(Topic ID: 306097)

Stern Meteor F4 fuse flippers

By Lambecka

2 years ago


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    #1 2 years ago

    Stern Meteor
    After restauration MPU and replacing rectifier board, starting up the machine and everything looks fine. Lights bumbers ,tragets works well.
    Exept, when using the flippers direct the fuse F4 blownout. Checked wiring onderplayfield and they ate acc schematic. Also the three flipper coils were replaced.

    Any suggestion where to look at??

    #3 2 years ago
    Quoted from Xenon75:

    I would check the wiring to the flipper coils and the EOS switches. It sounds like something was reversed when the new coils were installed.

    Already checked the wiring under playfield but seems to be ok.

    #5 2 years ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    Clearly not since the fuse blows. Stern schematics are often wrong.
    If all the regular solenoids fire properly you've got the flippers wired incorrectly - the same wires provide the power to all the solenoids (the under PF fuse is just for the non-flipper solenoids, and that's where the power feed splits off for the flippers)

    Ok wil double check
    But can it be on the driver solenoid board in back box??

    #6 2 years ago
    Quoted from Lambecka:

    Ok wil double check
    But can it be on the driver solenoid board in back box??

    Double checked wiring of flippersolenoids and they are ok.
    As soon hit the flipperbutton the fuse blows

    #8 2 years ago
    Quoted from djblouw:

    post pictures of each flipper wiring, cabinet flipper switch wiring, and SDB wiring (left side of the board)

    Quoted from djblouw:

    post pictures of each flipper wiring, cabinet flipper switch wiring, and SDB wiring (left side of the board)

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    #9 2 years ago
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    #10 2 years ago
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    #12 2 years ago

    By manual operating the flippers the switches open.
    The fuse blow on both side left and right flipper

    #14 2 years ago
    Quoted from djblouw:

    Can you post a picture of bottom right flipper too?

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    #16 2 years ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    I don't see how your bottom right flipper will open the nearer end of stroke switch.... switch is the same length on both blades and shouldn't be.

    Ok , did not found that, but you,re right one of the blades is broken, but don,t think this can be the reason for blowup the F4 fuse.
    Will change out the short one

    #18 2 years ago
    Quoted from Blake:

    Your end of stroke switch has no way of opening on this coil. So the power is never forced to go through the hold winding. Thats a problem for sure.

    Quoted from Blake:

    Your end of stroke switch has no way of opening on this coil. So the power is never forced to go through the hold winding. Thats a problem for sure.

    You,re right but will that blow the fuse?? Fuse blow a soon as press the button, it blows on the right button but also on the right button
    And ofcourse will replace the broken switcH

    #22 2 years ago
    Quoted from Blake:

    Also I can't find a schematic for this machine so can you confirm that the top switch on the bottom right flipper is for engaging power to the upper flipper? Are you sure thats wired correctly? I see the switch is in the N/O state, is that proper? Would make sense if engaging power to the upper flipper. I see one wire on the switch is going to the return/GND lug of the coil, where does the other wire go to?

    Here part of scheme showing the three flippers

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    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from Blake:

    Under normal circumstances I would say no unless it was being held for too long. And the fact that the fuse blows without using that flipper means thats probably not the issue either. I'm assuming you meant to say "left" button.
    Are all the power wires going to the outer lug with the banded side of the diode? And are all of these wires the blue/white?

    Alle diodes installed with band to outer lug with blue white wire on all three flippers

    #27 2 years ago
    Quoted from djblouw:

    From what I can see, I agree that everything looks to be wired correctly. I've compared against my Meteor, and it matches.
    I'd start trying to isolate the flippers now (disconnect all but one, and see if it changes the behavior).

    Ok wil do that tomorrow, but today already disconnected the right one and same occurred, fuse blows.
    More and more think it must be in the driver board, see picture. Is there a way to bypass this board for testing.. ??

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    #31 2 years ago
    Quoted from Rikoshay:

    Yes you can bypass the solenoid driver board to test the flippers and see if the solenoid driver board is related.
    Remove the J1 and J2 connectors and jumper the flipper wires as per the picture you uploaded.
    J1 pin 9 orange to J2 pin 1 red
    J1 pin 8 green to J2 pin 2 blue

    Did this test and fuse still blow. This proof that solenoid board is ok
    Following step: remove the three coils and inspect coils and diodes

    #32 2 years ago
    Quoted from Xenon75:

    The driver board only enables the flipper circuit through a relay. And the relay either works or it doesn't, never seen one cause the fuse to blow. If the transistor that controls the relay was shorted on, you would have flippers all the time.
    Take your multimeter and measure each coil, like a poster said above just because the coil is new doesn't mean it isn't bad/shorted internally.

    Removed the three flipperunits complete and disassembled the coils. Checked all of them with multimeter and coils did not show any value Ohm. Removed all the diodes and measured the coils again and they show the value ohm as per specification.
    Most of the installed diodes are blown up.

    #33 2 years ago

    Need to order new diodes. In the meantime installed the flipperassy withoutthe diodes.
    Startup the machine and flippers work. Fuse stay in

    #37 2 years ago

    Thanks guys for you help
    Will wait for the diodes

    #40 2 years ago
    Quoted from Blake:

    Good point. I'm guessing the collapsing of the magnetic field is considered a potential hazard to any part and thus they always install diodes. I read sometime ago that the force created by the field collapsing is significant. Also think about the connections going to the relay. Whats stopping the back EMF from damaging further up the stream of the relay. Is that force halted in someway by the relays coil or not. I'd rather not find out the hard way.

    Reading the forum about the use of diodes, seems to be discussion everytime. Iam not experienced enough, so will stay at the safe side. Original these unit were delivered with the diodes installed and must be a good reason in that time.
    I will install these diodes and thank you all for the input.
    Albert

    #46 2 years ago
    Quoted from Blake:

    Good point. I'm guessing the collapsing of the magnetic field is considered a potential hazard to any part and thus they always install diodes. I read sometime ago that the force created by the field collapsing is significant. Also think about the connections going to the relay. Whats stopping the back EMF from damaging further up the stream of the relay. Is that force halted in someway by the relays coil or not. I'd rather not find out the hard way.

    Still struggling in getting these flippers working. .Try to install the new coils with the diodes installed. Showing two pictures , first is the original schematic showing that the EOS is connected to the power side ( blu white ) and the middle contact of the coil.
    Second picture showing the EOS is mounted between ground site and middle contact, som ot to the powersite. Always worked on EM machines , but this is different
    Also like to know if there is on these coils a powersite (direction). When i installed the diodes, just mounted the band site to one direction.
    Need some help again

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    #49 2 years ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    Yes, there is you should see 2 wires a fat and a thin going to one of the terminals. That is the power feed side. The EOS switch one end goes to this side as well, and the other goes to the fat wire other end (usually the center). The other terminal should have the other end of the thin wire.
    You probably mounted the diodes backwards. The fuse would and should blow instantly on activation as you've noted is the symptom here.
    Post a picture showing the wiring and the diodes.

    On the animated drawing, showing the lightblue wires , one goes to nonpresurre site and the other to the centre ??
    Problem with fuse was already solved, but one flipper was ok and the rightone only moved a little.
    First i mounted the diodes on the coil, just put them on, was in the understandig there was no difference in how.
    After that mounted the wires and took care that the power wires was attached to the band site of diode, so fuses did not blow. But if now seems is that on the coil itself is as pressure site as well, maybe explain reason why it was on half power.
    Cannt post pictures because already dis assembled all three units.
    Having the coil disassembled, without any wire soldered , is it possible to measure with multimeter what the pressure site is??

    #50 2 years ago

    Here picture of the coil . Only fat wire goes to the right, not two wires

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    #54 2 years ago
    Quoted from Rikoshay:

    that's odd, looks like you bought coils for an EM, if you bought for solid state they should have come with diodes installed.
    so do you have 3 coils and are unsure of mounting the diodes?
    yes you will have 2 wires to the right, one being the power wire, Blue/White tracer and one being either side of the EOS (end of stroke) switch.
    install the diodes with the band facing to the right hand side in your pic.
    one diode with band towards middle and one with band towards right hand side (thin wire)
    the power wire, in your case is the Blue/White tracer, this goes to the outer banded diode coil lug (thin wire) the right hand side in the pic.
    the ground wire, for the left flipper is Green, this goes to the non banded outer diode coil lug (thick wire), the left hand side in the pic.
    the EOS (end of stroke) switch which is normally closed at rest goes to the middle lug (thick & thin wire) & right hand coil lug in your pic for all coils.
    the ground wire, for the right flipper is Orange, this goes to the non banded end outer diode coil lug (thick wire), the left hand side in your pic.

    Little bit confusion, but thats my fault. The new coil came with the diodes installed and blew them up, so removed them and will replace them.
    Youre answer is exact the info what i need.
    Left flipper
    The green wire to the left hand thick wire
    The power line blue white to the outer lug thin wire right side.
    The eos switches one to the middle and one to the right thin wire.

    So can i say in general that the power wire always go the the lug with the thin thread???
    Can i check with multimeter??

    #57 2 years ago
    Quoted from Rikoshay:

    being Meteor that has a third flipper it is actuated by an extra set of contacts attached to the switch stack on the right hand side flipper assembly that has the EOS switch on.
    also about the 2 wires going to the thin wire lug.......you will have 2 of the Blue/White and 1 EOS, so actually 3.
    imo twist the 2 power wires together, tin them, then solder to the coil lug.
    i put the EOS wire through the hole in the coil lug so when you solder the flipper wire the EOS wire won't give you any trouble falling off.....a third hand would help with pinball repairs

    Thanks for your very clear explanation. Writing for me in a other language sometimes difficult for me to explain what the problem is, but you did understand.
    Thanks

    #58 2 years ago
    Quoted from Rikoshay:

    not sure on your question about checking with the multi meter......what do you want to check?

    You explained that the lug with the thin wire need to have the power line blue white.
    But is there also a difference when measuring ?? In other words, when measuring between the right and left lug found 340 ohm.
    Measuring form the left thick wire to the middle gives different measure.
    Measure from right side thin wire to the middle gives 340 as well.
    Want to make sure do it right this time, by double check

    Hope you understand what i mean

    #62 2 years ago
    Quoted from Rikoshay:

    Thanks for your explanation, now i understand
    with nothing connected to the coil but the diodes and the EOS switch (which must be open, use a piece of paper or similar) you should get the following:
    with the multi meter set on a resistance setting to read at least 400 ohms, and either probe used on either lug:
    the reading from the left lug to the middle lug, being the fine wire winding you should get about 350 ohms. This is the 34 gauge wire at 4500 turns.
    the reading from the right lug to the middle lug, being the thick wire winding you should get 3.5 ohms. This is the 25 gauge wire at 500 turns.
    hence the print on the wrapper 25/500 34/4500. Remembering that the gauge of the wire doesn't mean larger number thicker wire, the opposite.

    Again thanks for your very clear explanation.
    Now fully understand the working, wiring and installation of these type of coils.
    Very much appreciated
    Albert

    #64 2 years ago
    Quoted from Rikoshay:

    no worries at all, and as there isn't a clear pic of the diodes installed, here's one just for reference.[quoted image]

    #66 2 years ago
    Quoted from Rikoshay:

    no worries at all, and as there isn't a clear pic of the diodes installed, here's one just for reference.[quoted image]

    To complete this subject, let you,know that installed diodes, wires and coils as you, clearly explained.
    Machine runs again and flippers works as being new ones.
    Albert

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