Guns N' Roses (LE)
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Quoted from Psw757:Prior to all the COVID stuff LZ was rumored as a OCT/NOV game and that was coming from the usual people in the know back in Jan/Feb.
Now, I’ve heard Sterns production is slightly behind but have heard they are back on track as well.
I’m hoping for something prior to December, otherwise I may say f’ it and buy a GNR.
As someone who has owned all of Stern LE music games all I can say is I hope they step up their game....GNR set the bar pretty high
Quoted from Psw757:I agree they do need to step it up with some innovation but by no means do they need to out do what JJP did. If your thinking that your setting yourself up for disappointment.
LZ machine in my book has the edge with available music catalogue, question is what is Stern gonna use and implement into a rockin game?
Trust me I know that....LZ is in the same boat as GNR....both have some great music, but I don't care for all their stuff....I jus hope they actually license more than 10 songs
Quoted from Hazoff:If there the right songs that's enough. Trouble is Stern will have to include the top ten pop list of Zeppelin songs.
Why? AC/DC Luci, Metallica Monster and Maiden Pre were all pretty god damn great. I hope they don't change anything.
I had LE's of all those games....AC/DC all time fav band, but game is so so (lower play field sucked). Met was the best game...IMDN best layout with shitty music....yes music matters....
Quoted from Hazoff:Yeah I'm sure Zeppelin fans decided not to wait and grab GnR instead. Like that's a lateral move music wise. GnR is OK but they are not even close to being in the same league as Zeppelin. Please try to remove u know what from we know what kind sir.
Their in exactly the same league in my book...love some of their songs, but I'm no fan boy of anyone's music....that being said Stern will probably cheap out on the license and probably only get 8-10 songs....let alone any other assets. I hope its great, and if it is I may give it a shot.
Quoted from Psw757:I’m expecting a flood of GNR’s on the second hand market in the next 1-3 months.
I think we have quite a few impulse buyers on this game.
Probably no different than every other pin out there....
Quoted from iceman44:I was gonna thumbs up this post but I saw some JJP sycophants upvoting that comment. Lol
I'm a fan of all pinball.....I don't discriminate.....
Quoted from Hazoff:And yet Wonka gets the blood pumping, speaks volumes.
I get not liking Maiden as a band although the first 5 albums were great but u know we all get old there's no shame in that, however to find the pin boring is just plain ridiculous.
I've owned both....IMDN LE and WW LE.....sold my IMDN in a month, and my WW is still in the game room.....to each their own...IMDN is fun, WW is fun....to each their own....
Quoted from chuckwurt:If Zepp is even close to the experience that GNR is, it’s going to be tough to pass up.
We all know from an asset perspective Stern's Zepp will be 1 and JJP's GNR was an 11 (probably never be repeated)....Stern will cheap out on on acquiring the assets...the game will have 8-10 songs, and Sterns typical cartoony animations.....does that mean it won't be a fun game....NO...it could be kick ass, but don't expect a bunch of assets....it is what it is
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:Saying it would be a 1 definitely shows your bias against Stern. But your points are valid though. Outside of all the flash and great light show is GnR really an 11? So it’s better than perfect? You set he bar very low for Stern and really high for JJP. I am not a fan of live music video's dubbed with studio tracks. Not a fan of 27” monitor screen size or the short plunge. Call outs seemed forced and like they didn’t want to be there to me and just read the line.
All the lights in the world won’t make up for a game if it’s a good or ok shooter once the initial wow factor wares off if your looking to buy vs just dropping in a few quarters in.
I am waiting for more SE videos and impressions to come because I can’t justify spending near $10k for a pin, especially not even playing one. SE looks like a decent more affordable price, but $7k is still a lot of money.
Like I have said I am a big Zeppelin fan but I have my concerns and will have to play one before I spend the money no matter how good or bad people say it is.
Total BS....Ive owned all the Stern music pins and have no bias...its just a fact...if u can't accept that than its your issue. Them, music, and assets matter in my opinion
Quoted from Guinnesstime:Steve Ritchie's first pinball game with Williams was Flash. It sold 19,505 units in 1979.
There are literally less than 400 pinball machines in the wild that have been designed by Eric.
Huh? They sold a thousand POTC's alone....comparing designers is kinda dumb.....they both are very different, and very good at what they do....
Quoted from Guinnesstime:Whatever the number is, what, less than 0.5% of all SR's pins combined? The guy's designed 2 pins. The first was dropped from production quickly. The new one is multiball & extra ball madness. Let's be real.
whats your point? That one designer is old and one is young....bravo
Quoted from beelzeboob:So is Game of Thrones. And ACDC. And we could talk about all the amazing games SR designed before Eric sprouted pubes. Both great designers, but I think Eric would have to beef up his resume a bit before you could compare one to the other.
so does that Richie a better designer than Elwin? Its just kind of a meaningless comparison...one is on his last legs in the business, and the other is just starting out, but has a lot of talent....
Quoted from Hazoff:Yes it does and u could design an great pin with no legs at all.
Elwin could go to shit for all we know. The big thing here is why compare them when it comes down to personal preference and the fact that u really only as good as ur current pin. Theme matters, audio and clips matter not just layout and code. This has been going on for a long time, people say things like this particular designer with this particular coder and its 100% going to be great, opposite with others. The sad thing they actually believe that. If Eric's next game sucks I'm not gonna hold it against him and overlook future pins he designs, same goes with every single team working in pinball today. But a new band that u really like with 2 albums out that u really enjoy can't compare with Sabbath or Zeppelin, not yet.
All true.....and everything matters in a pinball game...theme, layout, code, etc.....it could be his greatest pin ever or be just so so....only time will tell
Quoted from John_I:Well I got to have a session on GnR LE this weekend and now I'm even more certain that it is LZ or nothing for me when it comes to these two. Right up front I will point out that I am not even close to being a GnR fan, so the pin would have had to totally blow me away for me to ever buy one. Unlike the really spiffy professional JJP release videos and glamor shots, the game doesn't look as impressive in person. Even still, GnR is certainly complete and full featured looking with a lot of attention to detail in the art and toys. Right away I noticed pooling in the clearcoat in a few places despite the Oct 2020 build date. The gameplay was not great but not bad. Not like the satisfying butter smooth shots in AIQ and the upper playfield looks cool as hell but doesn't really add much IMO. Still there is a ton there for those who want the world under the glass as you would expect for the steep prices. What I don't expect for the high price is the crappy sound system; especially on a music pin. The way JJP turned the mid speakers facing upwards instead of toward the player when they moved the boards out of the cabinet and into the back box makes them sound really poorly equalized and tinny at times. Beauty is in the ear of the beholder, but even a Stern Pro sounds better (in my opinion) because the speakers are pointed directly at the player. Also Stern uses a 2.1 amp so the cabinet speaker is its own separate adjustable channel rather than the old fixed crossover. So even the GnR LE is yearning for the sound bar that is on the CE. I've seen this discussed on a few threads and have to agree what others have posted. A final note is the JJP flippers are not bad, but not as precise and crisp feeling or powerful as I am used to with Sterns.
So on a whole, no real surprise as I have been leaning hard toward the LZ side of this question since day one of this thread. LZ is one of my all time favorite bands and GnR has about four songs that I like. Also, I love Steve Ritchie - even his recent games that others turn their noses up at.
To each their own, but its hard to take anyone serious who ranks Jack in the Box 40 spots ahead of POTC CE....clearly these modern games are not your cup of tea....
Quoted from Hazoff:The fuckface comments continue. U asked and I told ya. Its the truth. This guy can say it better than me.
go to 1:25
Funny shit !
Quoted from John_I:Comet "Sunlight" are between warm and Natural. They are just the right balance for a lot of games without going full warm yellowish.
I second the comet sunlight LED's....I install those in most of my B/W games and they are a great balance
Quoted from Psw757:Well JJP CE sold out on day one within hours of the reveal and word on the LZ LE is sold out prior to reveal.
If true LZ for the win!
Doesn't make LZLE special...they all sell out prior to reveal
I'm sure the game will be fun, but it could possibly be the ugliest art package I've ever seen (mainly the LE)....how did Stairway not make the list....Hard pass for me
Quoted from beelzeboob:Awesome that you can determine that with no gameplay at all. I'm jealous.
Point well made, but on the surface its not a close race....yet again Stern has done a wonderful job of paying the least amount possible for a license, and in this case even hired a third grader to provide the art package....
Quoted from beelzeboob:I'm sorry...but I've heard the same thing with GOT, SW, and STh...and all three have turned out to be incredibly fun games. It's not a reskin like the Beatles was (and that looked like an Easter basket to me) and this looks like it could be a really fun game. Too early to judge...but that's Pinside.
No reason to apologize as I'm not saying it won't end up being a really fun game. My point was the license was clearly limited, which is typical in the Stern model, and clearly they put very little effort into the art package (which normally I could give two shits about).
Quoted from Dan1733:Have to agree with Ptown on this one. Neither LZ nor any other pin can really compete with GNR because the artist was involved in creating the game. Imagine if Sigourney Weaver made Alien her own project. Probably not fair to compare LZ, or any other Stern, with GNR. Or POTC. Or WW
Its clear that JJP lucked out with GNR. Having the owners of the assets so heavily motivated to make a great pin is not the norm. My guess is it may not ever happen again. That doesn't mean that LZ won't be a fun pin, but GNR probably has the greatest theme integration we'll ever see in a pinball game.
Quoted from beelzeboob:Certainly shows in the art and bling. But that doesn't have much bearing on how the game plays. It's like saying you're sure glad Pat Lawlor helped GnR write those awesome songs.
Certainly doesn't make it a great game, but if u like the band it certainly helps. The theme integration on GNR is incredible so much so I highly doubt you'll see another game on the same level. That being said if u don't like the band u may not like the game. I liked IMDN game play, but hated the music so it didn't last long in my collection.
Quoted from beelzeboob:Still no idea why they went with old fat GnR concert footage though.
I hear ya, but it was all about their latest tour .... how Stern didn't include Stairway to heaven as their final wizard mode is beyond me. My guess is they didn't want to pay the license fee.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Not true. The licensor has heavy influence on this too. There was something like 14-15 rejections of the SW playfield before it was approved by Disney. Assume the licensor directed, if not heavily scrutinized what the games art looked like.
REALLY you must be looking at a different art package. It might be up there with the worst I've ever seen on a modern game. That LE package is a total joke, and I NEVER said they didn't have an influence on the game. JJP's GNR is in an entirely different league when it comes to theme integration.... Its not even close
Quoted from chuckwurt:Did you even read what I wrote? Haha. You said stern phoned it in. I’m saying stern probably didn’t have much of a choice. How is that me saying I think the artwork is great? (Even though I do like the Pro and Prem cabinets and backglasses)
Come on man....of course they had a choice...its all about time and money....when comes to licensing Stern does the bare minimum (they can get away with it)...so yea Stern phoned it in
Quoted from Pinchild:Wrong! Sir Wrong!
Zeppelin has the if your very High and playing you may not care about anything factor.
Zep for the "W"
Good lord....its not even a close race....GNR by miles, and thats without seeing LZ's game play
Quoted from pinmister:Wow now that we have seen actual gameplay of LZ -it looks badass! Sorry haters but Zeppelin looks like a winner to me, can't wait to play it
You really think its badass? From what little I could see it looks pretty underwhelming to me although it was challenging to get the entire game experience with their shitty Facebook stream. Stern usually puts out really fun games, and I'm certain this one will be no different. That being said this is a Zep vs GNR thread, and from I could see Zep isnt in the same league as GNR....
Quoted from beelzeboob:But I actually think LZ looks like more fun to play than GNR...and isn't that what pinball's about? That's the problem with Pinside...an overreliance on amount of toys and artwork. I'll take empty and ugly with awesome gameplay any day of the week. AFM is the perfect example of this - that cabinet is simple as shit and has an empty (and ugly IMO) playfield, but one of the greatest games ever.
I totally disagree, but its a personal pref....that being said I totally agree with your AFM comment....such an incredible game, but that has a lot to do with theme integration....AFM sucks u into that world, which is what makes GNR so great.
Quoted from beelzeboob:I felt pretty sucked in watching that stream. And now I'll let you have the last word as well.
I'm happy that u got sucked in and enjoyed the game play.....I respect peoples opinions even though I don't agree with them. For the life of me I still can't understand why Stairway didnt make it in the game ....
Quoted from pinmister:Yes you are correct sir I was in on LZ a year ago so yes my mind was made up.
I also voted for LZ- but the Philly was a close second and JJP GNR came in third
Its awesome your excited about the game....I'd consider one if it had Stairway to Heaven....I'd love to hear why that song isn't on the play list...seems crazy to me
Quoted from Rolls-Royce:Agreed with you.... same happened when Aerosmith didn’t had "Dream On" on the list, that was a low blow IMO
Has anyone at Stern said why? The only explanation I can imagine is they didn't want to pay for it as clearly its one of their most iconic songs
Quoted from pinmister:Stairway is too slow bro-you would have to use cuts and it just does not work for pinball. The song list chosen is high energy Zeppelin songs. I feel they made a great selection, and do not forget about pinbrowser. Cleland's code on Ghostbusters makes the game a whole other animal.
No way....still would have worked great for a final wizard mode....
Quoted from pinmister:How? Without cuts? almost 8 minutes long-I don't think so
Come on man....U don't need the entire 8 minutes....
Quoted from PanzerFreak:What are you willing to pay though for an Attack from Mars. $6k Hell yeah. $7k? Sure. $8k? Maybe. $9k? No way. $10k? Hell no. If its fun though why not pay $10k? Why not $12k? No one would because it's not worth it. That's the issue some people are having with LZ, to them it lacks features to justify the price tag.
I paid $8K for my AFMRLE .... worth every penny
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Absolutely. I'm not sure how many people would pay $10k regardless of how much fun it is.
I don't know, but that topper is the best ....
Quoted from beelzeboob:It's not 10k, it's 9. And I have JP, STh, and LZ all in the LE editions and don't regret buying them at all. Worth every penny in the enjoyment I get out of them.
Is $9K the delivered price of a Stern LE these days?
Quoted from beelzeboob:Just north of that, depending on who you talk to.
Let's be clear: I don't think ANY pinball machine is really worth what we pay for them these days. But here's the way I think, and how I've gotten (brainwashed) my wife to think...
If I buy an LE for 9k and play it for 2 years before I get tired of it, even if it's a game that tanks in value I'd still be able to get 7k (or even more) when I sell it. Let's assume the worst and I get 7...the game cost me 2k for 24 months, or about $83 bucks a month for what amounts to a rental of the machine. For the amount of joy the game brings me during that time, I think it's a steal.
If I keep the game until I croak, it's still worth the money I paid because it's clearly one of my favorites so it's worth every penny.
It's all in how you look at it.
I like how u think 
The bottom line is if we really want something and can afford it we'll justify in any way possible.
Quoted from John_I:JJP CE is $3000 higher than the highest priced Stern
JJP CE = Batman SLE
JJP LE = Stern LE
JJP SE = Stern Pro + $1400
JJP's CE is 10X Sterns LZ LE so $3K doesn't sound like its high enough
Quoted from pinmister:LZ for the win! (gotta love the DK in background as well)[quoted image]
Can you really say with a straight face that a LZ LE is in the same league at JJP's GNR LE? Music is very subjective so I get that you like LZ music better (I think their both great), but the attention to detail, game play, and theme integration on GNR is 100X LZ's. The fact that JJP had all the assets, and clearly Stern had no interest in spending money on assets (which is pretty standard for Stern) is really what separates these two pins. The reality is if u don't like the music on the pin it probably won't last long in your collection. I had an iron maiden LE for a while, but the music was so bad I couldn't stand turning on the game.
Quoted from Psw757:Most of all of this is subjective such as art and music and I prefer LZ more in both cases.
Yes GNR may have more stuff on the PF but LZ pre/le appears to be a better shooter, I emphasize appears since no one has played LZ.
As for integration and content on the LCD I much prefer the retro vibe of LZ with the old footage and acid washing, tour posters, album covers etc.. more to come too according to designers.
Again most of this is subjective, LZ a better fit for me personally.
I’ve played GNR and I like it but don’t love it.
Its really not about the "stuff" its the overall game play and experience. Its hard to say how LZ shoots since nobody has played it and Stern reveal was a shit show. My guess it will be a nice shooter, but will get boring after a while due to the lack of things to do in the game....time will tell...GNR theme integration is on another level, but at the end of the day if u don't like the music u probably won't like the game
Quoted from thechakapakuni:Oh and BTW, the other LZ poll about the Artwork. Take the double L Pinsister
How are you even still talking with that broken glass jaw?
“Down goes Led Zeppelin Down goes Led Zeppelin”
[quoted image]
I personally think the artwork sucks, but the play field looks fine. At the end of the day u don't play the artwork. I mean if the game is great yet the artwork blows do u think people won't buy the game?
Quoted from madtown:Played many jjp games...didnt enjoy any really. Stern wins for me, not even close.
Based on your collection u clearly don't have high standards
Quoted from kermit24:After owning lots of Stern / WMS games, my first JJP purchase was GNR and I absolutely love it. They killed it. I wouldn’t discount them at this point.
This isn't a Stern versus JJP thread....its a GNR vs LZ thread....and like many have said its not even a fair fight...GNR by a country mile
Quoted from Psw757:No pinball is worth what we pay or provides value for what we pay BUT they make us all happy whether you like the theme or features and that is priceless in my opinion.
It’s nothing more than a escape from the crazy world we live in.
Well said
I find it wildly entertaining reading all the Stern Fanboys trying to argue that LZ is in the same league as GNR....I like both bands, designers, companies, etc so really have no preference, but to say that a ramp game with essentially zero toys plays better is quite frankly a joke. I get it that the game might have more flow due to the open play field, but give me a break.
Quoted from usandthem:Ice knows more than everyone else about everything. The fact that he is rich (and constantly lets you know about his stock market prowess) makes it true. Was he born with silver spoon in his mouth? Doesn't matter. The fact that he's rich means that he has superior intellect and knowledge about all topics (including pinball) that exceeds everyone else's.
or just possibly the guy has worked his ass off and has done well for himself. The reality is most people on this forum have a too much disposable income. How else can one justify paying $10K for a game let alone have several in your collection....
Quoted from romulusx:Watching IEpinball stream on twitch
GnR’s will keep us busy for months if not years so much going on
Stream was awesome...he's a good player...I'm surprised people say the game has no flow....
Quoted from kermit24:It was a great stream. Game is so deep.
Pretty typical JJP game....very deep, million ways to play the game, and there is no way u can walk up to the game, and throw a few quarters in and really understand the game....it takes a while
Quoted from TaTa:I myself am a construction worker in Philadelphia. I get up every day at 4:30 and come home at 3:30. I work hard for my money and have invested in real estate that I would go and work on from 3:30 to 10:00 at night. All these long days allowed me to buy some toys for myself. I also bought pinballs worked on them and sold them for more. So when I do make a pinball decision I remember the blood and sweat that went into it. And I'm extremely proud of being able to do so
Amen brother.....u worked your ass off, and now get to enjoy your hard work
Quoted from JY64:WTF are you talking about there is only one manufacturer that sells large numbers of games in the $10,000 neighborhood
Listen maybe math isn't your strong point, but if u pay $9.2K + tax + shipping for an Stern LE than your pretty close to $10K...so WTF are u talking about?
Quoted from JY64:Spend $10,000 play it for a while see if you like it
I'm planning to spend more....
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Quoted from JY64:I said " there is only one manufacturer that sells large numbers of games in the $10,000 neighborhood" 500 LE games is the same as JJP CE games do you say JJP games cost $12,500 of course not
Who cares....my point was he owns a shit ton of LE games, and clearly can afford them...I didn't say anything about who makes more or how rare they are.
Quoted from PokerJake:Anyone who pays tax on a machine is a moron and Sterns price includes shipping, not too mention you can get Sterns for $400-$500 under MSRP depending on the model.
Maybe so, but its the law in many states. So your telling me that u can get a Stern LE for $500 below MSRP + free shipping?....not saying it doesn't happen, but I highly doubt thats the norm.
Quoted from JY64:So you believe that they could not get the chest to open lets not forget the missing monkey they are cutting cost
My chest opened just fine
Quoted from beelzeboob:I'd like to remind everyone that LZ has more in the game than AFM. BOM and coil counts do NOT make for a great game. People are obsessed about the wrong stuff on this site simply because they're getting priced out of the hobby.
Be angry about the prices...you certainly are justified in that. But game design isn't the problem, whether you like the game or not.
It does?
Quoted from beelzeboob:It does. How many drop targets are in AFM? Unless you're talking about 4 aliens on a stick versus 1 Ick on a stick. Then, I suppose, you're right. Otherwise, it has more of just about everything else.
My guess is it has just as many shots. In regards to the BOM I wouldn't be surprised if its on par with LZ as they both have pretty open play fields. If the theme integration and software is anything close to AFM than it will be a success.
LZ looks like a fun game, but theres not much to do on the Pro. I do like how u can hit the ramps from both flippers, and with most SR games it shoots nice. In a small collection my guess is would get old pretty fast unless your in love with the band.
Quoted from Skyemont:This is a true statement. If LZ looked like GNR and vice versa, I would be man enough to say LZ kicked GNR’s ass. When you say it’s growing on you what you are trying to do is convince yourself to like it. Now that’s sad. LZ may be a ok pin but it’s no match for GNR. That’s fact!
My guess is if your an LZ fan you'll have fun with the game, but man the videos I watched it looked very uninspiring, and frankly boring. Now I'm sure the game will get better over time, but theres just not much to do in the game.
Quoted from beelzeboob:Yeah...you should hear the callouts in Wonka.
Wonka is 10X the game LZ is....
Quoted from Chuckwebster:is that the best comeback you got? you never answered the question of what toy GnR has, other than your desire for it to include a fleshlight.
Lets compare features ------
Flippers: GNR 3 full size 1 mini --- LZ 4 full size
Pops: Both have 3
Magnets: GNR 1 --- LZ 2
Ramps: GNR 3 plastic -- LZ 4 Stainless steel (as a restoration guy fully metal ramps are a huge upgrade)
Spinners: GNR 2 mechanical switch -- LZ 1 mechanical, 1 optical
Special feature: GNR spinning disc (same basic design used in the 70's) -- LZ new Electric Magic multifunction pop up spinner/ ball lock, kickback etc...
Scoop/Saucer: both have 1
Side rail lighting - both have it
Ball Diverter/gate: GNR -- 1 LZ 1
Drop targets: GNR 0 -- LZ 1
Leaper target: GNR 0 -- LZ 1
Upper playfield: GNR yes -- LZ no
Playfield ball lock: GNR 6ball passive -- LZ 1 ball motorized
When you actually break it down the games are similarly equipped mechanically with devices that interact with the ball.
Personally i think GNR and LZ look good and more than likely ill own both. Not everyone has the same tastes in games and thats fine, however If you're gonna say a game "sucks" at least back up your statement with some kind of facts.
I think u drank too much yesterday.....
I've owned a bunch of Sterns and all of the JJP games. What I've discovered over the years on JJP games is that it takes (at least for me) quite a while to fully understand the code since their usually so deep. I don't know if this is a good or bad thing, but its a fact. It took me quite a while to understand POTC, and Wonka. After u understand the code games get more immersive. Stern has great designers (most of them), and programmers. JJP basically has Eric, and Lawlor with the same team that codes all the games. Stern puts out 10 times more games than JJP, and that comes with a price. Typically that price is the code is very under developed and it could take years to fine tune. JJP puts out games with far more developed code since clearly the programmers have a lot more time to focus on the game. If u like LZ you'll probably enjoy the game. If u like GNR you'll probably enjoy the game. If u like both equally than its really not a fair fight as the attention to detail on GNR is off the charts so much so that Stern has ZERO chance at competing especially if your comparing Sterns LE to JJP's LE.
Quoted from snaroff:Another explanation (for it being "common") is many people don't know how to dial-in their flippers. My DILE flippers are incredibly strong...and they are on the default settings.
I've never really noticed weak flippers on any of my JJP games. I've tweaked the mechs a few times, but by no means have they ever felt weak.
Quoted from pinmister:So the LCD, Lightshow,and Art are better? You cannot play the LCD? You cannot play a lightshow? You cannot play Art?
Reminds me of Nigel-"Don't touch it-it cant be played!" LOL
Its all part of the package/experience....Listen if u like ramps and basically nothing else to do in the game go for LZ....if u actually like a real pinball game buy GNR .... of course theres more flow in LZ since all there is ramps, a cheap spring toy, and a $5 blimp ....
Quoted from pinmister:Worried people are getting Hypnotized by the flashy lights. Like a moth to the flame
JJP needs to put a warning sticker on GNR:
Caution:*Do not get Hypnotized by the flashy lights* Getting hypnotized will cause you to lose all rational thinking and you will start chanting "Everything is Awesome!" and ignore gameplay. [quoted image]
Laughable....your stretching hard now....I think if u really think (which I doubt u really do) that LZ is half the game GNR is than your the one who is hypnotized
Quoted from pinmister:I don't know I was playing Wonka last week and I seriously had to plunge 3 times on a particular ball? I was like-am I doing something wrong? Put a real spring in there or something?
Huh? I hit the skill shot almost every time....as your idol (SR) would say "Play Better"
Quoted from Elvishasleft:OK.. the people on this thread?
I dont care anymore man.
I hope you guys love your game, sorry I cant give it more high praise ( I cant do that for LZ either).
I'm curious as to what game u give high praise?....u hide your collection so hard to tell
Quoted from romulusx:Just a guess?
[quoted image]
The guy has such strong opinions, which is fine, but would like to know what games he actually thinks plays well. For all we know the guy doesn't own any games ?
Quoted from Elvishasleft:Funny. As I said more than once I actually like JJP games which is why I was disappointed in GNR.
I have owned Hobbit (which I bought because I love LOTR but quickly sold), Wonka, and happen to have a Dialed in currently
So much for the I must hate all JJP games and be a Stern fanboy theory.
I think Wonka is one of the best games anyone has done. period. Like all time top 10.
Well I have to agree about Wonka....by far one of the most under rated games
Quoted from Elvishasleft:Yah and you know else it is... pretty damn hard to learn and play.
I was hoping for more of the same with GNR but its back to hit anything in the game and it goes berzerk like WOZ.
Well thats point with JJP games....code is pretty complex, and it usually takes me a while to get a feel for the game. Wonka is complicated, not easy, very deep, but winnable....I got 4 GT tickets so its possible....my guess is GNR will be no different
Quoted from Elvishasleft:Any game where I can just slap the ball around and have a 5 minute ball and get multiball a few times (without even knowing what i did) is leaning the wrong way for me.
If you played like that on Wonka you would drain in 30 seconds.
More power to people who like that kind of game. Just not for me.
To each their own....I'm looking forward to the variety
Quoted from JY64:The irony is LZ will sell twice the games as G&R if for no other reason as the fact if Jack wants to put out TS he has only 12 months to manufacture games and even after ten years they still are struggling to put games out
There is no doubt that Stern can pump out games, but I highly doubt they will sell twice as many LZ's
Quoted from Chuckwebster:Stern has an entirely different sales model. By the time JJP finishes up the GNR run I would guess they'll make 2x as many GNRs over LZ's. However Stern will probably make 5X or more games overall spread out between multiple titles.
No doubt....
Quoted from beelzeboob:Dear Lameberger:
Yes. All 500 are sold out at the distributors. Not 5000. Both flippers are currently flipping their machines on Pinside. One person wants one but doesn't want to pay a premium for it. A distributor is selling one for an inflated cost on Ebay. That's the current status. Keep trying to convince yourself that everybody should think like you. It's getting pathetic.
With much love,
Boob
I will say that watching the dead flip stream the LE looked way better than the pro. I think the mech in middle helps, and the lighting on the sides is a nice touch. I have no doubt that if u love LZ you'll enjoy the game
Quoted from Thunderbird:But the issue is, when a person buys an LE they do it for the reason of being very limited. What happened with all the Batman SLE and LE’s at those low numbers? They really went up in value. A friend of mine here in Oz bought an SLE for $18k and sold it after a year or two for $36k, that is what very low numbers will do in the market place. 5,000 LEs are not worth the high price tag. Make it a premium and sell it for $2500 less like the competition does. Because in reality, other than the name LE, it is not really limited at 5k availability. So do what the competition does and call it a Premium. (I know people think and say it has more in it and it does, but not $2500 more plastics and coils in it.)
I know people say the JJP SE is the premium, but it’s really a pro. A better pro yes, but still a pro and also should be lowered in price. JJP is a very small company, trying to gain market share, but their marketing strategy is quite mixed up and will never be able to take on Stern unless they do what the very large competition does and get what some feel as a better product more inline price wise and numbers wise too. Pinball is a very small market, with very small numbers being sold worldwide, because of huge price tags on each offering for any and all companies.
R&M for $10k? Unbelievable pricing, yet even better than JJP, because it truly is a limited machine at only 750 machines. HUO prices will hold much better because of much smaller numbers. History bears what I’ve said above as the way it is in pinball. Only stating what history has shown us. It’s the law of supply and demand.
I agree that 5000 LE's is laughable, but its really about the LE package and not how rare the game is....if u want rarity than buy the CE
Quoted from Chuckwebster:Or maybe because Stern(Data east) had already done GnR and didn't want to rehash an old theme again.
[quoted image]
Slash knew exactly what company would actually allocate resources to build a kick ass game....
Quoted from Lamberger:that's the joke, the greatest band ever gets the shittiest stern design ever (except for Beatles). there's a million more way's they could have gone with this that would have been better but chose not to because it would have cost more... wish iron madden was LZ. I won't be buying this one, that's for sure. I'll just play any other game and listen to LZ. Seriously thinking about getting GnR and I hate the band, JJP knocked it out of the park.
Stern doesn't really care, because games keep selling.....JJP on the other hand still has to prove their worth, and start making money....the bottom line is JJP is really motivated to knock it out of the park.....Stern on the other hand is fine with getting on base.
Quoted from JY64:JJP is ten years old stop acting as if they are a startup
Didn't mention start up, but I did mention their focus is starting to turn a profit....
Quoted from Lamberger:I think LZ is a location pin with no locations. The stern factory line is working on the next title, if not right now.. very soon.
I couldn't agree more .... I actually think JJP pins are better suited for the home market
Quoted from PokerJake:Or the warped one is abnormal. Maybe all JJP playfields chip? There's a thread about JJP and Stern playfields issues. Stern takes care of there customers. I've had 4 bag boards sent from JJP and not one of them have worked. Went through 3 different avenues to get the issue fixed. Seems like they don't know what they're doing. Luckily DI is a great game.
Unlike Stern JJP is being proactive in testing all play fields prior to assembly. Theres even a quality stamp thats located under the apron. Whats Stern doing to address these issues? It appears absolutely nothing
Quoted from PokerJake:Optical illusion due to black ink, it's flat. Fantastic game as well. Easy for JJP to test each playfield when they make less than 1k total of each machine and have 2 years to make them before their next release. The percentage of affected machines is much lower with Stern than JJP due to volume.
The point is they are doing something about it....Stern completely ignores the problem
Quoted from PokerJake:How would you know? Stern has been much more accommodating than JJP when it comes to fixing issues.
Has Stern said something? Are they inspecting play fields? Clearly they are not as there is no indication they've solved any issues. In regards to your repair is that has not been my experience nor the experience of many I know....
Quoted from Psw757:Couldn’t vote for it this year, will be on ballot 2021.
Even with the great music I doubt LZ will be in the top 5
My guess is people who love LZ will enjoy the game. I love their music and at some point I might pick up a nice HUO Prem or LE. The pro looks like it would get boring fast, but I bet it does well on location. As an owner of all the JJP games, all I can say is it takes 30+ games to really start understanding whats going on as there are so many shots, and rules are very very complex and deep.
Quoted from Psw757:Your description is very accurate of JJP games and that is part of the problem. For the average person, super deep rules is a major turn off.
For a die hard at home it’s fantastic.
I can see your point. If u have the game at home and have the time to play game after game than they are hard to beat. Im on the fence on whether its a pro or a con. The pro is u can play the game for months and discover all kinds of new things. The con is if u don't play all the time u forget the rules. This is one of the reasons I love MM, and AFM so much. Rules are super simple to understand yet the game isn't easy to beat.
Quoted from Psw757:It is what it is, I love pinball and play a good bit at home but when I have my buddies over and the majority aren’t pinheads we don’t play POTC much. It’s just too much for the average person to digest in smaller samples.
It’s not good or bad just what I’ve noticed.
Same here....try explaining Wonka or POTC rules to newbies.....zero chance .... actually Williams IJ gets the most play at my house ...
I'm looking forward to LZ LE's, and Premiums hitting the market so I can pick up a nice used one in a year....
Quoted from beelzeboob:Good luck. You can't have mine. (And people said the same thing about STh...and now people seem to want them quite a bit more than a year ago.)
Don't be so sure you'll get a bargain...the LEs sold out pretty quickly. That happened with JP and the price hasn't moved much.
All good....anyways your far away
Quoted from Psw757:He may save a couple bucks on a premium but I don’t see the LE’s going down at all.
Premium works for me....same game and the art packages are equally as bad on both games so its all good.
Quoted from beelzeboob:That's what people said about ACDC as well...still a great game. Turn the damn lights off in your game room and you'll be fine.
My BIB has a bad ass art package....
Quoted from beelzeboob:I have the premium with cut rails. The game is ugly. It just is. The only benefit is I don't have to look at Angus's face on the pro. I'll take the blimp and nutless winged wonder on Zeppelin anyday.
AC/DC is my favorite band, but to be honest I don't really love the game play......the lower play field is worthless
Quoted from Psw757:They are catching up, in a matter of 10 days they built all 500 LZLE and are already delivering premiums. That’s impressive.
And for the record I’m not predicting GNR LE’s to lose much ground, maybe a 500 from MSRP hit once there are thousands in the wild.
Just my prediction based on market inventory, only reason POTC fetches what it does is because there just aren’t many of them in circulation.
Wow its amazing how fast they can pump out games....50 per day is impressive....JJP is like 50 per week
Quoted from PokerJake:Led Zeppelin plays infinitely better than GNR. It's skill, strategy and precision vs flashing lights and endless flailing multiballs.
Good lord u need to get out more.....
Quoted from PokerJake:lol, offended?
Not really, but after looking at your collection your comments make sense
Quoted from PokerJake:Thanks, I enjoy fun games. You don't have to take others opinions of toys personally.
I've owned a few of those....to be honest almost all games are fun in their own way...
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