB pins in/out of NYNY in the last two years, as well as a WOZ. None had ghosted inserts. So here we've conclusively ruled out humidity, temperature, environmental fluctuations, etc. The remainder of my Stern collection, with the exception of a 2007 Spiderman that I bought from auction heavily routed, remains "ghosting" free.

Something changed beginning with GB.

#760 6 years ago

some walking dead and some ST's have ghosting. People have showed them on here.

#761 6 years ago

ExtremePinball you attributed a quote to me that I didn't write. Please correct....

#762 6 years ago
Quoted from altan:

extremepinball you attributed a quote to me that I didn't write. Please correct....

Apologies. Corrected.

#763 6 years ago
Quoted from ExtremePinball:

Something changed beginning with GB.

Quoted from CaptainNeo:

some walking dead and some ST's have ghosting. People have showed them on here.

Sounds though that the older titles experiencing ghosting are from later production runs that occurred after GB launched, right? As someone who'd like to add a TWD to his collection next year, I'm certainly going to be looking for the earlier runs as opposed to a 2016 run.

#764 6 years ago

Well... here's a happy ending. Just got my giant box to swap my ghosted SW play field. Only needed to provide my distro with some close ups of the inserts, he reached out to Stern, and a few weeks later this showed up.

I really think the whole ghosting language is there to prevent somebody from demanding a replacement if there's just a tiny isolated sliver. I've had those in the past and never asked for a replacement.

No idea what the threshold is, I had three major ones and another four slivers.

I was a little nervous when the ghosting started, but Stern stepped up... so kudos to them. As a result I decided to also grab an AC/DC premium vault, which goes to show that it's absolutely in their best interest to take care of their customers.

Can't wait to lug this thing home on the train

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#765 6 years ago

That gives me hope! Do you have to pack up your other one to them and send them via UPS or something? What's the procedure, there?

#766 6 years ago
Quoted from Doctor6:

That gives me hope! Do you have to pack up your other one to them and send them via UPS or something? What's the procedure, there?

Yup pretty simple. They send you an empty box. You disconnect a couple cables from the backbox, remove the playfield... stick in the box and drop off at UPS. Looks like you cover the cost of shipping it back to them and they cover the cost of shipping the new one to you.

In my case I reached out to my distributer and they handled all the back and forth. Best of luck!

#767 6 years ago
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:

Yup pretty simple. They send you an empty box. You disconnect a couple cables from the backbox, remove the playfield... stick in the box and drop off at UPS. Looks like you cover the cost of shipping it back to them and they cover the cost of shipping the new one to you.
In my case I reached out to my distributer and they handled all the back and forth. Best of luck!

There's molex connectors in the cabinet.

Go to 12:50 in the video:

#768 6 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

There's molex connectors in the cabinet.

Trekkie1978 thanks.

Yeah I wasn't sure if I should if I should

A: remove the connectors from the playfield and keep them in the backbox, sending back only the PF

or

B: Disconnect from backbox and send back with the wiring still attached to the underside of the playfield

Gave Chas a ring and he said go with B, as the new PF will come with the new wiring connected to the PF

I know you've dealt with this before, which one did you do? Did your PF come with new wiring you snaked back up into the head? Or did you do option A and hook up your pre-existing wiring back to the PF?

#769 6 years ago

Ah nevermind, I see what you're talking about. That's SUPER helpful, and makes perfect sense. Piece of cake. Thanks! And cheers to wiggy07 for the video

#770 6 years ago
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:

trekkie1978 thanks.
Yeah I wasn't sure if I should if I should
A: remove the connectors from the playfield and keep them in the backbox, sending back only the PF
or
B: Disconnect from backbox and send back with the wiring still attached to the underside of the playfield
Gave Chas a ring and he said go with B, as the new PF will come with the new wiring connected to the PF
I know you've dealt with this before, which one did you do? Did your PF come with new wiring you snaked back up into the head? Or did you do option A and hook up your pre-existing wiring back to the PF?

So far, I've only changed out Spider-Man VE playfield. Not the hardest thing to do, but it's a pain with all of the wiring going to the backbox.

I'm looking forward forward to changing out Ghostbusters and Game of Thrones...3 or 4 molex connectors and out comes the playfield.

IMO, I don't trust Stern to give you the correct wiring back if you take out too much. In my case with Spidey VE, they changed how 1 bundle of wires reconnect to the bundle in the cabinet. They never sent me the adapter with the new playfield. After I called Chas, few days later I had the adapter.

#771 6 years ago
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:

Yup pretty simple. They send you an empty box. You disconnect a couple cables from the backbox, remove the playfield... stick in the box and drop off at UPS. Looks like you cover the cost of shipping it back to them and they cover the cost of shipping the new one to you.
In my case I reached out to my distributer and they handled all the back and forth. Best of luck!

I would check the box for a return mailer. I had a return mailer for my KISS LE. My take is this. If you were told up front that your NIB would only have one ghosting sliver, there is no way the majority of people would purchase it. I only want what is advertised as that is what I paid for.

#772 6 years ago
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:

Well... here's a happy ending. Just got my giant box to swap my ghosted SW play field. Only needed to provide my distro with some close ups of the inserts, he reached out to Stern, and a few weeks later this showed up.
I really think the whole ghosting language is there to prevent somebody from demanding a replacement if there's just a tiny isolated sliver. I've had those in the past and never asked for a replacement.
No idea what the threshold is, I had three major ones and another four slivers.
I was a little nervous when the ghosting started, but Stern stepped up... so kudos to them. As a result I decided to also grab an AC/DC premium vault, which goes to show that it's absolutely in their best interest to take care of their customers.
Can't wait to lug this thing home on the train

That is a fantastic outcome. Great job and well done to your distro and Stern.

#773 6 years ago
Quoted from ExtremePinball:

MMR was made way before GB. It's fine. It's sitting in my 115 degree warehouse with a dozen other pins. None have ghosting inserts. All are pre-GB or non-stern, with the exception of my GBLE which has exactly 1 play on it since playfield replacement.

You have a MMR LE correct? IPDB indeed does say it came out in early 2015 but both MMR Standard and Ghostbusters came out in Q2 2016 if IPDB is to be believed.

Either way, there have definitely been reports of Star Treks from 2014 and The Walking Deads from 2015 with ghosting so I wonder if MMR (any version) was made with a different play field manufacturer or process.

#774 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

It's not a new thing. It's not a stern thing. it will happen to the other brands as well. If it has clearcoat, it can happen.
Hate ghosting? Buy early SS or EM's that are not clearcoated. Problem solved.

no, sorry.. ill just buy a 2001-2012 Stern.

#775 6 years ago
Quoted from capguntrooper:

I would check the box for a return mailer.

Hah good call, it was in the packing list on the side of the box. Cheers!

10
#776 6 years ago
Quoted from ExtremePinball:

GB Pro (19k+ plays) - At NYNY since NIB, 6 progressively ghosting inserts.
AS Pro (3k+ plays) - At NYNY since NIB, 6 progressively ghosting inserts.
SW Pro (2k+ plays) - At NYNY since NIB, 4 progressively ghosting inserts.

A quick apology for getting my figures wrong above. I've just returned from NYNY and examined my playfields again. It appears that AS only has 4 ghosting inserts.

Further, I apologize for overstating the number of plays on Star Wars, and understating the number ghosting inserts. As of 1 hour ago, Star Wars had only 1,943 plays, while the number of ghosting inserts has increased to nine (9).

This Public Service Announcement has been brought to you by....

Stern, where they skip that extra step to ensure that ghosting inserts are "normal".

#777 6 years ago
Quoted from ExtremePinball:

A quick apology for getting my figures wrong above. I've just returned from NYNY and examined my playfields again. It appears that AS only has 4 ghosting inserts.
Further, I apologize for overstating the number of plays on Star Wars, and understating the number ghosting inserts. As of 1 hour ago, Star Wars had only 1,943 plays, while the number of ghosting inserts has increased to nine (9).
This Public Service Announcement has been brought to you by....
Stern, where they skip that extra step to ensure that ghosting inserts are "normal".

I would expect 9 ghosting issues would qualify for a return, no?
Or are you talking about tiny slivers? Either way, I don't think anyone's going to suggest that 9 is acceptable.
Have you followed up with your distrib, or Stern?

#778 6 years ago
Quoted from ExtremePinball:

A quick apology for getting my figures wrong above. I've just returned from NYNY and examined my playfields again. It appears that AS only has 4 ghosting inserts.
Further, I apologize for overstating the number of plays on Star Wars, and understating the number ghosting inserts. As of 1 hour ago, Star Wars had only 1,943 plays, while the number of ghosting inserts has increased to nine (9).
This Public Service Announcement has been brought to you by....
Stern, where they skip that extra step to ensure that ghosting inserts are "normal".

I would be asking for two new playfields for sure. That is ridiculous!

#779 6 years ago

Stern cares less and less about their customers needs, so I care less and less about them. In my world the CUSTOMER express a need and after that the companies show up to offer their products and services. Not the other way around. Telling me that I should get use to this or that because it is the choice they made to cut corners doesnt fly with me. I tell you my needs if you cannot get that into consideration than talk is over and no more money for you. In my world I do not settle for less because it's more cost efficient for companies. Problem with pinball is that Stern has been in a monopoly position for way too long. I own 4 Sterns and love them but I can no longer feel confortable giving money to a company who thinks they choose for me and I will pay blindly and feel happy. I was making THEM a favor by spending my money on their expensive toys and to me that Batman super LE gimmick (tell us why you deserve to buy our machine) was the end in my book. At that point to me they admited they don't give a shit about their costumers. Maybe I should try that in a bar next time : tell me why I should let you have sex with me ? Pretty much garantee I'll be slapped and bashed a few times.

-4
#780 6 years ago
Quoted from Darth_Chris:

Stern cares less and less about their customers needs, so I care less and less about them. In my world the CUSTOMER express a need and after that the companies show up to offer their products and services. Not the other way around. Telling me that I should get use to this or that because it is the choice they made to cut corners doesnt fly with me. I tell you my needs if you cannot get that into consideration than talk is over and no more money for you. In my world I do not settle for less because it's more cost efficient for companies. Problem with pinball is that Stern has been in a monopoly position for way too long. I own 4 Sterns and love them but I can no longer feel comfortable giving money to a company who thinks they choose for me and I will pay blindly and feel happy. I was making THEM a favor by spending my money on their expensive toys and to me that Batman super LE gimmick (tell us why you deserve to buy our machine) was the end in my book. At that point to me they admited they don't give a shit about their costumers. Maybe I should try that in a bar next time : tell me why I should let you have sex with me ? Pretty much garantee I'll be slapped and bashed a few times.

There's nothing to prove that Stern cares less about customers. They included a clause in their warranty about ghosting playfields but the warranty already stated that play fields weren't covered at all. In my opinion, it's something their lawyer suggested, so that the next time a customer decides to be an asshole, Stern can simply tell them where to go.
GuerillaBiscuit just had a StarWars playfield replaced, because he had ghosted inserts, so they definitely have not simply decided to turn their backs on the customer.
To summarize this thread so far, 1 customer had a crappy shooter lane on his Metallica that maybe should have been replaced. The operator in Vegas appears to have numerous ghosted inserts on various machines. And there's a TWD on route, somewhere with a playfield that's sketchy. Maybe a problem, maybe not. Seems undetermined.
There are other problems that Pinsiders have reported, make no mistake. But when a thread like this is created and there are so few confirmations of current existing unresolved issues, I'm feeling pretty safe with my pin-dollars being spent at Stern.
You're welcome to your own opinion of course.

#781 6 years ago
Quoted from Darth_Chris:

Stern cares less and less about their customers needs, so I care less and less about them. In my world the CUSTOMER express a need and after that the companies show up to offer their products and services. Not the other way around. Telling me that I should get use to this or that because it is the choice they made to cut corners doesnt fly with me. I tell you my needs if you cannot get that into consideration than talk is over and no more money for you. In my world I do not settle for less because it's more cost efficient for companies. Problem with pinball is that Stern has been in a monopoly position for way too long. I own 4 Sterns and love them but I can no longer feel confortable giving money to a company who thinks they choose for me and I will pay blindly and feel happy. I was making THEM a favor by spending my money on their expensive toys and to me that Batman super LE gimmick (tell us why you deserve to buy our machine) was the end in my book. At that point to me they admited they don't give a shit about their costumers. Maybe I should try that in a bar next time : tell me why I should let you have sex with me ? Pretty much garantee I'll be slapped and bashed a few times.

If you don't feel that their product is worthy of your hard earned money than just don't buy their product, pretty simple really. No need to go into a big story about getting girls to have sex with you and stuff........which I totally do not understand how that relates to Stern by the way lol.

#782 6 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

If you don't feel that their product is worthy of your hard earned money than just don't buy their product, pretty simple really. No need to go into a big story about getting girls to have sex with you and stuff........which I totally do not understand how that relates to Stern by the way lol.

Guilty......feeling horny lol

#783 6 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

There's nothing to prove that Stern cares less about customers. They included a clause in their warranty about ghosting playfields but the warranty already stated that play fields weren't covered at all. In my opinion, it's something their lawyer suggested, so that the next time a customer decides to be an asshole, Stern can simply tell them where to go.
GuerillaBiscuit just had a StarWars playfield replaced, because he had ghosted inserts, so they definitely have not simply decided to turn their backs on the customer.
To summarize this thread so far, 1 customer had a crappy shooter lane on his Metallica that maybe should have been replaced. The operator in Vegas appears to have numerous ghosted inserts on various machines. And there's a TWD on route, somewhere with a playfield that's sketchy. Maybe a problem, maybe not. Seems undetermined.
There are other problems that Pinsiders have reported, make no mistake. But when a thread like this is created and there are so few confirmations of current existing unresolved issues, I'm feeling pretty safe with my pin-dollars being spent at Stern.
You're welcome to your own opinion of course.

Flawed analysis as the majority of pinball owners are NOT on pinside let alone voicing their issues. This thread is HARDLY a summary of issues and was only created to bring awareness to Sterns new manuals. No need for smoke and mirrors, read first post to get back on topic.

#784 6 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

I would expect 9 ghosting issues would qualify for a return, no?
Or are you talking about tiny slivers? Either way, I don't think anyone's going to suggest that 9 is acceptable.
Have you followed up with your distrib, or Stern?

Quoted from Who-Dey:

I would be asking for two new playfields for sure. That is ridiculous!

Nope. Don't care. I'm strictly an operator. All I'm doing is reporting FACTS, based in REALITY, that ANY pinsider can verify with their own eyes as I have 15 pins out in public for all to see.

Oh, and unless you quantify "sliver" with an objective form of measurement, it means as much to me as "a little bit pregnant".

As long as it ROIs and then some, when I decide to get rid of it, it's simply off to the auction.

I'm not criticizing, I'm not complaining, I'm not looking for solutions, nor am I looking for recourse.
I'm only providing FACTUAL information. How you use it is up to you.

#785 6 years ago
Quoted from ExtremePinball:

Nope. Don't care. I'm strictly an operator. All I'm doing is reporting FACTS, based in REALITY, that ANY pinsider can verify with their own eyes as I have 15 pins out in public for all to see.
Oh, and unless you quantify "sliver" with an objective form of measurement, it means as much to me as "a little bit pregnant".
As long as it ROIs and then some, when I decide to get rid of it, it's simply off to the auction.
I'm not criticizing, I'm not complaining, I'm not looking for solutions, nor am I looking for recourse.
I'm only providing FACTUAL information. How you use it is up to you.

Seems like as an operator, if Stern will (quickly) send you populated playfield replacements as recompense for bad ghosting this whole situation could work out OK. Route it for a year, then swap in a brand new playfield if you're "lucky" enough to have serious ghosting. A year of playfield/mech wear and tear instantly vanishes, and you get a bit more on resale down the line when the game is no longer earning well.

#786 6 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Seems like as an operator, if Stern will (quickly) send you populated playfield replacements as recompense for bad ghosting this whole situation could work out OK. Route it for a year, then swap in a brand new playfield if you're "lucky" enough to have serious ghosting. A year of playfield/mech wear and tear instantly vanishes, and you get a bit more on resale down the line when the game is no longer earning well.

my apologies for being a bit too vague regarding my attitude towards this.

So to clarify: NOPE. DON'T CARE.

#787 6 years ago
Quoted from ExtremePinball:

my apologies for being a bit too vague regarding my attitude towards this.
So to clarify: NOPE. DON'T CARE."</blockquote

So in all fairness...
You have received flawed goods, but have not even told Stern, providing them with the option of replacing it.

If that's correct, then it's certainly fair for a perspective buyer to be concerned that some pins have ghosted inserts, but let's also point out that at no time has Stern declared that they won't fix the issue.

If I were an operator and had issues, I'd ask Stern for a small rebate on my next pin purchase, offsetting the reduced value of the pin at time of sale. That would save them shipping costs too.

#788 6 years ago
Quoted from ExtremePinball:

my apologies for being a bit too vague regarding my attitude towards this.
So to clarify: NOPE. DON'T CARE.

I didn't think you cared! You keep buying the machines and making money off of them, so all is well. Just thought you might have an opportunity here to capitalize on the shift from operator-centric to home user-centric business for Stern. I can't imagine they'd have been doing populated playfield swaps back in the day when 80%+ of their customers were operators.

-1
#789 6 years ago
Quoted from capguntrooper:

Flawed analysis as the majority of pinball owners are NOT on pinside let alone voicing their issues. This thread is HARDLY a summary of issues and was only created to bring awareness to Sterns new manuals. No need for smoke and mirrors, read first post to get back on topic.

So then your argument is that many pinball machines produced by Stern are flawed, but not owned by Pinsiders, and THAT'S your argument?

Give me a break.

Again, you are entitled to whatever opinion you want. Buy or don't buy. But if you're going to make statements that Stern warrants bashing, MAYBE you could provide some evidence?
I read about your KISS playfield being replaced, and it's unfortunate that your drop target has the wrong stickers on them.
It's not what I would consider bash-worthy.
Nor is the dusty playfield comment that you complained about.

For what it's worth, GuerillaBiscuit received a replacement StarWars playfield from Stern, replacing the one he had with ghosting inserts. That speaks volumes to me and provides an indication of where they stand on customer service, despite the added paragraph. Lastly, the playfield was never warrantied in the first place.

So what we need to find is an owner (or owners) who have ghosted inserts, that Stern won't replace.
Then determine what their replacement threshold is. THEN determine if that's acceptable or not.

Until then, you're just stirring the drama pot.

#790 6 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Seems like as an operator, if Stern will (quickly) send you populated playfield replacements as recompense for bad ghosting this whole situation could work out OK. Route it for a year, then swap in a brand new playfield if you're "lucky" enough to have serious ghosting. A year of playfield/mech wear and tear instantly vanishes, and you get a bit more on resale down the line when the game is no longer earning well.

I feel this is what the new wording "ghosting is normal" is all about. Stern are looking to protect themselves from people getting a new playfield and then immediately selling the machine. Stern are more than happy to warrant their product to genuine buyers. They are looking to protect their core business customers and good for them. We will definitely continue to buy and enjoy every manufacturers product.

#791 6 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

I didn't think you cared! You keep buying the machines and making money off of them, so all is well. Just thought you might have an opportunity here to capitalize on the shift from operator-centric to home user-centric business for Stern. I can't imagine they'd have been doing populated playfield swaps back in the day when 80%+ of their customers were operators.

not sure about him, but if that happened to me I sure as shit would try to get a new playfield. Even ops eventually sell their machines and if were possible to add a few hundred to the value then why not. luckily all my stern's have no ghosting, I had some nasty chipping at the drain on my GOT but other then that. To be fair GOT has been out in public for a long time now, I also installed a drain protector to help and further damage from occurring.

#792 6 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

So in all fairness...
You have received flawed goods, but have not even told Stern, providing them with the option of replacing it.

Again: I'm not looking for solutions, nor am I looking for recourse. I'm no longer a collector. This is not a hobby to me. Stern already lost my collector business, and interest, with cost cutting, lack of QC, lack of code, and $15k money grabs. Most of which has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Quoted from Chambahz:

So in all fairness...
You have received flawed goods, but have not even told Stern, providing them with the option of replacing it.

My time is quite valuable, to me. Prior to routing a pinball machine, I spend 4-8 hours of my time in "bulletproofing", and dialing-in, every machine I operate. My GBLE had at least 6 or so ghosted inserts after less than 1,500 plays. I contacted my distributor and filed a claim, a few months later I received a box. I pulled the machine from location, removed the playfield, and hauled the box to UPS. I soon received a populated playfield with issues. Issues that weren't big enough to complain about, but enough that it was going to require MY TIME to fix them. And in case you missed it before.... My time is quite valuable, to me. This is not a hobby to me.

Quoted from Chambahz:

So in all fairness...
You have received flawed goods, but have not even told Stern, providing them with the option of replacing it.

Quoted from ExtremePinball:

I'm not criticizing, I'm not complaining, I'm not looking for solutions, nor am I looking for recourse.

I'm not interested in swapping playfields. I'm not interested in repairing pinball machines. I'm not interested in dealing with this low quality bullshit. I'm either making money, EFFICIENTLY, with this commercial arcade equipment, or I'll put my money to better use.

#793 6 years ago
Quoted from capguntrooper:

Flawed analysis as the majority of pinball owners are NOT on pinside let alone voicing their issues. This thread is HARDLY a summary of issues and was only created to bring awareness to Sterns new manuals. No need for smoke and mirrors, read first post to get back on topic.

mic (resized).jpgmic (resized).jpg

#794 6 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

So then your argument is that many pinball machines produced by Stern are flawed, but not owned by Pinsiders, and THAT'S your argument?
Give me a break.
Again, you are entitled to whatever opinion you want. Buy or don't buy. But if you're going to make statements that Stern warrants bashing, MAYBE you could provide some evidence?
I read about your KISS playfield being replaced, and it's unfortunate that your drop target has the wrong stickers on them.
It's not what I would consider bash-worthy.
Nor is the dusty playfield comment that you complained about.
For what it's worth, GuerillaBiscuit received a replacement StarWars playfield from Stern, replacing the one he had with ghosting inserts. That speaks volumes to me and provides an indication of where they stand on customer service, despite the added paragraph. Lastly, the playfield was never warrantied in the first place.
So what we need to find is an owner (or owners) who have ghosted inserts, that Stern won't replace.
Then determine what their replacement threshold is. THEN determine if that's acceptable or not.
Until then, you're just stirring the drama pot.

Soooooooo, me stating what I received from Stern is bashing? Me putting out awareness of Sterns new clause in manuals is Bashing? GOT IT! You are in the Stern Army, good for you. I in no way am bashing Stern, the fact that you think so because of my fact reporting lets everyone here know Stern can do no wrong! AGAIN READ TOP POST. Also read the rest of the thread for evidence instead of accusing me of bashing, heck I even did a video along with pics. I am not going to list the pics of my customers pins that were rejected for swaps because I am sure you will make excuses or say its not to bad and so on and so on and so on. Seriously though are pinsiders going to have to make an example out of you again? Last time you lost a bet and had to make a pinside donation. This time I am going to make you donate $100 to the Hurricane relief. PUT UP OR DRAIN THIS THREAD. $100 hurricane Harvey relief donation. What say you?

#795 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

I feel this is what the new wording "ghosting is normal" is all about. Stern are looking to protect themselves from people getting a new playfield and then immediately selling the machine. Stern are more than happy to warrant their product to genuine buyers. They are looking to protect their core business customers and good for them. We will definitely continue to buy and enjoy every manufacturers product.

Stern is trying to protect themselves form the greedy bastards that what to sell there machine and not take a bath because the playfield has ghosting? Really? You can't possible believe what you wrote, can you?

It's a CYA maneuver so they are less culpable. They don't have to do anything regarding ghosting as the playfield isn't covered under warrantee. I think it's great that they are actually replacing some playfields. That way they can be the "good guys" by replacing a part they don't even warrantee out of the goodness of their heat.

My guess is, sadly, it's jut a matter of time before they stop doing that and point to "ghosting is normal" an call it a day.

#796 6 years ago

I'll go check it out for myself this weekend Extreme.

Just hit Vegas for fantasy football drafts!

#797 6 years ago
Quoted from Lamprey:

Stern is trying to protect themselves form the greedy bastards that what to sell there machine and not take a bath because the playfield has ghosting? Really? You can't possible believe what you wrote, can you?
It's a CYA maneuver so they are less culpable. They don't have to do anything regarding ghosting as the playfield isn't covered under warrantee. I think it's great that they are actually replacing some playfields. That way they can be the "good guys" by replacing a part they don't even warrantee out of the goodness of their heat.
My guess is, sadly, it's jut a matter of time before they stop doing that and point to "ghosting is normal" an call it a day.

Stern looked after us and replaced a GBLE playfield for us. The other 2 replacement playfields, machines were immediately sold "as new with new playfield". So yes, I do believe exactly what I wrote. Most new pin buyers are not on Pinside so how would they know any different?

-4
#798 6 years ago
Quoted from capguntrooper:

Soooooooo, me stating what I received from Stern is bashing? Me putting out awareness of Sterns new clause in manuals is Bashing? GOT IT! You are in the Stern Army, good for you. I in no way am bashing Stern, the fact that you think so because of my fact reporting lets everyone here know Stern can do no wrong! AGAIN READ TOP POST. Also read the rest of the thread for evidence instead of accusing me of bashing, heck I even did a video along with pics. I am not going to list the pics of my customers pins that were rejected for swaps because I am sure you will make excuses or say its not to bad and so on and so on and so on. Seriously though are pinsiders going to have to make an example out of you again? Last time you lost a bet and had to make a pinside donation. This time I am going to make you donate $100 to the Hurricane relief. PUT UP OR DRAIN THIS THREAD. $100 hurricane Harvey relief donation. What say you?

Seriously? You're trying to say that you're not CONSTANTLY bashing Stern? You're one of the worst ones on Pinside for that.
And thank you for putting words in my mouth, but I've never said that Stern can do no wrong. What I've said that nearly always, they step up and fix their mistakes. We've seen them replace GuerillaBiscuit's playfield.
It's what I was hoping would continue to happen even after reading the new paragraph that you started this thread about.
I am hopeful that will continue but no, nobody knows if that will happen or not.

For rehashing the Ghostbusters playfield thread: you're pathetic.
Go back and re-read that thread. If you think I was picking a date out of thin air, just hoping that I was right, you're even more of a piece-of-work than I think you are. If you'll notice, there were approximately 2 (give or take) more ghostbuster playfield issues after the date I drew in the sand. Lucky? If you say so.

Regarding your comments about the $100 donation: you appear to have been a little too excited when typing that out. Not sure what you're trying to say. If you're trying to one-up me, just because you're donating to a good cause, be my guest. Donations are good. You're still a Stern-bashing troll, offering little evidence, and not even acknowledging Sterns good effort of replacing the ghosted playfield.

Either way, let's all hope that they continue to keep up this practice.

#799 6 years ago

I have had issues in the past with ghosting playfields. Stern has always swapped them out with a new playfield with no ghosting. For that reason I will continue to buy NIB Stern Pinball. However if I or anyone I know personally has a game with ghosting inserts and Stern does not make good on their purchase. I will be out for good. Sorry I cant do this playfield cracking fading ghosting thing. I take pride in my equipment. These things are way too expensive to be playing around with quality issues like that. Pinball manufactures admitted that they target a higher demographic with more disposable income. This makes sense because if you do not have money it is hard for you to be a customer. That said. You spend allot on an item that is allegedly top quality correct? So why are we even having this conversation. If they were to call themselves a value product and sell Pins for 3,495.00 perhaps we would overlook some imperfections. But at their prices and their whole we are the best...know one can make a better machine BS. These issues should not exist. Stern you cant have both! Charge high... Quality needs to be high.

I love stern games some of the finest out there happy SWLE customer. But I will never tolerate shafting a customer !

Stern Pinball

Stern Pinball not honoring a warranty for quality issue

#800 6 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Seriously? You're trying to say that you're not CONSTANTLY bashing Stern? You're one of the worst ones on Pinside for that.
And thank you for putting words in my mouth, but I've never said that Stern can do no wrong. What I've said that nearly always, they step up and fix their mistakes. We've seen them replace GuerillaBiscuit's playfield.
It's what I was hoping would continue to happen even after reading the new paragraph that you started this thread about.
I am hopeful that will continue but no, nobody knows if that will happen or not.
For rehashing the Ghostbusters playfield thread: you're pathetic.
Go back and re-read that thread. If you think I was picking a date out of thin air, just hoping that I was right, you're even more of a piece-of-work than I think you are. If you'll notice, there were approximately 2 (give or take) more ghostbuster playfield issues after the date I drew in the sand. Lucky? If you say so.
Regarding your comments about the $100 donation: you appear to have been a little too excited when typing that out. Not sure what you're trying to say. If you're trying to one-up me, just because you're donating to a good cause, be my guest. Donations are good. You're still a Stern-bashing troll, offering little evidence, and not even acknowledging Sterns good effort of replacing the ghosted playfield.
Either way, let's all hope that they continue to keep up this practice.

Pot meet Kettle. How can he be trolling if it's his thread? If you bothered to read the entirety of this thread and say use a search bar, you can find plenty of turned down pinside peeps. By all means show us the bashing comments you speak of? I must not be able to see them as I am not a super plus pinside member. When I order a premium its cause I had to save up a LONG time for it and I only want what I paid for. You keep saying "its your opinion man (in a weasel voice)" Yet you keep name calling and trolling legitimate complaints in other threads.

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