(Topic ID: 91103)

Stern new OS spotted and testing in AC/DC

By mnpinball

9 years ago


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  • 86 posts
  • 44 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by kbliznick
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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There are 86 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
-3
#51 9 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Everyone knows that. If you pay attention you might understand that my point was a general one utterly independent of the KISS concept. Maybe read a little more, and do less "look what I have and you don't" parading, it's childish. No one cares about your sekrit Jpop blog access and the nonexistent games you don't own.

Ughhh….terrible…..blah, blah, blah, non stop nothing……..ramp/middle of play field…….nothing….

-1
#53 9 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

If you pay attention you might understand that his KISS is nothing but an art mock up……….his "games" will be fantastic but then again I don't expect anybody who hasn't seen progress on MG and RAZA to get it….

I've seen it

He still hasn't made a game yet

-1
#54 9 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I've seen it
He still hasn't made a game yet

You haven't seen shit…… And you know nothing…..

-1
#55 9 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You haven't seen shit…… And you know nothing…..

I've seen it all. NDA is worthless. Secret club has been breached!!!!

-2
#56 9 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I've seen it all. NDA is worthless. Secret club has been breached!!!!

No wonder why you are so jealous and butt hurt!

#57 9 years ago

Does the new OS support stereo sound?

#58 9 years ago

Are new AC/DC's coming with the new boardset yet?

#59 9 years ago

There is something unsettling knowing that you as the owner are becoming less able to repair everything your own. As someone that can virtually repair anything now (through use of most of the resources plus my knowledge to date), I'm not sure I want to go in this direction, given the costs to repair these boards or buy new ones. It's not about change, it's about part of this hobby is the ability that keeping them full maintained is well within your means, if you so desire.

There is no guide from Clay on Whitestar/SAM, will likely not be much for WOZ, MMR or these new board sets from anyone too. This will push those of us that can fully figure it out to such a small percentage.

I totally get why companies are going this way obviously, as it's cheaper, but of course with Stern this will somehow turn into another head scratching price increase as well.

But in the end, home weekend warriors are soon not going to be able to properly maintain our machines, and I don't like being at the mercy of whether Stern/JJP/PPS will stay in business forever, given these pricetags.

#60 9 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

I totally get why companies are going this way obviously, as it's cheaper, but of course with Stern this will somehow turn into another head scratching price increase as well.

I disagree. If you look at their board, several of the chips they use aren't even available in through-hole. Surface mount isn't just about price. There are a lot of engineering advantages to surface mount. You are so focused on this particular board being SMD, you haven't really looked at what's going on.

The board pictured is just the CPU board, not the driver board. I don't see any High Voltage or drive transistors on the pictured board. I also don't see any batteries. The communication between the CPU board and driver boards is presumably done via some type of serial bus over one of the CAT5/6 cables.

Without batteries and no drive transistors on this board, what are you expecting to have to repair? Seems to me like acid damage, blown transistors, and blown logic chips are 99% of the MPU repairs, and none of those seem like they will be an issue with this CPU board.

We have yet to see the driver board where the drive transistors sit, so I can't claim that it's through hole. Even if it's not, if you can solder a through hole transistor, you can solder a surface mount one.

tl;dr - I think you are worrying for nothing.

#61 9 years ago

I really hope this doesn't burst any bubbles but this can not/ will not do HD video. The proc isn't fast enough unless there is some kind of gpu offload which there isn't obviously. You may be able to get 5fps at 720 but nothing more. You are more likely going to see color stills and overlays and that will be your "LCD". This device is used as the engine for some auto manufacturers navigation units. Anyone ever see a nav natively and smoothly move @ 30fps why cycling through maps or menu's?

#62 9 years ago

This will make board work a PITA later down the road or they better be cheap so you can toss and replace.

#63 9 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

I really hope this doesn't burst any bubbles but this can not/ will not do HD video. The proc isn't fast enough unless there is some kind of gpu offload which there isn't obviously. You may be able to get 5fps at 720 but nothing more. You are more likely going to see color stills and overlays and that will be your "LCD". This device is used as the engine for some auto manufacturers navigation units. Anyone ever see a nav natively and smoothly move @ 30fps why cycling through maps or menu's?

Have you considered the possibility that the Atmel isn't driving the display?

Sure, it's probably driving the DMD, but that's easy sauce.

#64 9 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

But in the end, home weekend warriors are soon not going to be able to properly maintain our machines, and I don't like being at the mercy of whether Stern/JJP/PPS will stay in business forever, given these pricetags.

Necessity is the mother of learning, as well as invention. If the crap really hits the fan, people will figure it out...I might be on the front lines of that in 10 years, who knows.

Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Have you considered the possibility that the Atmel isn't driving the display?

No, he's too busy making propaganda because he knows damn well that the screen isn't going to keep anyone from buying a pin, no matter what the tech is, or how it runs. It's another case of the superior tech failing because nobody CARES. Betamax...better tech. Nobody cared. HD-DVD....better tech. Nobody cared. HD Video on a pinball....better tech. Nobody will care. Stern's obviously looked at their numbers since WOZ came out, and watched a thousand plus people sign up to buy a game that costs 8000 bucks that is dot-matrix based and 20 years old....

#65 9 years ago

cannot find a LAN !?!?!?

LAN for:
High Score Tournament

LAN for:
If a error pops up - send the operator a email
that would be really great !!!!
most times machines have errors and in the arcade and nobody cares
and the operator gets no cash

#66 9 years ago

I think there's other video driving components on that board, the atmel just plays traffic cop for what to play. The HDMI connection isn't even populated on that AC DC board Likely only driving a certain pixel count on a dmd sized display. I like this platform as it looks very lean and purpose built with no OS to deal with, no full blown pc, lower power requirements. Just don't see a down side really.

#67 9 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Necessity is the mother of learning, as well as invention. If the crap really hits the fan, people will figure it out...I might be on the front lines of that in 10 years, who knows.

No, he's too busy making propaganda because he knows damn well that the screen isn't going to keep anyone from buying a pin, no matter what the tech is, or how it runs. It's another case of the superior tech failing because nobody CARES. Betamax...better tech. Nobody cared. HD-DVD....better tech. Nobody cared. HD Video on a pinball....better tech. Nobody will care. Stern's obviously looked at their numbers since WOZ came out, and watched a thousand plus people sign up to buy a game that costs 8000 bucks that is dot-matrix based and 20 years old....

Propaganda? That's just tech common sense. And if there is a supplemental board of sorts driving video then there is an OS as the video needs to be handled. It certainly won't be raw because them it definitely won't be able to be processed. Btw frax your argument holds no water. If they are doing so well on 20. Year old tech why bother investing time and resources in a new platform to support video at all. You just contradicted your own statement.

#68 9 years ago

Why does Stern invest in anything? Think about it. If they end up with a cheaper way to manufacture games and charge the same amount of money or more, they will.

DMD's are not *going to exist*. The manufacturers of them -are- going to quit making them. Stern doesn't have a choice. LCD screen are the same price or less for the size. LED DMDs are expensive as crap and there's no real way to get the price down on them because nobody uses the stupid things except for pinball producers. In addition, you have all the nitpickers bitching about the grids not lining up on the ones that use LED blocks, so you're dealing with additional issues on that front. LCD solves that. LCD is readily available. LCD has many suppliers that Stern can shop around and get the best price for the volume they use. It's really hard to mis-align a LCD and if anyone has half a brain cell there will be software adjustments to move the video alignment assuming the screen is slightly larger than the hole.

I agree that it's highly unlikely that Stern will invest the time, coding, or money to drive HD video....but you know what? I don't give a crap. Ops might...that might be bad for Stern if the video actually draws someone in that wouldn't otherwise pay any attention to a pin, and they skimp there. But from a player/home owner perspective, and I've played quite a bit of WOZ, I just DON'T look at the screen while playing for anything other than if I need a status update. The game does a great job of telling me what I need or have active with the playfield lights IMO. Game is fun, but the screen is largely irrelevant...the game itself obsoleted that one.

You tell me... the playfield going to be as "expressive" on Hobbit? Will I NEED to look at the screen? Stern knows they have to move to non-DMD to at least put up the appearance that they're keeping up with tech. Much like many other things with Stern, I don't expect them to make more than the minimum amount of effort required to look like something has been done...but in this case, I think they might just get away with it. We'll see.

#69 9 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Are new AC/DC's coming with the new boardset yet?

Does anyone know the answer to this question?

#70 9 years ago
Quoted from jathomp22:

Does anyone know the answer to this question?

Not as of 2 weeks ago.

#71 9 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

If they are doing so well on 20. Year old tech why bother investing time and resources in a new platform to support video at all.

Probably cheaper to do so?

#72 9 years ago

All I can say is I hope it is not like WOZ and we have a backglass.

#73 9 years ago
Quoted from musketd:

All I can say is I hope it is not like WOZ and we have a backglass.

WOZ has a backglass. Painted and mirrored.

LTG : )™

#74 9 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

WOZ has a backglass. Painted and mirrored.
LTG : )™

With a big transparent hole in the middle. ;P

#75 9 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

With a big transparent hole in the middle. ;P

LCD has to go somewhere.

Unless you use a tiny one.

LTG : )™

-1
#76 9 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

LCD has to go somewhere.
Unless you use a tiny one.
LTG : )™

Tiny....like the depth of this conversation?

#77 9 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Without batteries and no drive transistors on this board, what are you expecting to have to repair? Seems to me like acid damage, blown transistors, and blown logic chips are 99% of the MPU repairs, and none of those seem like they will be an issue with this CPU board.

If it's electronic, it will fail at some point. Again, there likely won't be much in the way of the system guides out there now, which means for most of us, not only would we have to completed upgrade and learn how to repair SMT (which can be much more tedious), we would also have to figure out from scratch what we are actually trying to repair/replace.

While I have long said the new systems will likely eliminate issues such as the battery, HV, GI and power connector issues common to many systems, EVERY new system seems to develop their own new set of issues. No manufacturer of today will have more thought put into their systems then Williams vested at the time and they still couldn't perfect a flawless board set, and thus, their will be new issues/flaws in every new design - how easy can I deal with those as opposed to the 3-4 I know very well now, and can swap parts/boards with from what I have now?

#78 9 years ago

You've got a valid point about the parts donor issue..yes, we're gonna be scarce on spare parts and paying out the wazoo for replacements for a while, as I'm sure was the case with ANY new board system in it's day. That shouldn't really be all that surprising, but it's definitely an annoyance.

You're just either going to have to not buy games with the new system for a while, or have faith that people are going to help all of us out. Personally, I can't wait to learn SMT. I don't have the money to buy the stuff I need to do it right now, but I look forward to adding to my skillset. It's the same as anything else....either you invest in the equipment and knowledge to do it yourself, you pay someone else for their skill and knowledge, or you wait until Tech Jesus updates his/her site and gives out applicable info for free......choose your own adventure.

It's not like early adopters of EVERY tech haven't been the ones to pave the "useability road" for everyone else....this will be no different. I'm just glad that I have the mindset to learn this kind of stuff. Ain't no stupid tech gonna keep me down.

#79 9 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Necessity is the mother of learning, as well as invention. If the crap really hits the fan, people will figure it out...I might be on the front lines of that in 10 years, who knows.

No, he's too busy making propaganda because he knows damn well that the screen isn't going to keep anyone from buying a pin, no matter what the tech is, or how it runs. It's another case of the superior tech failing because nobody CARES. Betamax...better tech. Nobody cared. HD-DVD....better tech. Nobody cared. HD Video on a pinball....better tech. Nobody will care. Stern's obviously looked at their numbers since WOZ came out, and watched a thousand plus people sign up to buy a game that costs 8000 bucks that is dot-matrix based and 20 years old....

HD-DVD was better tech than what? Surely you don't mean it was better than Blu-Ray? Both formats used the same codecs. Blu-Ray discs contained more storgae pure layer. More storage means more data, less compression, and better picture.

#80 9 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

No manufacturer of today will have more thought put into their systems then Williams vested at the time and they still couldn't perfect a flawless board set

The Williams board sets were garbage from a reliability standpoint.

From not fusing the bridge rectifiers, to power resistors getting so hot they unsolder themselves, to all the WPC jumpers that need to be soldered in, or just the GI overheating problems that plagued Williams to the end - so much poor engineering.

Nowadays, software simulators assist component choices much better than some half-assed guy with a slide rule 20 years ago.

I look forward to some modern day engineering.

#81 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The Williams board sets were garbage from a reliability standpoint.
From not fusing the bridge rectifiers, to power resistors getting so hot they unsolder themselves, to all the WPC jumpers that need to be soldered in, or just the GI overheating problems that plagued Williams to the end - so much poor engineering.
Nowadays, software simulators assist component choices much better than some half-assed guy with a slide rule 20 years ago.
I look forward to some modern day engineering.

Vid, always a joy to watch your cut trough the rose-colored BS about Williams that exists on these posts.

#82 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Just get rid of the backbox alltogether

Then where will you guys and gals mount all your aftermarket toppers?

#83 9 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Then where will you guys and gals mount all your aftermarket toppers?

In the can on the side of my garage.

#84 9 years ago

Here is a pic of a driver board from "The Pin." Looking at it now it looks to me the drive transistors are surface mount - but discreet and probably can be user replaced.
pindriver.jpgpindriver.jpg
Parker

#85 9 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

There is something unsettling knowing that you as the owner are becoming less able to repair everything your own. As someone that can virtually repair anything now (through use of most of the resources plus my knowledge to date), I'm not sure I want to go in this direction, given the costs to repair these boards or buy new ones. It's not about change, it's about part of this hobby is the ability that keeping them full maintained is well within your means, if you so desire.
There is no guide from Clay on Whitestar/SAM, will likely not be much for WOZ, MMR or these new board sets from anyone too. This will push those of us that can fully figure it out to such a small percentage.
I totally get why companies are going this way obviously, as it's cheaper, but of course with Stern this will somehow turn into another head scratching price increase as well.
But in the end, home weekend warriors are soon not going to be able to properly maintain our machines, and I don't like being at the mercy of whether Stern/JJP/PPS will stay in business forever, given these pricetags.

Exactly. My AC/DC has been dead for a month cause it thinks its in the wrong country. Been at stern for 10 days with no word on it.

#86 9 years ago
Quoted from marlboroa:

Exactly. My AC/DC has been dead for a month cause it thinks its in the wrong country. Been at stern for 10 days with no word on it.

Did you check the 12V fuse?

Had this happen on a Tron LE. A short in the new LED topper blew the 12 fuse. Game booted but the DMD display said that it was in the wrong country, was getting ready to get on the phone to Stern when I saw the unlit LED on the driver board and the blown fuse.

Another odd one that is an easy fix is if the game says the wrong driverboard is attached. Turns out it was a loose ribbon cable between the MPU and driver board.

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