(Topic ID: 286929)

Stern MPU 200 Flickering control lamps issue

By 80spit

3 years ago


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  • 33 posts
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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Quench
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    Stern_ROM_list.pdf (PDF preview)
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    #3 3 years ago
    Quoted from 80spit:

    just looking for some guidance where to go next

    Post some clear high resolution pictures front and back (preferably taken outdoors in shaded daylight) of the MPU board.

    Are the flickering controlled lamps LEDs or incandescents?

    You'll need a logic probe to diagnose this.

    Your problem sounds familiar:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/big-game-mpu-200-issues#post-5616331

    #7 3 years ago

    Ok, so you're not dealing with battery corrosion.

    How about a full frontal picture of the board?

    Per the thread I linked above with the same symptom as yours, what does your logic probe indicate at pins 3, 4, 5 and 6 of U15?

    #10 3 years ago

    Without checking a board here, your readings look reasonable.
    Pin 4 of U15 should be pulsing which happens upstream via pin 10 of U19.

    The output of U15 at pin 3 is called the "VUA-Ø2" signal. It's used for timing when devices on the MPU board are accessed. Check the state of it dowstream at each destination:

    U10 pin 25
    U11 pin 25
    U7 pin 10
    U7 pin 13
    U17 pin 10
    Non-banded side of diode CR52

    They should all indicate the same as U15 pin 3.

    #13 3 years ago

    Any chance you have an oscilloscope? Might need to get a good look at that signals waveform.

    BTW, your logic probe readings indicate your logic probe might be set on CMOS. If so, please change it to TTL.

    In the mean time, can you probe the following and let us know what you get:
    U17 pin 10
    U17 pin 9
    U17 pin 8
    U8 pin 19
    U13 pin 19
    U14 pin 1 through to pin 7 inclusive

    And have you got an EPROM programmer? Would love to get a copy of that V2.0 U2 ROM..

    #15 3 years ago

    Sorry to be a pain, can you redo the U14 readings with your probe set to CMOS? It's a CMOS chip and some of those U14 results look a little off.

    I would expect in the order of flow:
    U14 pins 6 & 7 = high with pulse
    U14 pins 5 & 4 = low with pulse
    U14 pins 3 & 2 = high with pulse
    U14 pin 1 = low with pulse

    Your U17, U8 and U13 results look reasonable.

    Can you dump that U2 EPROM and tell me what checksum you get in your EPROM programmer software?

    #17 3 years ago

    So those results are pretty much what's expected. No clues have been revealed yet.
    With regard to the lamps flickering, does it happen all the time or does it come and go? Does the game intermittently reset within a few minutes if you leave it in attract mode?
    Is there any background you are aware of with this MPU board? i.e. did you get it this way or did it it start failing in your possession, and what work has been done on it? I can see U10/U11 sockets are new, U7 U8 and U13 are replaced.

    Quoted from 80spit:

    My eprom, 2716 check sum is 0001F3DE

    The widely available U2 ROM has a checksum of 000208DE. You have something different and the Stern documents (in German attached) indicate there are two Galaxy ROM versions. They indicate your U6 ROM will be different in conjunction with your new U2 version.
    It would be great if you could dump the four ROMs so we can have this new version available for use/preservation.
    Thanks.
    Stern_ROM_list.pdfStern_ROM_list.pdf

    #19 3 years ago
    Quoted from 80spit:

    All the control lamps flicker all the time in attract mode and when in game play, reset usually only happens when the ball drains and hits the out hole.

    Do you by chance have something (frequency counter) to measure the frequencies at the Zero Crossing Detector and Display Interrupt Generator?
    Pin 18 of U10 and Pin 40 of U11 respectively. Should read 120Hz and 400Hz.

    Quoted from 80spit:

    As far as the Roms, I have never tried to read the mask roms, guessing its doable, Ill look into it.

    If your programmer supports 2532 EPROMs can you try reading it as a 2532? The file will be double size but hopefully one half will contain the data.
    If it doesn't produce valid data then yeah a converter needs to be made to either swap pins 21 and 18 to make it 2716 readable, or connect pin 21 to pin24 (5 volts) to ensure it will read proper as a 2532.

    #21 3 years ago

    If you go into lamp test mode, do the lamps flicker when they flash on?
    Are you getting wrong lamps coming on during attract mode / game play?

    With your logic probe, what does it indicate at pin 1 on any of the 24 pin chips on the lamp driver board in attract mode? From memory it should be Low with Pulse.

    #23 3 years ago

    Let us know when you get the oscilloscope ready and post a picture of it so get some idea of what you have.

    Looking at your attract mode video, there are abnormalities with respect to the top saucer lamps, drop target lamps and bonus lamps chase sequence - sometimes they stall/speed up.
    Compare to here to TNT's video where those lamp sequence is smooth:

    This is yours:

    #28 3 years ago
    Quoted from 80spit:

    got to snooping around with my DVM on diode test and poked around U14 comparing readings to a good board and they were totally off, Socketed it out and put in a new 14572U in and its working perfect,

    Great to hear you found it!
    Can you remember which U14 pins were off? May give us a better understanding of the issue.

    #31 3 years ago

    Thanks, if you still have the machine, any chance you can logic probe these pins on the new chip?

    U14 pins 6 and 7
    U14 pins 4 and 5

    Your original results were slightly suspicious so I'd be very curious if they indicate differently now.

    Quoted from 80spit:

    I know this is probably not the right way to check these, but in the past I have found many bad components just using my DVM and comparing it to a known working source

    This is an effective approach, I have done it in the past mostly with the 4543 decoder chips on the display boards. It's a way to determine if a missing display segment is caused by a bad output on the chip (which can be easily compared to other outputs on the same chip).

    #33 3 years ago

    Cheers, so pins 4 and 5 have changed from having a very fast pulse to just a pulse.

    U14 pin 7 is connected to pin 6 so should have had the same reading, but we'll just put that down to a bad connection on your logic probe when taking the reading.

    Thanks.

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