Guns N' Roses (LE)
Jersey Jack, 2020You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider Elvishasleft.
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Quoted from Sako-TRG:Rumour has it - LZ all models will be shipping with one of these in the coin box.
Beats Eric’s Easter eggs!
Be curious of they play down all the "black magic" symbols and other stuff like that... its a big part of that band.
Jimmy Page was a practicing occultist after all.
I do love it on here when everyone judges a game they have never played once as a piece of shit... 
Ive actually played a bunch of GNR and it has a ton of stuff and looks cool, game play is meh.
End of day for me personally I'll take a great playing ugly ass game over any great looking game that plays meh.
The JJ stuff is all about cosmetics and how much crap can we put on the playfield... they are great at that. Gameplay? not so much.
Im not about to judge LZ a dud until ya know.. I actually play one. 
Quoted from beelzeboob:You must be lost. You clearly don't belong here. That made far too much sense.
Could be... I do play the things and not just mod them and rub them with a diaper once a week.
The freakout over the art just shows how many people buy these as a trophy and dont actually play them.
Same people that put up their machine for sale they bought NIB a year ago and it only has 25 plays.
Not sure what they do... turn it on stare at the lights and turn it back off?
I still think its weird when people say a "packed" playfield makes for a better game.
The main issue I have had with JJ games is they in general dont play great (and yes I have played them enough to say that).. too much shit on the playfield isnt always a good thing (WOZ and Hobbit being prime examples)
The one I have liked the best playability wise is probably the least packed which is Wonka.
GNR I didnt think played all that great... if it did I would probably have one.
Not everyone just cares about lights and how much shit is crammed in the game.
Quoted from romulusx:Mr Heck has spoken!!!
Yah but he is referring to a light show as to what makes it great... a light show during a cover tune no less.
So its heavy on the fluff.. seems allot of you like fluff in the cold November rain (whatever the fuck that is)
Not a ton of comments that its awesome for its gameplay that I can find.
Quoted from romulusx:Dude you are delusional
How so? See the post by Ben above me where he says "its not the best shooting game".
A few posts ago you think he's right on target now he's not because you disagree?
Game doesnt play that great... if it did i would have one.
It doesnt suck by any stretch but the package is way better than the play.
Quoted from benheck:I mean yeah, I remember when Iron Man came out, seemed empty and lame. It was actually the "straw that broke the camels back" and convinced Jack to start JJP (he called it "Junk Man")
But the game turned out to be brutal fun with a simple yet rewarding gameplay loop. Enough so that the initial run didn't meet demand and they vaulted it.
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Yah exactly.. another recent example is Star Wars which gets all kinds of shit and is probably one the best to come out in years (que the screaming and yelling about Star Wars sucking by people who have barely played it)
Its a hard game that is not easy to learn so if you arent that great a player or dont take the time to learn it you will hate it.
Those of us who dont suck at pinball love it. 
Quoted from usandthem:Ice knows more about everyone else about everything. The fact that he is rich (and constantly lets you know about his stock market prowess) makes it true. Was he born with silver spoon in his mouth? Doesn't matter. The fact that he's rich means that he has superior intellect and knowledge about all topics (including pinball) that exceeds everyone else's.
Hate to break it to you.. anyone who can afford this dopey hobby is "rich".
And pretty much everyone here thinks they know everything. 
Quoted from snaroff:Social media would be so much more tolerable if this happened more often! Eliminate a ton of BS...thanks Keefer Getting my LOTR back this week...one of his masterpieces!
If you say so...
Pretty surprised someone from a manufacturer feels the need to chime in on these dumpster fire threads.
Not the most professional thing in the world IMO.
Quoted from romulusx:He has every right and I’m glad he does speak up when someone has misspoken about the technical points of a game he worked on!
Right on Keefer!!!
Im surprised he does have the right.
In general companies try and keep their employees out of social media bullshit like this thread (many times by contract).
Not the most professional look for a company to have their employees popping off about market opinions right or wrong.
Quoted from pinmister:If you did that at Stern Gary would kick you to the curb. Seems like anyone at Stern is under strict protocol
Well yah they are which is why I am surprised someone at JJP is allowed to just pop off on any old thread.
Quoted from snaroff:Totally professional, IMHO. Surprised he has the right? WTF? Ridiculous.
If Pinsiders want the designers/programmers to listen to our feedback/issues, the designers/programmers have the right to speak up as well. Happens all the time in the Rick and Morty thread...Charlie, Scott, Eric all chime in when appropriate.
It's not like Keefer is saying anything negative about LZ, he is simply clarifying the design points of the game he worked hard on.
I dont care what he does... Im just surprised he would bother to comment.
Not the most mature thing to do IMO.
If you think its professional for him to comment in stupid threads like this than more power to you.
Most companies rise above (or restrict their employees from) slagging their competitors products on social media or potential customers for that matter.
Quoted from RA77:I applaud and appreciate designers and coders that take the time to monitor threads, it provides valuable feedback for them at times. I just feel bad and its unfortunate they have to wade through a lot of shit sometimes.
If Keefer or anyone involved with the games wishes to comment they should have the right to do so.
So where do you draw the line?
I thought GNR played pretty poorly (not a huge fan of LZ either) should he correct me on that also?
I dont think they need to be mute I just think popping off in a trolly thread comparing your game to a competitor wasnt the most mature thing to do.
Quoted from BC_Gambit:Given how many buyers are sheep in this hobby (tell me what game to by next threads etc.) having someone come in and correct factual inaccuracies (like overstating the number of flippers on LZ by "only" 100%) seems helpful.
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He has nothing better to be doing with his time?
Seems kind of petty.
Anyone can read the specs online, its not like its a mystery.
Quoted from pinmister:Clean that ear wax out bro-he is talking about Keefer coming into troll thread-now catch up
yah exactly... he is posting in an obvious troll thread and basically calling out and trolling a forum user.
Quoted from iceman44:You are way off base here Elvis on your non stop bashing of Keefer! Let it go.
No idea why people have to get their panties in a bunch over something so ridiculous.
If he wants to jump into troll threads then answer the real question.
Why do most of your games not play great? And I ask that sincerely as someone who owned a few JJP and has one now in the other room.
Stop bragging about how much shit is in the game and design a great playing game.
Or get Pat Lawlor back since he is the only one who has done so.
The two best playing JJP games are the two that got beat up on toys and bling (Wonka and Dialed in) and I think that speaks volumes.
Quoted from iceman44:Lol. That's just your opinion. There are plenty of JJP fanboys that love how their games play.
I mean i love my FUN playing Stern games and i've had my share of criticism for JJP but i'd say that's a bit harsh. How's he gonna answer that question when he's not the designer?
And he's entitled to speak his mind as much as anybody on here.
Just saying as a customer... and I am and have been one so my opinion is valid.
if people can say I cant buy LZ because of the art or how stripped down it is etc
I say I cant buy a GNR because it doesnt play great. Because it doesnt, I dont care about how much shit is in it, dont care about lights.
And yes its an opinion, but seeing how he just listed a big list of parts and toys and thats pretty much all you hear about I get where their focus is.
Just saying since its pinball they may want to re-think that at some point and focus less on "stuff" and do some better gameplay.
Quoted from Skyemont:Elvis needs to leave the building.
Whatever man... I play the stupid things and when they dont play great its disappointing.
Its not like I had my fingers crossed I wouldnt like it, I was looking forward to it.
Srry I cant jump on the game of the century bandwagon.
Quoted from iceman44:I am a customer too, of both, mostly Stern, in fact many Sterns and my valid "opinion" is that I love what i see in GNR and i think LZ sucks and is a barren wasteland.
It's just my opinion, and the only one that counts when it comes to where my $$ gets spent!
Its all good.. some people are on the "more stuff" side and some people just go for gameplay.
I love Star Wars and was there any more beat up game than that when it came out? .. maybe Munsters.
Ideally I would like both.. thats all Im saying. A JJP game with all the shit that actually plays killer?? Ill buy two.
They have yet to pull that off.
Quoted from benheck:Zep shoots smoother than GNR because it's mostly empty and the deep shots help the ball make smooth fast returns. This isn't to say GNR shoots badly, it doesn't, just that with more stuff you know IN THE GAME the ball has less freedom.
Other than that, the only advantage Zep vs GNR has is Stern can make them faster.
You guys are funny... Ben Heck says the same thing I have said a few times and you all upvote because its him saying it.
My suggestion for JJP is to stop worrying about stuffing every available inch of the game with crap and make a fast fun playing game. If any game should be a ripper fast shooter it should be their first rock pin.... it aint.
Oh and stop trying to blind me every time something happens in the games.
I'd like to buy the next one.. problem is if its Toy Story you just know that will be full to the tits with toys and other crap.
Quoted from snaroff:Maybe because Ben Heck is a respected member of the community AND pinball designer? You just showed up and have a keyboard swagger that is kind of hard to stomach.
I dont agree with everything you say therefore I am hard to stomach?
You just said the Beatles which may be the most disappointing game of the last decade is "inspired" so I guess we will agree to disagree here and there.
You can always ignore me if I annoy you by being honest.
Unlike most of the "GNR is the greatest of all time even though I have never played it" people I played it a bunch.
Its not that great of a player, if it was I would have one next to my other JJP game.
Quoted from Psw757:Beatles is a shit ton of fun and if you can separate price from game play most would agree.
Its fun if you like that style of game .... most modern players do not.
I dunno saying you want innovation etc and then fawning over an overpriced re-hash is a bit odd.
Quoted from Psw757:Modern players?
I’m a player and enjoyer of all pinball and it’s nice to have a fast old school shooter in a collection.
Its cool if you like it... I dont. thats life.
Same reason I rarely played pinball in the 70s and 80s. Didnt find the games fun until the 90s.
Quoted from benheck:Obviously LZ and GNR play differently. If you like open games with a lot of lateral ball movement than LZ is a good choice. It's an easier game too since you have oceans of time to nudge a missed shot towards a flipper.
But GNR is just a better package. The LCD work is better. The theme integration is better. The lightshow is amazing. The art is better (as in not atrocious)There's actually stuff in the game.
I agree 100%, wouldnt it be nice if JJP could combine the two and have a game with all the stuff that rocked to play also?
Its one or the other with them and has been since the clunkfest of WOZ.
You either get a good playing game with weaker theme and stuff (Dialed in, Wonka) or the exact opposite where all people talk about is lights and toys etc.
Quoted from Tranquilize:The good news is that you're just one dude. Lots of people like the gameplay and the themes of JJP. They sell games, and GnR was/is a smash hit.
I hate GnR (the band) more than most bands, and I generally don't like the look of the gameplay I've seen. That won't stop me from recognizing that I'm in the minority. If they keep doin' what they're doin', the only thing they have to worry about is an Elvis fan or two hating on them. Good place to be!
You guys are funny...
You cant say anything negative about GNR without getting piled on as a JJP hater.
In the same way people were disappointed in LZ art I was disappointed in GNRs game play.
Thats all.. I have owned a few of their games and have one still so how I am a JJP "hater" I have no idea.
Sorry that I actually played it before calling it game of the century unlike most of you. 
Quoted from Guinnesstime:I agree w/what I've seen w/this.
1) Awful, dribbling skill shot. A kick-ass rock pin with a short dribble death plunge? That's like, bases loaded. Clean up hitter is up. Let's bunt!
2) Center scoop. Unlike the skill shot, little skill needed
3) Endless multi/add-a-balls
It just felt like I could slap the ball around and something would happen (ooh look multi-ball or a new mode, did I do something?).
Maybe the difficultly level of Wonka (and slower sales) made them backpedal a bit into the hit anything and win a prize style of gameplay of WOZ and Hobbit.
Quoted from jalpert:I think you need to make the distinction between ball time and difficulty.
GNR is one of those games with long ball times, but if you don’t execute key plans, on key shots, at key times you just won’t score.
Just having a 10 minute game, especially on GNR, is not even close to successful if you don’t execute.
Yah I get that...
I think they go for the redemption game kind of thing so if you cant play you pay your money slap the ball around and the game goes nuts.
Their games are always deep as shit with code for the home players... whether that is a good thing or not I dont know since I didnt buy one.
If I cant get into the kinetics of it to begin with dont matter how deep the code is.
Quoted from snaroff:No...I actually agree with your general sentiment that JJP games often look much better than they play. The only JJP I've ever owned is DILE...it's a nice shooting game. If I loved the gameplay, I'd own more of them. I was actually signed up for a GNRLE and put it on hold until I get a chance to play one. Aesthetically, it's gorgeous and I like the collaboration with Slash.
You 'tude is what's hard to stomach...pretty arrogant.
Not sure how I come off as arrogant just giving an opinion as someone who actually played it a bunch.
I am just trying to be honest since most of the praise for this game is coming from people who haven't touched one yet.
Game of the year already based on the pictures... lol
If you like JJP games hands down Wonka is their best playing game IMO, I wouldnt even put GNR in the top 3 and I wanted to like it.
Maybe I would feel different if I had one at home but there was nothing about it playing wise that made me want to spend that kind of dough. Wish there was because i would have one here.
Quoted from Tranquilize:It's not that you're arrogant. It's that you're thick. Big difference.
If I had one on order I would want someone who actually played it to give me an honest opinion but whatever.
If you guys are happier saying its game of the year before even playing it more power to you.
Ill give you that one.. the pictures look great and it is packed with stuff.
Ill keep an eye out for all the for sales once you get the game home and realize I am right... maybe I can get a cheap used one later.
Quoted from jalpert:Is this true though? There are a few hundred out there now, most people I know have access to one. Usually not theirs but they know someone.
Not everyone, but most everyone.
OK.. the people on this thread?
I dont care anymore man.
I hope you guys love your game, sorry I cant give it more high praise ( I cant do that for LZ either).
Quoted from PtownPin:The guy has such strong opinions, which is fine, but would like to know what games he actually thinks plays well. For all we know the guy doesn't own any games ?
Funny. As I said more than once I actually like JJP games which is why I was disappointed in GNR.
I have owned Hobbit (which I bought because I love LOTR but quickly sold), Wonka, and happen to have a Dialed in currently
So much for the I must hate all JJP games and be a Stern fanboy theory.
I think Wonka is one of the best games anyone has done. period. Like all time top 10.
Quoted from PtownPin:Well I have to agree about Wonka....by far one of the most under rated games
Yah and you know else it is... pretty damn hard to learn and play.
I was hoping for more of the same with GNR but its back to hit anything in the game and it goes berzerk like WOZ.
Quoted from PtownPin:Well thats point with JJP games....code is pretty complex, and it usually takes me a while to get a feel for the game. Wonka is complicated, not easy, very deep, but winnable....I got 4 GT tickets so its possible....my guess is GNR will be no different
Any game where I can just slap the ball around and have a 5 minute ball and get multiball a few times (without even knowing what i did) is leaning the wrong way for me.
If you played like that on Wonka you would drain in 30 seconds.
More power to people who like that kind of game. Just not for me.
Quoted from PtownPin:To each their own....I'm looking forward to the variety
yah its all good... just an opinion.
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