Thank you for posting. Maybe with several of us posting, people will start to listen.

Size of the insert comes into play as well. Seems bigger inserts have better chance to ghost. Lot more surface area to shift and a lot more wood touching the insert.

On GB its the two smallest inserts that are universally ghosting, the Tobin insert and the one right next to it.

Guessing its coming from the scoop eject hits.

those triangle arrows like to shift a ton too. Look on F14 and Fire. They are always raised up at least 1/8". Don't know why they like to move a ton. I think it's the shape, likes to squeeze out of it's spot like fingerpops. Where a round insert has even pressure all the way around.

It probably also does not help that there is very little wood between those two inserts.

When I think of the worst ghosting on older games the title that comes to mind for me is Getaway, seen so many with the triangles in a circle in the center of the playfield ghosted to shit.

Those ones seem different to me because most times you can fill that from the outer surface. Whereas most Stern ones look to be under the clear. I think it's a different problem on Getaway.

This thread is an interesting read. It is great to hear from some of the folks with experience finishing playfields (CaptainNeo, HEP).

I think that it should be expected that over time playfields have a higher probability of ghosting, however, the issue here is that NIB playfields are ghosting immediately and that shouldn't be expected or acceptable especially when this was not a prevalent issue previously. So something has changed for sure.

I have HUO LOTR, IM, Tron, SM, XM, WPT & MET and none of these have any signs of ghosting or clear cracking. Not a single pin has more than 3k plays and all are kept in my basement and do not experience any significant temperature or humidity fluctuations. If this did develop now I would not be upset (things do age), however, I would be more than slightly annoyed if a bought a NIB with these playfield issues. I am not one for rolling the dice so I have decided to only buy on the used-market so that I can see what I am getting.

Not really any different that researching buying a used car - some makes/models/vintages should be avoided. Always take 'em for a test drive and know what to look for.

that's why I think it's either a CAD issue. (insert holes not cut right) or an issue with the glue giving off gas long after the gluing process.

is it possible that part of the problem is that the inserts are forced into a hole that's tight to begin? look at the older EMs. when the inserts fall out of the holes due to the glue breaking down over 40+ years, they fit right back into the insert holes and you simply have to glue them back in place

and if I'm not mistake, the inserts are \ / wedge shaped instead of / \ shaped, so the tension placed on the inserts in one of an outward motion over time.

I think that without knowing the exact procedure, timing and type of glue being used, there are too many unknowns to really try and nail down the exact issue. one thing is for sure, whatever stern is doing, it's significantly different than what spooky, jjp and cpr are doing since they have significantly less (if not any) issues in this area

on EM's, the inserts have shrank so much, there is a huge gap between the wood and the plastic. even if the glue is holding up, it's so far away from the wood, there isn't a way it could even hold. Most EM's I can pop out inserts from the backside with just a little push with my finger.

Thank you very much for posting honest answers. This is what pinball needs to succeed.

It's ribbed for her pleasure

Ewww ...

wood grain causes the vertical lines you get down the field, if that's what you are referring to.

and yes it's for her pleasure as well.

Is that something one should worry about as far as causing problems down the road or os it just cosmetic? Also what about a spec of dust or dirt under the clear coat? Is that something that causes problems down the road?

Its cosmetic...as for the grains of sand they will eternally be sealed until the end of time...

That's what I would think as well. I don't know about till the end of time but at least as long as most of us here will be alive probably.

Stern sucks.

Now you'll excuse my while I take my hard earned American dollars to Walmart to buy some high quality goods made in Communist China.

It is very likely that Churchill mastered the art of tweaking the insert opening so that the inserts would not move.

It is common practice a supplier to have a 'tooling-drawing', that is not shared back with the customer. churchill was making playfields for ages, and they honed in on their practices and processes. These are their 'trade-secrets'.

Also, Churhill had learned how to properly 'aged' plywood so moisture-loss would be less of an impact on the insert fit over time. You can find photos of their facility with stacks of crates holding plywood, and you might find the video where they mention aging.

The timing of 'Ghosting' issues coincides with the change to Stern's new playfield supplier.

The new supplier just

Sweet!!

1/1 Limited Edition!!

rd

My star trek from earlier this year is already ghosting in a few few spots. It's frustrating for sure.

Yeah, I'll take the glass off and share some pics. If I wanted it fixed, who do I contact?

You will better off starting with your distributor.

Two of these are pretty obvious. One is just starting. And the black hole insert has some sort of scratches or fractures. I don't care as much about the last two, but the ghostong on the others is getting pretty bad. I've had the machine for right around 2 and a half months now. Not too pleased.

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What playfield number is this? Production date? Thanks

Let's see.... Both of my GB have ghosting inserts, my AS Pro has ghosting inserts, and my SW Pro has ghosting inserts. I specifically use the word "GHOSTING", as this phenomenon is progressively continuing as I type.

Therefore, I will only purchase a single pro.... If I think the title will ROI in a pre-determined amount of time. Unfortunately, I was wrong on AS. It has been a consistent earnings dud in a 10 pin lineup on the Las Vegas strip. While SW earned double what AS earned in the same time period. Yay!!! Something finally out earned IMVE.

So I finally reached the point where I personally just carry on and expect that any game I purchase from Stern will eventually have ghosted inserts. It's the new normal. They've not only stated it, they've gone ahead and proven it. So when I'm ready to sell my routed equipment, I'll only unload my used pins at public auction. Let the free market set the value.

Ghosting inserts IS the new normal on Stern pinball machines. The bottom line is that you can either accept it, as I have, or buy another brand.

Potential buyers are once again at a pinball crossroads of choice.

Know the differences of the definitions between a disclaimer, policy, warranty, and guarantee and what goes within these same mentioned terms regarding purchases. The terms are not created equal and will potentially effect end results.

Stern is not Costco.

Stern CYA Policy.jpg

Did you receive a LE playfield?

I just contacted the people I bought it from at pinballs.com . I guess we will see if they're willing or able to help.

let us know how that goes.
any worthwhile distributor should be pro-actively following up any issues their customers have with Stern.

I was just messaged from someone here who bought the same type of game from the same place. I'd like to assume that the distributor would like to nip this in the butt as well.

It was a LE playfield with sign and not a premium?
Correct?

What is the production date stamped on your playfield? Those enterprise/combo inserts are bad, have they got progressively worse over time?

He's only had the game for two months.

Doesn't matter when he got the pin, it could be fresh off the line or have come from a distributors stock sat in a warehouse for months.

Here's the info on that playfield

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It's not a new thing. It's not a stern thing. it will happen to the other brands as well. If it has clearcoat, it can happen.

Hate ghosting? Buy early SS or EM's that are not clearcoated. Problem solved.

Yeah it does matter because you asked him "Has it gotten progessively worse over time?" Kinda hard to gauge any kind of progression in two months, don't you think??

Which Stern game has the most ghosting? I know all new titles pretty much have ghosting on them, but is there one pin that's worse off than the rest?

Ghostbusters for sure and looks like the new Star Wars may have a considerable amount of playfields ghosting.

Nope, guy here in the UK with ghosting playfield his got worse within a matter of weeks, there have also been plenty of examples shown on pinside where the ghosting has progressed within a couple of months, always good to know the playfield production date when trying to gauge these things.

Thanks for getting the playfield number. Mine is 2198 of 2105. Hmmmm, going to keep a close eye on mine. 90 plays, had it for just over a week.