(Topic ID: 59211)

Stern Metallica LE / Premium Phantom Hammer Coffin Lock Fix

By Hashman

10 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 18 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by Hashman
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 10 years ago

Don't get excited straight away but hear me out...

Ive owned an LE for a week but have struggled with the constant hammer coffin lock issues. These being the main ones in order of frequency.

Phantom Hammer Locks (Hammer and magnet dropping when ball is no where near magnet)
Magnet Drop Fail (Magnet grabs ball... doesn't drop)
Weak Magnet (Magnet tries to grab fast ball. Fails.)

Its gotten to the point where basically Coffin Multiball is pretty much unachievable. Getting the hammer lock to work as it should seems to be best achieved by hitting the newton/captive ball straight on and softly after "LOCK IS LIT" is activated.

Now while studying this behavior while playing what I think is the best freaking pinball I've played I have come to the conclusion a simple line of code could fix this "worldwide but seemingly worse in export machines" issue.

Forget the magnet and/or the magnet board and think of the newton/captive ball instead. Surely this simple line of code or option in the software could fix this.

Instead of the magnet and sensor being active when "LOCK IS LIT" how about putting a simple line of code never activating the magnet unless the captive ball is hit. Something like..

{If Newton/Captive ball is not hit do not activate magnet/hammer lock} or

{If lock lit. Activate magnet on newton/captive ball hit}

Now forgive me I am no coder but this would immediately cut out any hammer locks when the ball is no where near the magnet. The ball will be close. It will be reasonably slow. Magnet will grab and coffin lock.

Is it that simple? I think it might be. The magnet and board are proven to work. Behavior is to different across to many machines. I don't think its hardware.

What do you think? If it IS the hardware, this line of code and a slight change of rules could fix this problem worldwide. A "band-aid" fix as it might be.

Thoughts?

Dave Hashman

#2 10 years ago

I think you have got a point there .

#3 10 years ago

Just as OP describes above, JPOP developed this mechanism in 1994 for WCS and implemented it in TOTAN in 1996. Seems very straightforward: hit genie switch, magnet activates, coil pulls ball down into playfield, subway ramp switch confirms disappearing ball success. And METLE isn't even trying to get the hammer lock to toss the ball around with the magnet like the genie does in TOTAN. I don't understand why this is such an issue in 2013 when Stern is copying a design that is almost 20 years old. I hope it gets fixed before I take delivery of my METLE in a few weeks.

#4 10 years ago

Never had the second or third issue at all. Just started having the phantom hammers. The only time this happens is when lock is lit but not collected and Sparky MB is lit and not collected. It will repeatedly happen until one of the two are collected. It happens prior to all three locks and I have recreated both ways by qualifying Sparky first and then lighting lock first.

Otherwise the only problem I have with the hammer lock is hard shot from the right flipper ricochet off to the left where they are not locked. Never really more than two or three extra hits to lock.

#5 10 years ago

There should be no phantom hammers. Regardless of rules. Especially when the ball is nowhere near the magnet. Seems a simple fix. Don't activate magnet unless captive ball hit first. Easy.

#6 10 years ago

I apologize if this has nothing to do with what the OP is saying...

... Game Feature adj #75= Coffin Magnet Detect/Cap.B.Hit
This feature is set to OFF.

If you were to set that to ON, would that be the line of code you're asking for? I'm not changing any settings to find out what exactly that means. Everything working great here.

Again, sorry if I'm totally lost. It's happened many times before!

#7 10 years ago
Quoted from Pinstym:

I apologize if this has nothing to do with what the OP is saying...
... Game Feature adj #75= Coffin Magnet Detect/Cap.B.Hit
This feature is set to OFF.
If you were to set that to ON, would that be the line of code you're asking for? I'm not changing any settings to find out what exactly that means. Everything working great here.
Again, sorry if I'm totally lost. It's happened many times before!

Yes but it doesn't seem to do anything on my game except disable the whole thing. It changes from OFF to a value between 2000 - 5000 msec. I believe the intent is the magnet turns on for 2-5 sec on a captive ball hit, but no where in the patch notes is this adjustment mentioned so it does not seem functional. (yet?)

To the OP: this is a 'solution' that has been brought up a number of times in other threads (by myself as well). Currently the attitude is that that is not the intended functionality of the device. The lock shot is currently not intended to be the same shot as the captive ball shot - the lock is to be a roll over shot in it's present state. What remains to be seen is if a) they can get it working repeatably by increasing the strength or functionality of the sensing system or b) they elect to either combine the rollover sensor with captive ball shots or abandon the rollover idea completely.

Based on the last couple software releases, I'd hedge a bet that Lyman is dedicating time to a specific couple modes/features in the game for each release. Last update was Fuel and Snake MB, before that it was the Snake lock function. I'd be willing to bet based on the unfinished nature of the coffin MB locks (mismatched sound, awkward lighting phases) that at some point Coffin MB will become a focus and that's when we will see whether or not anything becomes solved.

#8 10 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Currently the attitude is that that is not the intended functionality of the device. The lock shot is currently not intended to be the same shot as the captive ball shot - the lock is to be a roll over shot in it's present state.

Just curious if this is what Stern told you?

It should be a rollover type shot, but I think it should also activate when you hit the captiveball block. That's how "I" would like to see it implemented anyhow

#9 10 years ago
Quoted from tomdotcom:

Just curious if this is what Stern told you?
It should be a rollover type shot, but I think it should also activate when you hit the captiveball block. That's how "I" would like to see it implemented anyhow

No Stern has not told me this. It's just been stated here, and there is presently no link between captive ball hits and the lock (other than lighting it). You can trip that switch all day, it does not activate the lock in test mode or in game. The ball MUST roll onto the plate and be detected.

As a side request - I would like to see an indication that lock is lit on the playfield - make the coffin slowly pulse or something, obviously differently than a Hurry Up. Currently the only way to know lock is lit for sure is to look at the DMD after a captive ball hit, which is not when I want to be looking up.

#10 10 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

No Stern has not told me this. It's just been stated here, and there is presently no link between captive ball hits and the lock. You can trip that switch all day, it does not activate the lock in test mode or in game. The ball MUST roll onto the plate and be detected.

Got ya...

I changed my ball hits to 5 / 5 / 5, since it takes so many extra hits to lock it, it only seems fair to me and plays better IMO...

#11 10 years ago

I changed mine to 5 / 5 / 5 also, 5 / 10 / 10 is just crazy.

#12 10 years ago

Great point Dave. Now go n email those Sternies.

#13 10 years ago
Quoted from audihere:

I changed mine to 5 / 5 / 5 also, 5 / 10 / 10 is just crazy.

Yeah I've also changed mine to 5 / 5 / 5 more coffin MB action

#14 10 years ago

I really think a simple option like the one I've mentioned needs to be implemented immediately even if its an interim fix. My machine is nearly unplayable. Every game I have a massive amount of phantom locks. I've even accidentally bashed the hammer with the ball because it is in down position when it shouldn't be.

Magnet / Hammer activated by cap ball hit. ON / OFF.

C'Mon Stern!

#15 10 years ago

It's just so odd that some games get phantom hammer hits and others don't? I don't get any after V1.2 this I just don't get! It must be code by why some and not others?

#16 10 years ago

I emailed Patrick at Stern this...

Hi Patrick.

I have an idea to fix the PHANTOM LOCK on the LE. Even if it is only an interim fix I think this option in the software could fix the issue for those of us experiencing constant phantom hammers. My machine can hammer lock when the ball is nowhere near the magnet. As far away as the left ramp. If you implement this option..

Coffin Magnet Active Only After Captive Ball Hit ON/OFF

This would mean the magnet would only come on after hitting the captive ball. The ball will be near the magnet and travelling slowly and will always lock. People will no issues could leave this option off but for the rest of us it would be a simple life saver. My machine has become nearly unplayable due to the amount of phantom locks and this would be a great interim fix.

Let me know what you think.

Regards,

#17 10 years ago

my metle was delivered two weeks ago with the code V1.18 and i had no problem of phantom lock. I made the update yesterday and with the code V1.2 the hammer just go crazy.

#18 10 years ago

Mine got delivered with 1.18 and it did it a few times. Seems even worse since 1.2

Needs to be fixed asap. A lot of money for a faulty machine. At least implement the captive ball hit option until its fixed properly.

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