Not without a complete rule rewrite. Ugh.

I hope SM comes out of the vault. Would love another chance at a new Spidey.

There is a risk for Gary Stern in making the remake "Vault" versions: What if the remake versions do not cover the costs of tooling/parts and licensing because he doesn't sell enough of each remake?

It's going to be a guessing game of whether or not the demand to renew license title "X" will be able to pay for the license and still allow them to make a profit.

Isn't most of these licenses already expired?

This really isn't the first time this has been implemented... Think about Addam's Family Gold... as well as all of those revamped versions of Pac-man , Ms. Pac-Man, Donkey Kong.... reunion games essentially the same thing minor art tweaks etc.. They are games that will live on forever with future generations being able to enjoy them.

with that said where's my ...
Jaws
Tom Petty
Led Zeppelin
Goonies
The Beatles

just to name a few

I don't believe that Stern destroys their tooling. I imagine they have all the necessary press guides and ramp forms, etc to make these games, still.

Yeah, yeah....I forgot about that one. Thats easy to do for me.

Stern is one of the most conservative companies around.

They are not going to stick their necks out far, that's for sure.

All the design, tooling and testing is already done. A license is ~$20.

The orders are pouring in already, and production has not even started.

Well since gravity has reversed in the world of pinball... bring on Tron Premium

That's it right there, you said it yourself "to 6k"...people are asking the same money for HUO LOTR's as they are for IM's most of the time, so if IM is remade it makes total sense to do LOTR as well. There are some routed LOTR below 5k to about 4.5k but they don't come up for sale very often. If you remade LOTR and said '5k' you'd have a lot of people (including me) who would buy a NIB one rather than pay 5.5k for a HUO one or 5k for a routed one, which seems to be the typical asking prices right now.

LOTR
TSPP
SM

Both the Tron Pro and LE models are ranked higher than Iron Man among collectors.

Since we're pimping out the past, it makes perfect sense.

Tron is the only one. That is it! They will not redo SM (not high priced enough) or LOTR (2003 license?), X-men (priced to low now), TSPP (you can buy them $4000 or less), FG ($4500 or less) or any LE's (c'mon man!).

Tron Pro is coming. Sorry $6000+ For Sale Trons w/mods, but not really.

Should I get a IM or wait for Tron.

I don't think we can expect LOTR or TSPP because those are white-star games... they would have to re-run White Star CPU boards (the SAM power/driver board can be made to work on White Star games - see LOTR LE) but who knows, they could... but would add to the cost

Am I meeting the "Magic_Mike" next week at the Expo or what? You sir, have a very nice collection.

A Premium version would change all that.

Really? Then where are all the $4000ish Trons for sale? Not questioning your info, but why are they all mid $5000+.

Thank-you!

Yes, I will be there!

or maybe they'll just starting releasing old bally/williams titles for cheaper than planetary pinball can...

NIB one's are currently priced around $6K.

I would think that JJP, who is currently doing a LOTR franchise licensed pin (the Hobbit), would have a big problem with the license being sold to produce other LOTR pinball machines, old or new.

And unlike IM, there are a ton of LOTR's out there... it was a heavily routed game released at a different time. Not a lot of IM's made it on route or in homes.

And I don't think there is any shortage of SM's out there either?

no shortage of either but if demand causes prices to get close or overtake NIB prices then they will be re-run. This is how Stern has always operated. When I picked up my LOTR in 2008-2009, used prices were around $3500 and climbing and new ones were $3800, so stern ran some more, and that was already 5 Years after the initial release and probably the 5th seperate run, then came the LE's

I can definitely 100% see more Trons, after that the rest of the $4.5K-5K+ ones are a toss up. Can they make as few as 100 units of a model and still be worthwhile.

P.S...

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure
It's the "operators" that are going to be buying these Iron Man Vaults more than collectors.

I know they have done some 300 unit runs. I think the very last SM run was only 100 units and thought the same occurred with the last Tron run.

Now we can start debating the collectible value of "original" IMs vs IMr? Will first-run Trons will retain their value vs 4th runs, and the "vault edition"?

I figured it would be a dark day when Stern starts focusing on re-runs rather than new games. This hobby needs new themes and new innovations to avoid falling flat on it's face, but it is further verification that "collectibility" value of many games is finally dropping back down to earth, for better or worse.

I think it comes down to "What items from the pin can't be redone?"

On Tspp I thought that big homer head was a toy and stern bought hundreds of those for the machine. Those would be hard to reproduce.

They have?

Not that I've seen. It seems prices on LOTR have stayed pretty stable for the last 2 years. I've bought and sold 3 of them in that time period, all within a few hundred bucks of each other.

lol You really think it never dawned on Stern to do this until MMr came along? You think this is the first time they've rereleased a title?

People forget that LOTR and TSPP were in re-run for 6-7 years after they were released. Spidey, BDK, and Tron had re-runs years after they came out and were officially "out of production". So, this isn't entirely unique. What is unique is that they're actually putting some extra effort into this one w/ the new toys, metal-whatever Mustang style cab decals, and redoing the lighting system & code for LEDs.

While the focus of this topic is potential reruns, I'm still waiting for Stern to start production on Whoa Nellie! Big Juicy Melons. The intend has been there for a few years, but it has been a very low priority.

What I find interesting about this thread in reading through the potential titles is the fact that there really aren't any others that make obvious sense. LOTR sells for $5k for nice HUO versions and there are a lot of them out there. Still, that would have to be near the top of the list in terms of what Sterns are priced at.

Tron can alway be rerun again as a pro. Makes zero sense to do a premium version of Tron. Rerunning Tron pro makes more sense than pretty much any title (other than IM).

SM? I don't see there being a lot of demand for that one either, and they sell for close to the same price as LOTR, maybe just a tad more. This one is a possibility though.

Don't see TSPP as much of a possibility either, as they sell for less than $5k, so I don't see much of a demand to rerun these.

I think the coolest possibilities would be with the older Stern's previously mentioned like Seawitch and Flight 2000.

Which means that Stern can just keep rerunning the Pro's!

Why would they need to release a Tron Premium version if NIB pros sell for $6k?

last run was March 2013

Ooooooh Robbie T is coming over to the dark side of 80s pins!!!

Join us Robbie T!

RD and Odin are your Father! (Or brothers ...)

Lol!!

rd.

You have trained me well, Obi-Wan!

LOTR and TSPP weren't rerun for that long, it was closer to four years from my memory. LOTR LE (or HD to some of us) was something where Jack convinced them to run a special version without the figures but with some other upgrades because he still was seeing a lot of demand for them NIB. Remember, Pinballsales.com was the largest seller of Stern machines to homes for the longest time.

And again, it's not exactly unique. Tron got upgraded art and (this is up for debate) translites. LOTR LE got the backglass.

The effort that is going into this is only to make the game work - they wouldn't be doing the new toys if they didn't have to, and the system lighting seems to be a stock thing now.

I would be surprised if they actually could easily reclaim the LOTR license. While I'm usually the first to say that you can obtain old licenses early, as someone else pointed out - with the Hobbit licensed to a competitor and from the same license pool, I'm relatively certain that is some sort of exclusive license for JJP that probably would mean that they couldn't in good faith license LOTR back to Stern until JJPs Hobbit license ran out. That just makes sense.

Having said that, I would guess the two most primed for a rerun would actually be IJ4 and BDK. Both earn great for ops - I can't believe how many times ops have told me that BDK is far and away their best earning machine - and have a strong value with the home market. For those two, the home sales really don't have to be outstanding, op sales might make up for it. Heck, if I was going to route a machine, based on everything I have heard, I'd be looking for a pair of BDKs to start with. Add to it that ops don't want your used game or your modded game, and both of those make a lot of sense.

It would be amazing if Indy actually got a code update too. For as completely simple as that game currently is, I find the layout far more addicting then it has any right to be. Update the code and it has real potential to be stellar. That moving captive ball toy is still one of my favorite toys in pinball, and I can't believe it hasn't been repeated anywhere yet.

Tron premium makes the most sense to me. Stern isn't the one getting $6k for NIB Tron pros.

Stern got tired of leaving money on the table after that one and came up with the pro/premium/LE model, which makes the most financial sense for Stern. I would be in for a Tron premium at a premium price that has all of the LE game play features.

I don't think Stern LEs 'came with a promise' or that Stern has an obligation to keep collectors whole in some way. In fact, I think Stern let a lot of people down by limiting the game play functions to the LE. Bring on the premium!

And if that's true, it only goes back to what I said earlier, which is that nothing stands out as being obvious for a rerelease. I just don't see anywhere near the same amount of excitement of a rerelease of BDK or especially IJ4 as IM. Not. Even. Close.

They weren't the ones getting $6500.00 for NIB IM pros either, so I don't see your point.

I personally vote for the classic sterns getting vault editions. I would love to see the "space theme" series be remade.

The only hassle I see for Stern re-running TRON is the fiber optic ramp wire. Eli's fiber wire is much more vibrant than the LE version.....I guess they could just buy pinbits out on those kits to make a true "premium"?

Little known fact?..... the guy that sold Stern all that color changing wire for the LE's tried to get them to add it to the pro's, obviously he wanted to sell more product but Stern declined.

If that's true, why doesn't Stern make Premiums for *all* machines? I mean, nothing was as successful as Tron was, but both Transformers and X-Men didn't have a Premium level, just LE and regular. I don't own any LEs, so I have no skin in the game, but I think that if Stern wants to dismantle the collector's level, then they rerun Tron LE. There is an implicit promise not to run more of the same thing since the name of the game is "Limited Edition", so if they suddenly decide that nothing is sacred, why would anyone gamble on any upcoming LEs? A LOT of the frenzy around buying LEs the day they are announced for sale comes from the success that Stern had with Tron LE, and the fact that games like X-Men LE and Transformers LE sell for hundreds less then they cost new is accepted as a gamble people took when they bought. They would also screw those people who bought Tron machines even under NIB pricing if they would have rather had that model.

When Avatar LE was announced long after the Pro model came out, some people who had bought the Pro and wanted to upgrade were seriously ticked off. They paid around $4k for the Pro, ended up dumping it for a $500 or so loss, and then paid an additional $1000 for the LE, making that an additional $1500. Imagine now if the 400 or so people who bought runs 2 and 3 were told if they wanted a better machine they would need to take a bath on the one they got and pay more for the new one?

It would really not go over well for anyone. IMr doesn't hurt business. Tron Prem would.

In the collector community, heck no. A lot of people would think it was a joke.

In the op community, I can name at least five guys that would have their wallets out the instant it was announced to buy at least a pair of them, especially BDK. Sure, that's only 10 machines, but most of the ops that I know are smaller ops, and they are concentrated in a small geographical area. I can't imagine it would be too hard to move 100 of them almost instantly.

In "our world" there would be few posts, but I bet the sales numbers would be real similar.

If they updated IJ4's code, I think it could cause some serious interest around these parts too. Heck, BDK could get a nifty little code update that would make it a lot better for the collector market too, I think.

I have heard from a lot of people that Tron was a dog on route. I wonder if the color changing ramp stuff would have made a difference.

Damn, I want Eli's ramp mod. I kind of want to open my Tron just to mod it, and i'm not a modding type of guy.

I have a tron on route and it does very well... the mods helped earnings a lot... Eli's mod almost doubled my earnings

BDK also does very well on route

also adding LEDs to any games will help it's earnings... most of my games saw a 20~30% increase in earnings by adding LEDs

Its well worth it. The eye candy factor is just amazing. Lets not forget TRON LE came with incandescent bulbs, how much better would it be with current LED lighting schemes like they are adding to IM? For instance, X-men still wows me with its light show even after the ~1900~ plays Ive put on it.

TRON pro NIB does lack in the lighting department quite a bit, I still really enjoy all the added under cab/apron flashers every time I play mine.

I would buy a NIB Star Gazer, Nine Ball, and Seawitch.

Tron LE was I think the first game with the surface mount LED's for the controlled lamps. Still have incandescents for the GI.

Wow! That answers that!

Noted, although opening up a NIB game to mod it and then wrap it back up is something that is silly enough that I can't even think of doing it. At least not much

I might be "special" here, but I have a screwed up left eye, so a lot of the stock Stern stuff drives me batty. I will say that I think X-Men is amazing, but I much prefer the 'roll your own' style to the 'Stern picks for you' machines that I have seen the LED lighting on.

Having said that, Tron looks about ten times better with LEDs. So does Iron Man for that matter.

I have a HUO Seawitch I've been married to forever that you can have.
Hell, I'll even throw in free shipping.
But have to warn you... There's no off switch.