1) components prices / import shipping have risen.
2) demand is bigger then supply.
3) people keep buying no matter how much they increase the price.

Would be a good idea if they used the highest quality of products and made the number of orders placed. Otherwise price will always go up. Haven’t you seen GameStop stock? Haha

Or maybe just accept the artificial scarcity of Limited Editions.

Stern isn’t going to change what is clearly working for them.

They might keep raising the LE pricing incrementally until they hit “the ceiling” or just make more of them.

If you don’t like the “LE model” then why does everybody want one? To flip to other dummies?

You can just buy a premium or pro. Problem with that idea is that they keep raising those prices as well.

But Stern doesn’t want to kill the Golden Goose and that Goose is laying Golden eggs 24/7 right now.

$25k EHOH editions? I don’t see those being flipped.

You also don’t want to wake up the buying masses out of our buying drunken stupor's and start asking the common sense question. “What the F are we all doing, we are insane”.

Maybe distros can start taking crypto currency for Stern LEs. Or NFTs. An artificially scarce bartering system. At least you can play the LE.

What’s artificial about it?
They make a set number of them and that’s it.
Seems pretty straight forward to me.

That said, I normally buy a premium because I don’t care to pay the extra cash for an LE when the gameplay is normally the same.

I disagree with the price increase. I have purchased two LEs for our home and would not want them at 5k more each. The better solution is allow one week of preorders after gameplay reveal for LEs.

The reason also LE are more popular than ever these days is because it take so much time before we can get the Premium. People who would usually buy a premium will buy a LE and not wait a year before playing the game. Again because demand is too strong for offer.

This idea is a wonderful solution. Stern could take orders for LEs for a week, or even a month, whatever. Pay up front, in full. Build only as many units as were prepaid, and call it done. The LE would then be limited in the sense that only X amount were produced during X time. Flipping would be minimized because everyone who wants one and can afford to pay up front will get one.

Supply and demand. Supply chains are messed up. Companies cannot meet demand by making enough games fast enough. That means people not willing to wait will overpay for games. Prices go up.

Prices will continue to increase until all this is sorted out. Then they will continue to increase, just not as fast.

Have another drink…it’s Christmas Day!

No.

Totally agree, this LE thing is complete bollocks, meaningless.
Just allow me to buy a premium and upgrade with a mirrored back glass FFS.
I can Powdercoat it the way I want to.

That’s a good point. Stern controls the order and flow to max profits and create the FOMO gotta have it now moment.

Some of it might be unintentional but it’s working out for them. They have been masterful in executing their pricing strategy.

They know they have to leave some chicken on the bone (“value”) not just for the flippers but also the HUO guys that don’t keep a game forever.

Buying an LE for $15k today and selling it for $9k two years later would be a disaster scenario for Stern I think. And they know that.

I’m guessing they will keep increasing the number of LEs and small price increases along the way.

Face the truth, they have the pinball community by the balls, and not the silver ones

Maybe they do 199 CEs in the future for $25k

And increase the number of LEs to 1,250, like CGC, and keep going from there

Bastardizing the entire LE concept won’t end well

3DDDF39F-74AA-40BD-BE30-BD273344FD4C.gif

Nope. Wrong solution.

The solution is easy. Just up the numbers on LE machines. 2000-3000. Still technically “limited” but nobody misses out.

JJP “limited” production of GNRLE to 5000. Prices are all around the same as new. (See pic below)

Compare that to GZ LE which was 1000 machines. Now selling for considerably more.

Which leads to the obvious conclusion - 1000 isn’t enough to meet demand, and Stern are leaving $100,000s on the table.

rd
2EFD772A-544D-48DA-831F-AEF8078E5951 (resized).jpeg

It's human nature. If nobody misses out, it's technically not limited.

Stern method is a perfect way how to maximize the profit for long term, even for the next unknown title. If LE is easily available, then there is no hype and fight for LE's.

I never really get.involved in the middle of anything on this forum but I'd like to say something.

Please don't use the word
retard or retarded.
They are outdated antiquated and most importantly offensive.

I've worked in the special needs community for over 20 years and those words have no place in any decent conversations.

So be more intelligent and use some different words to get your meaning across.

Thank you.

Thankfully they haven't hit $90K yet.

LTG : )

As a general rule of thumb, let’s not encourage the manufacturers to raise their prices anymore by letting them know how much many of us (not me) are willing to pay. I thought this would be stating the obvious, but I guess not.

I'd agree with you if it would also increase Premiums, which it would.

Is it still ok to use those words in mechanics?

I think you are looking at it the wrong way. If you want to hate someone, hate the people that are paying the scalpers price. Those people are the problem and not the scalpers.

At a certain price point, I think you would be correct. However, the issue I have with your solution is that the people that are the real losers are us (the consumers) and the winners are the manufacturers. I think it’s always best for consumers to keep the prices low. There are LE buyers that aren’t scalpers. Why punish them?

I just think the best solution is to not pay scalper prices but, at least for the time being, that’s not going to happen. So, it’s probably best to shrug your shoulders, move on and enjoy what you have.

So the problem is scalpers buying games and selling them at prices way higher than MSRP...and your solution is to just have Stern raise their prices up to what the scalpers are charging so that everyone gets to pay scalper prices. BRILLIANT!!!

I think you overestimate what percentage of games are going to scalpers. Maybe 10% ?

As iceman44 said, Stern will gradually increase the price and quantity until they hit the ceiling. Once we all start losing 2-3k on an LE purchase demand will drop off pretty quickly.

Sure there is. JJP have sold thousands of GNR LE machines. CGC sold 1250 LEs in a day. Stern can sell 2-3000 GZ LEs no problem. They sell each title for years. People would buy a Stranger Things LE today for $9500 if they could.

New hot title - everyone wants one first. The orders flood in. And if you make a bunch of them like JJP, the orders keep on rolling in.

Yeah but in this case, raising price doesn’t work. There are 100s of “my wallet is bigger than yours” dudes in this hobby. If they were $25,000 each, and 1000 were sold out, somebody will still be flipping them for $30,000.

To kill the flipper market, supply needs to be greater than demand. If there are more buyers than sellers, you’ll always get price inflation. Whatever the item is. If you can still buy a new LE for $10k, who’s going to pay $11k for a new one? See my GNR picture above.

rd

Everyone agrees the scalping sucks. Unless the manufacturers do larger quantities it won't end.

I've been buying used machines for 33 years, though, I can say this pretty confidently. People who paid way over value to have something NOW will feel some pain when they do try to sell. Hype does die. Machines do become dead earners. No exceptions. Its just a question of time.

If you think your pinball is going to increase in value every year forever like real estate you're in for some pain. You can ask any price you want. Finding suckers to pay you for what was hot 8 or 10 years ago but forgotten about today might not be as easy as you think.

Strike while it's hot or hang on to them and take the offer for 40% of what you paid.

Dunno about that.

That always used to be the case (you’d lose money after the box was opened) and people still bought them.

Lots of money in this hobby. Stern just released a $7000 Elvira with $200 of cosmetic upgrades and 199 people snapped them up at $20,000 - $30,000.

If ever anyone needed proof how much “silly money” is in this hobby, that proved it.

rd

The other thing we have to keep in mind is since production does not meet demand and takes a long time before there is enough game in the market. People have no problem jumping on the LE train as soon announcement is made. Even without having a clue what the game offers. Look at guns and roses for example. A lot of people did not like the game and if it was 2012 they would get stuck with a game they dont like. Or loose money to get rid of it. Now in 2021 since there is so few machines the few first months the LE owner can try the game and if he does not like it, let it go to someone else who will try to see if it's a good game without loosing money. In fact quite the other way around, he will make money out of it. So we should all buy LE in that scenario because there is almost no chance that you would get stuck with something you dont like and loose money. I think that's pretty much how the flippers see it. Of course they never got stuck with games hard to move like avengers in 2013 or transformers.

I'm not bashing any games (guns, avengers or transformers). I bought an avengers LE in 2013 and loved it but I know this game was hard to move and does not get much love.

When you play at the casino and have no chance to loose if you flip it as soon you are done with it. Why would anyone not play that game from one release to another. No chance to get burn these days.

Just the way I see it

This thread in 2 years:

“JJP should start making standard editions again”

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Lighten up Francis.

I agree. Pinside forums sink to some serious lows far to often.

Does any one think prices are this high Because the federal reserve flooded the market with cash to stop the economy from crashing during covid. And once we have to start paying back all this debt the economy is gonna collapse and we and gonna see something like the Great Depression. Or am I just crazy.

No. I don't.

The people that received $1200 stimulus checks and unemployment benefits in 2020 and early 2021 aren't the same people that are shelling out $15k for LE pinball machines. And those extra benefits and payments stopped quite a while ago..
The stock market and tax code have more to do with it than stimulus money. Also more people are looking towards entertainment in their homes since the start of the pandemic.The other thing to factor in is that pinball is much bigger than just the U.S. pinball prices are high in other Countries too.

What the F is wrong with you, don’t give them any ideas!!

Theres a whole generation of newbs that don't know what it's like to lose money on a pin - new or used.

Much of this current Stern LE hype is due to the fact that most buyers are just getting on the list for an LE before it's even anounced with the knowledge that if the game is mediocre, or they dont like it, they'll be able to sell it (used) for what they paid, and in most cases for substantially more. I know plenty of newbs that literally are on the distro list for every LE regardless.

I'd argue what's happening now with panic HWN/UM sale is the "buy all LE's regardless because I know I wont lose money" speculator newbs bailing early because theyre shit scared of losing $1-2k on resale later.

Stern or the Distros should just take the highest bidders. Some titles will go higher than others, let the market decide.

I don’t know RD, I see no flippers on that $25k offering of EHOH. How could there be really? Not sure they all got “snapped up” yet.

No doubt there is a ton of $$ in this hobby but when they do hit the ceiling, and maybe they did on the special edition EHOH like they did on Beatles, both looking like money losers, the money flow spigot could dry up somewhat. Yeah I know, the road goes on forever and the party never ends

I think the money losing days from retail NIB purchases are right around the corner again, not much $$, but some. And that’s probably a good thing.

Either way, I just hope Stern, JJP and all of them keep making great games we want to buy.