(Topic ID: 231591)

Stern LOTR vault???

By srmonte

2 years ago


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  • 289 posts
  • 102 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by PinballManiac40
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There are 289 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 6.
#51 2 years ago

Tron neees to be done first as a regular VE like Iron Man. If it’s premium priced you can count me out.

#52 2 years ago

Love LOTR, one of the best.

But I'd rather see Stern crank out new designs. Let's get more options out there, plenty of LOTR around as it is.

At most events, nobody even wants to play LOTR because it takes too long. (You can definitely make it hard, but that's not typical)

#53 2 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

As a NIB LOTR LE previous owner a Vault edition has room to improve the pf and plastics over the originals. And maybe even get rid of the back glass ‘hair-dick ‘

Oh, right. I didn't even TOUCH on the fact that the cabinet, playfield, and plastic screening/resolution would be WAY better. They'll sell a ton of these.

#54 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Ok, just saying what the manufacturer of the game told me not my opinion. Anything is possible I guess...

That same manufacturer told me they would likely never re-run IM. We know how that turned out.

#55 2 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

That same manufacturer told me they would likely never re-run IM. We know how that turned out.

They lie/misdirect all the time. Anything you are told during a factory tour should be considered entertainment, nothing more.

#56 2 years ago
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

The problem I see is that they will ask current premium pricing for a new run, not pro pricing. I'm sure some would buy, but I'm not on board with a $7200 LOTR.

They will? You're speculating.

#57 2 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

They lie/misdirect all the time. Anything you are told during a factory tour should be considered entertainment, nothing more.

But if you hear it in a forum or on the internet it Must be fact! lol

#58 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

But if you hear it in a forum or on the internet it Must be fact! lol

I wouldn't go that far, but I would give it more weight than anything Gomez says these days. He's a serial prevaricator.

#59 2 years ago

Had to go and google that one...nice word.

#60 2 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I’d buy one if it was something improved lighting and sound.

With a huge lcd screen playing actual movie clips! Sweet!

#61 2 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

With a huge lcd screen playing actual movie clips! Sweet!

Would movie clips be better though? The dots for LOTR are some of the best in pinball. I love what CGC have done with the dots for AFM and MB that done to LOTR dots would be my first choice over movie clips.

#62 2 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

They lie/misdirect all the time. Anything you are told during a factory tour should be considered entertainment, nothing more.

You mean like the time they repeatedly said they were NOT making Luci when they announced the AC/DC vault. Then they went ahead and made 300 Luci pins anyway.

#63 2 years ago

Folks that don't like original games art...

I had a HUO original with muted playfield colors, thought it looked a little drab all around.

I've seen an original run with vibrant colors, it was much better than the one I had before.

My LOTR LE also has beautiful vibrant playfield colors and really changes the look of it. Maybe it'd help to see a vibrant original to compare to.

I think the original games art is pretty good actually. Not epic, but certainly not GOT bad. Maybe the cab art would show better with decals vs screen printing. It has some nice details to it.

There are spike games with dots, why not keep the great dots it already has, then people could easily upgrade to the also wonderful color DMD.

-2
#64 2 years ago

I really want a LOTR but with most sellers selling huo for 6500 plus I just bought a MBRLE. If stern vaulted LOTR and it came in around 5500 I would be all over it.

#65 2 years ago

Would they reuse the Whitestar system if a vault was made? Would it be difficult to port to SAM or spike?

#66 2 years ago
Quoted from jints56:

Would they reuse the Whitestar system if a vault was made? Would it be difficult to port to SAM or spike?

They already had it running on Spike, at least partially, when Spike was being developed. I think at this point a Whitestar release is completely out of the question for practical reasons due to the age of Whitestar and the issues bringing those parts back from the dead to run this. It will be Spike. As a result you get major benefits like:

> Higher-res cabinet screening
> Higher res playfield and plastics
> No-hassle shaker motor
> Color screen with higher res color graphics
> LED lighting that doesn't require an LED-OCD board to work right
> Consistent flippers throughout long games
> Reduction of stupid level of off-the-shelf toy figurines in the original release

Those benefits would make a Spike Vault LotR release a huge seller with worldwide appeal. The owners of the original and SE naysaying wouldn't be able to get theirs up for sale fast enough.

#67 2 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

They already had it running on Spike, at least partially, when Spike was being developed. I think at this point a Whitestar release is completely out of the question for practical reasons due to the age of Whitestar and the issues bringing those parts back from the dead to run this. It will be Spike. As a result you get major benefits like:
> Higher-res cabinet screening
> Higher res playfield and plastics
> No-hassle shaker motor
> Color screen with higher res color graphics
> LED lighting that doesn't require an LED-OCD board to work right
> Consistent flippers throughout long games
> Reduction of stupid level of off-the-shelf toy figurines in the original release
Those benefits would make a Spike Vault LotR release a huge seller with worldwide appeal. The owners of the original and SE naysaying wouldn't be able to get theirs up for sale fast enough.

Except they’d sell the vault for ~$7k+ and I’m ok with that vs the price I paid for original. They would then need to get all the figures remade or have new figures. However what would be nice is a new sound package so we could get better audio quality

#68 2 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

They already had it running on Spike, at least partially, when Spike was being developed. I think at this point a Whitestar release is completely out of the question for practical reasons due to the age of Whitestar and the issues bringing those parts back from the dead to run this. It will be Spike. As a result you get major benefits like:

That was TWD which was SAM.

But as your lists highlights... its no longer just software. You'd be redoing all the game's electrical design if you did Spike.. on top of all the multimedia and UX design. It would making a new game from a concept that had an existing PF drawing and rules outline.

#69 2 years ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Except they’d sell the vault for ~$7k+ and I’m ok with that vs the price I paid for original. They would then need to get all the figures remade or have new figures. However what would be nice is a new sound package so we could get better audio quality

They never owned the rights to the figures so doubt that would happen.

#70 2 years ago
Quoted from dung:

They never owned the rights to the figures so doubt that would happen.

They figured something out on Iron Man VE, right?

#71 2 years ago

I would buy one if it’s ‘improved’ over the original such as better sound and lighting.

I did sell my LotR would like to buy another but I’m a condition snob meaning I like games that look like new.

#72 2 years ago
Quoted from dung:

They never owned the rights to the figures so doubt that would happen.

just throw some hobbit toys on? they'd have to have toys made again, or not have figures. This makes me believe lotr's would not be a good vault for licensing, unless they thought they could make some serious money. Otherwise if the tv show is launching soon, it could coincide....

#73 2 years ago

Could you get the figures off eBay? Which make/brand did Stern use?

#74 2 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

They figured something out on Iron Man VE, right?

Iron man is part of the continuing marvel cinematic universe and so getting toys in that style is easy enough. Now you are talking about having toys made for a series of movies that haven't been made in 15 years? Different story unless they made the pin based on the books with a different art style and all new music/callouts. You would lose the film score and the voice actors for the callouts which would suck.

#75 2 years ago
Quoted from J85M:

Could you get the figures off eBay? Which make/brand did Stern use?

You used to be able to... people used them to fill in the weapons and other elements stern stripped off. But that was over 12 years ago and pickings were getting slim back then too. a RGP search would probably find the actual product match

Here are some details - http://lotrpinball.blogspot.com/p/aome-figures-for-sale.html

Made from different sets made by AOME - even 8 years ago people were paying out the nose for them... doing it in volume today? yikes..

#76 2 years ago
Quoted from dung:

Iron man is part of the continuing marvel cinematic universe and so getting toys in that style is easy enough. Now you are talking about having toys made for a series of movies that haven't been made in 15 years? Different story unless they made the pin based on the books with a different art style and all new music/callouts. You would lose the film score and the voice actors for the callouts which would suck.

For IM Vault, Stern just made a mold of the old toys, then re-created their own unposeable versions of them. However, on LOTR SE they just didn't include the toys.

#77 2 years ago

If Stern improved the art - even the same art at a higher res, improved the sound to modern game standards, upgraded the dots like CGC has with AFMr and MBr, I could live without some figures, but I can’t see why Stern couldn’t produce a bunch like they did for IMVE.

#78 2 years ago
Quoted from J85M:

If Stern improved the art - even the same art at a higher res, improved the sound to modern game standards, upgraded the dots like CGC has with AFMr and MBr, I could live without some figures, but I can’t see why Stern couldn’t produce a bunch like they did for IMVE.

Size and shape complexity for one thing... number of figures is another. LOTR uses 12 figures... IM uses 3

#79 2 years ago

Stern can essentially replicate CGC's business model, which I believe has been proved successful. Basically CGC has picked off highly rated pins (MM, MB, AFM) and improved them with better graphics, and sound. If Stern did this LOTR would be a home run....

#80 2 years ago

Skip the toy figures. The last time those interested me I was 7 years old. I would definitely be a vault buyer.

#81 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Size and shape complexity for one thing... number of figures is another. LOTR uses 12 figures... IM uses 3

Sure there are more of them and they may be a bit more complex, but it's extremely hard to imagine figurines being the thing that keeps an LOTRVE from happening. If it was crazy expensive to do a small run of custom-cast and painted toys, IM wouldn't have had them. Worst case they make another run without figurines, and Pinside modders will instantly step up to prove they can be recreated piecemeal.

Figurines won't kill the deal.

#82 2 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

With a huge lcd screen playing actual movie clips! Sweet!

Am I the only one that does not like movie clips to be shown in licensed games? I've always thought if I wanted to see the movie, I'd re-watch the movie. I want original animations that tie the game together (and to the movies) without having to go to the well and pull officially licensed clips. I want dots or full animation - pinball screen technology dependent. Movie clips come across as lazy and cost savings measures to me - like using clip-art as playfield and cabinet art. Again, just my opinion. I realize some like the opposite and that's OK.

#83 2 years ago

Stern could sell 1000 or more LOTRv easy. Copy the original design and price it as a premium for $7k. Anybody seriously interested in LOTRv has no reason not to buy a huo LOTR when one pops up. Add the color dmd and you are all set.

Until a poser plops down cash for this one, everybody saying they would buy LOTRv are full of shit imo.

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#84 2 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Stern can essentially replicate CGC's business model, which I believe has been proved successful. Basically CGC has picked off highly rated pins (MM, MB, AFM) and improved them with better graphics, and sound. If Stern did this LOTR would be a home run....

Supply and demand has to be taken into account. CGC's model works because the games they've made so far were going from 12k-20k restored, and were produced in relatively low production numbers. LOTR had a HUGE production run that went on for years. It was hard to find MM, AFM, and MB. It's not hard to find LOTR.

#85 2 years ago

How much were iron man vaults?

#86 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Supply and demand has to be taken into account. CGC's model works because the games they've made so far were going from 12k-20k restored, and were produced in relatively low production numbers. LOTR had a HUGE production run that went on for years. It was hard to find MM, AFM, and MB. It's not hard to find LOTR.

supply and demand need to always be taken into account so I couldnt agree more...that being said its a top rated game, and a new and improved version would sell very well in my opinion....even at the $7K+ mark

#87 2 years ago
Quoted from srmonte:

How much were iron man vaults?

I wanna say $5100 or $5300? I forget...but around there. Keep in mind IM was always a very cheap game for them to design/build & they have an ongoing relationship with Marvel licensing.

#88 2 years ago
Quoted from srmonte:

How much were iron man vaults?

Looks like $5495 MSRP from that Stern price tracking thread. Not sure what street price was, but somewhat less anyway.

The pinball market has changed a lot since 2014, so regardless of whether licensing and production costs would be that much different, it'd be a pipedream to expect an LOTR at that price when Pros are going for ~$6k.

#89 2 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Sure there are more of them and they may be a bit more complex, but it's extremely hard to imagine figurines being the thing that keeps an LOTRVE from happening

Of course they wouldn't... they didn't stop the LOTR LE build either. I was simply responding to those who asked 'why couldn't they...'

But there is no escaping the issue that doing 4x as many figures.. is a different ball of wax

I think the biggest thing holding back LOTR is LOTR. Stern made a metric *$*( ton of them and they still only sell in the mid 5s because of it. They've already done a 're-load' of the title with the LOTR LE games too.

The comparison to CGC remaking games from the 90s isn't really quite the same. It's difficult for a new buyer today to get a 'NIB like' level example of MB/AFM/MM etc. Not really the same for games like TRON, LOTR, etc. So it really takes the right combination of market factors to justify the costs... especially when you start talking about doing things like all new media packages, new licensing, etc.

#90 2 years ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

They will? You're speculating.

If Stern go to the trouble of re-making Lord of the Rings, they're not going to sell it for Pro pricing. It will be Premium pricing. They will include something in the package (however small) to justify the price hike.

-2
#91 2 years ago
Quoted from J85M:

If Stern improved the art - even the same art at a higher res, improved the sound to modern game standards, upgraded the dots like CGC has with AFMr and MBr, I could live without some figures, but I can’t see why Stern couldn’t produce a bunch like they did for IMVE.

I think WAY less figurines than the comicon-dumpster original is a huge improvement. I'll be okay with just a couple.

Quoted from ahdelarge:

If Stern go to the trouble of re-making Lord of the Rings, they're not going to sell it for Pro pricing. It will be Premium pricing. They will include something in the package (however small) to justify the price hike.

Yeah, it will be in the $7,500 range, but you know, I'm totally fine with that. In this one case, take my money, Stern. No complaints here about pricing on this significant upgrade to one of the best games you've ever released (That's a rare, and totally sincere, compliment to you, too, Gomez!).

#92 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

The comparison to CGC remaking games from the 90s isn't really quite the same. It's difficult for a new buyer today to get a 'NIB like' level example of MB/AFM/MM etc. Not really the same for games like TRON, LOTR, etc. So it really takes the right combination of market factors to justify the costs... especially when you start talking about doing things like all new media packages, new licensing, etc.

But, almost NO ONE (actually no one?) WANTS a "NIB-like" LotR. They want the complete Spike2 update with all the great improvements that allows that I bullet pointed earlier (and great stereo sound, too, which I forgot to mention!). People will PAY for that, almost no-questions-asked, and there'll be a flood of original machines littering the secondary market when it's announced, and prices on them will fall hard.

-2
#93 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

That was TWD which was SAM.
But as your lists highlights... its no longer just software. You'd be redoing all the game's electrical design if you did Spike.. on top of all the multimedia and UX design. It would making a new game from a concept that had an existing PF drawing and rules outline.

But a sure thing is a sure thing, and in pinball, that's a rarity. Spike2 LotR is as sure a thing as you can get. Gomez needs a little love, and Spike2 (Spike3?) LotR will deliver in spades. It's not as big a deal as you're making out. The mechanical questions are all answered, and the code template is done. It will sell more than most pins Stern makes. Feel free to remind me of that claim once it's released.

#94 2 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

But a sure thing is a sure thing, and in pinball, that's a rarity. Spike2 LotR is as sure a thing as you can get. Gomez needs a little love, and Spike2 (Spike3?) LotR will deliver in spades. It's not as big a deal as you're making out. The mechanical questions are all answered, and the code template is done. It will sell more than most pins Stern makes. Feel free to remind me of that claim once it's released.

A buddy just got a really nice huo lotr so we debate the possibilities of this happening often lately. The argument is that the BOM, licensing, redoing the art, everything will cost too much and how many will they really sell? Sure, pinheads want this to happen...but how many bars are clamouring for a LotR VE @ $7k+ when they can buy a sw, gotg, or dp pro @ $5.6k that doesn’t have 40 minute ball times and rakes in more coin drop? How many of these hypothetical lotr vaults you realistically think Stern would sell?

Don’t misunderstand me, I’d really like to see this happen and I’d consider buying one if the whole improved package was there as you described, I’m just not convinced we’ll see it instead of a TWD VE or TRON VE that’d be so much less expensive to make!

Fingers crossed you’re right though!

-1
#95 2 years ago
Quoted from pickleric:

A buddy just got a really nice huo lotr so we debate the possibilities of this happening often lately. The argument is that the BOM, licensing, redoing the art, everything will cost too much and how many will they really sell? Sure, pinheads want this to happen...but how many bars are clamouring for a LotR VE @ $7k+ when they can buy a sw, gotg, or dp pro @ $5.6k that doesn’t have 40 minute ball times and rakes in more coin drop? How many of these hypothetical lotr vaults you realistically think Stern would sell?
Don’t misunderstand me, I’d really this to see this happen and I’d consider buying one if the whole improved package was there as you described, I’m just not convinced we’ll see it instead of a TWD VE or TRON VE that’d be so much less expensive to make!
Fingers crossed you’re right though!

Tron VE is a natural, so LotR is not replacing that. TWD? Not so sure about that being a VE. LotR Spike2 would sell a ton more at Premium pricing, and bars would be happy to have it because of the much better LED lighting and full color screen and improved graphics that the original doesn't have.

#96 2 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

But, almost NO ONE (actually no one?) WANTS a "NIB-like" LotR. They want the complete Spike2 update with all the great improvements that allows that I bullet pointed earlier (and great stereo sound, too, which I forgot to mention!). People will PAY for that, almost no-questions-asked, and there'll be a flood of original machines littering the secondary market when it's announced, and prices on them will fall hard.

They did that... and called it Guardians of the Galaxy.

#97 2 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

But a sure thing is a sure thing, and in pinball, that's a rarity. Spike2 LotR is as sure a thing as you can get. Gomez needs a little love, and Spike2 (Spike3?) LotR will deliver in spades. It's not as big a deal as you're making out. The mechanical questions are all answered, and the code template is done. It will sell more than most pins Stern makes. Feel free to remind me of that claim once it's released.

Node board implementation means re-engineering all the wiring and PCBs of the game. The code is no where near done - you simply have the game rules. You'd have to source all that sound and multimedia you are clamoring for... and then come up with all the art design for the screen.. and redo all the game/media integration. Software wise, it's effectively ground up except you have a rule sheet to work from. Like I said before, you have a playfield drawing and a rulesheet... virtually everything else would be new. That's no gimmie.

#98 2 years ago

I'm not entirely sure there's *any* VE coming anytime soon...the market/competition has exploded the past couple of years and IMO Stern has really upped their game. LOR and Tron? There's lots out there already and they would be repeats. And JUST for pinheads. Johnny Arcade drop-in dude probably has no interest in LOR or Tron because the IP's are out of date.

Maybe down the road but why would Stern tie up line resources to reproduce old machines when they can do something new? Producing pinball machines is not easy or cheap.

#99 2 years ago

Hate to bring up the Beatles, but I think it was partially intended to reset pricing in our minds. $7.6k for an updated Seawitch that is nowhere near as good as a LOTRv. On # of mechanisms, # of ramps, quality of final code and best game basis, who would buy a Beatles over LOTR for $7.5k? Who thinks Beatles is a better value, and yet Stern made/sold 1000 of them in short order (maybe 400 have been resold to end buyers, while the balance sit in boxes in warehouses, ready to be adopted).

Stern can take a dump on a cracker and sell 1000 of them. LOTRv is a no brainer, make it and they will come. Ironically few in this thread would buy one. LOTRv threads tend to attract two types of people - those who know it would sell but don’t want one and those who think it should be updated and enhanced and priced at $5.5k. Stern needs 1000 buyers wanting a guaranteed great pin with complete code, high end trim finishes and a color screen to compete with AFMr, MMr and MBr.

One thing all top 10 pins have .... real toys. When was the last Stern pin released with cool toys? Not DP, not SW, not Primus not Beatles, but the entry level LOTR has Balrog bash toy, Ring ramp, sword lock ramp and a well integrated shaker. Price for entry into this exclusive club is $7.5k. Stern could release it next year to coincide with the 42nd anniversary celebration of episode 4. Any pin license under 50 years old is considered a “recent” theme.

#100 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

LOTRv is a no brainer, make it and they will come. Ironically few in this thread would buy one. LOTRv threads tend to attract two types of people - those who know it would sell but don’t want one and those who think it should be updated and enhanced and priced at $5.5k.

I wouldn't. I am tempted to sell or trade a few of my titles and get an LOTR LE, but I'd pass on a VE. If it happened I am betting it would be like spiderman, new art, new dots, new sounds. Would kill my desire for a vault.

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