Guns N' Roses (LE)
Jersey Jack, 2020Quoted from PokerJake:If you like to play pinball, LZ. If you like to look at lights, GNR.
Check with the man at IEPinball twitch stream and see how much fun GnR’s box of lights is.
Magic Girl = box of lights
GnR =box of hyper fun
LZ=box
Quoted from Hayfarmer:And hard to compare pro to le. Which i understand is all we have to compare now. Prem and le I think are much better than the pro
Not a fair comparison but I don’t think it will matter anyway. GNR is all around a better pin. Having full licensed rights make a very big difference. LZ is one of my favorite bands but this was a weak effort by Stern. Can’t do much without full licensed rights!
My only knock on gnr is gameplay I've seen on video. My opinion is center scoop is too important, so too much stop and go. As far as comparing lz to sw, I have no idea because I'm not a sci fi fan. Sw or st might be great games, just not for me. So, a long shooting, fast, good flow works for me. Enjoy your gnr ce, its definitely beautiful!
I do agree that Stern was probably restricted my license
Personally, I think Gary eff'd up big time on this title. LZ will do great on location, but the problem is..most locations are closed do to the pandemic. So your clientele right now is collector's... and from all of the forums talking disappointment right now.. I think that angle is a bust. Just a guess-mostly decided from people saying they would rather own GnR, and just play LZ when they see it.
Now Jersey Jack should be feeling pretty proud right about now, he delivered the perfect game at the perfect time. 5000Le's to collect. Great call on everything. Congratulations. Cheers Jack! well, when I see ya. Till then, maybe work on salvaging the LZ license! Praying to the rock gods. Happy New Year!
Quoted from Lamberger:Personally, I think Gary eff'd up big time on this title. LZ will do great on location, but the problem is..most locations are closed do to the pandemic. So your clientele right now is collector's... and from all of the forums talking disappointment right now.. I think that angle is a bust. Just a guess-mostly decided from people saying they would rather own GnR, and just play LZ when they see it.
Now Jersey Jack should be feeling pretty proud right about now, he delivered the perfect game at the perfect time. 5000Le's to collect. Great call on everything. Congratulations. Cheers Jack! well, when I see ya. Till then, maybe work on salvaging the LZ license! Praying to the rock gods. Happy New Year!
Is this for real? GNR is a perfect pin? Maybe English is your second language...
Quoted from Lamberger:Personally, I think Gary eff'd up big time on this title. LZ will do great on location, but the problem is..most locations are closed do to the pandemic. So your clientele right now is collector's... and from all of the forums talking disappointment right now.. I think that angle is a bust. Just a guess-mostly decided from people saying they would rather own GnR, and just play LZ when they see it.
Now Jersey Jack should be feeling pretty proud right about now, he delivered the perfect game at the perfect time. 5000Le's to collect. Great call on everything. Congratulations. Cheers Jack! well, when I see ya. Till then, maybe work on salvaging the LZ license! Praying to the rock gods. Happy New Year!
Where did you play them both to make your mind up?
Quoted from Lamberger:5000Le's to collect.
This is one of the more hilarious numbers ever created for a supposed Limited Edition. 5,000 of anything in pinball is completely laughable, it will never happen. Next new JJP machine that comes out will take the focus off of GNR and onto the new shiny. Nothing JJP has ever done has sold in the 5,000 range all combined, let alone on one title. 5k as a limited edition... again Lolololololol!!! (We’re talking pinball folks. Nothing is limited about the number 5k, it makes JJP look so silly for actually publishing that number.) GNR the game is fine as a pinball machine, not saying anything against it by itself, just the crazy high LE numbers.
Quoted from SWfan:Is this for real? GNR is a perfect pin? Maybe English is your second language...
KISS is a perfect Pin for me.... fan since kid, I like all the 10 songs in the game, I like the art, my Mods, artblades, lights, all colors, design, ramps. Etc, I simply enjoy the game a lot and I was able to choose the number on my LE, so probably my Guns N’ Roses Collector’s will be perfect for me too 
... and Led Zeppelin will be perfect for some of you too.
Quoted from Thunderbird:This is one of the more hilarious numbers ever created for a supposed Limited Edition. 5,000 of anything in pinball is completely laughable, it will never happen. Next new JJP machine that comes out will take the focus off of GNR and onto the new shiny. Nothing JJP has ever done has sold in the 5,000 range all combined, let alone on one title. 5k as a limited edition... again Lolololololol!!! (We’re talking pinball folks. Nothing is limited about the number 5k, it makes JJP look so silly for actually publishing that number.) GNR the game is fine as a pinball machine, not saying anything against it by itself, just the crazy high LE numbers.
But Thunder, I hated the other extreme in Batman66.... just 80 SLE, and 240 Limited Editions that’s a low blow for fans and collectors. I got LE #100 NIB, but I wished it was a SLE. So for GN’Roses fans 5,000 it’s a good chance to own a LE.
Quoted from Rolls-Royce:But Thunder, I hated the other extreme in Batman66.... just 80 SLE, and 240 Limited Editions that’s a low blow for fans and collectors. I got LE #100 NIB, but I wished it was a SLE. So for GN’Roses fans 5,000 it’s a good chance to own a LE.
But the issue is, when a person buys an LE they do it for the reason of being very limited. What happened with all the Batman SLE and LE’s at those low numbers? They really went up in value. A friend of mine here in Oz bought an SLE for $18k and sold it after a year or two for $36k, that is what very low numbers will do in the market place. 5,000 LEs are not worth the high price tag. Make it a premium and sell it for $2500 less like the competition does. Because in reality, other than the name LE, it is not really limited at 5k availability. So do what the competition does and call it a Premium. (I know people think and say it has more in it and it does, but not $2500 more plastics and coils in it.)
I know people say the JJP SE is the premium, but it’s really a pro. A better pro yes, but still a pro and also should be lowered in price. JJP is a very small company, trying to gain market share, but their marketing strategy is quite mixed up and will never be able to take on Stern unless they do what the very large competition does and get what some feel as a better product more inline price wise and numbers wise too. Pinball is a very small market, with very small numbers being sold worldwide, because of huge price tags on each offering for any and all companies.
R&M for $10k? Unbelievable pricing, yet even better than JJP, because it truly is a limited at only 750 machines. HUO prices will hold much better because of much smaller numbers. History bears out what I’ve said. Only stating what history has shown us. It’s the law of supply and demand.
Quoted from SWfan:Is this for real? GNR is a perfect pin? Maybe English is your second language...
Yes, when a buddy spoke to him last week... he said the LE's were at 4723. sold. I think that's a great accomplishment.
Like I said, collectors for that prefect game at the right time. Doesn't get better than that. Location pins are done for awhile.
Quoted from Lamberger:Yes, when a buddy spoke to him last week... he said the LE's were at 4723. sold.
That has to be some kind of record if true. How many have they built? Even a quarter of that? Going to take forever for them to catch up on that backlog. Good problem to have though.
Quoted from chuckwurt:That has to be some kind of record if true. How many have they built? Even a quarter of that? Going to take forever for them to catch up on that backlog. Good problem to have though.
I find it hard to believe they sold 4723 LE’s in 2.5 months, that would have to be an all time industry record for machines sold in that short of timespan.
Quoted from Psw757:I find it hard to believe they sold 4723 LE’s in 2.5 months, that would have to be an all time industry record for machines sold in that short of timespan.
It's not true, they haven't even sold 2000.
Quoted from Thunderbird:But the issue is, when a person buys an LE they do it for the reason of being very limited. What happened with all the Batman SLE and LE’s at those low numbers? They really went up in value. A friend of mine here in Oz bought an SLE for $18k and sold it after a year or two for $36k, that is what very low numbers will do in the market place. 5,000 LEs are not worth the high price tag. Make it a premium and sell it for $2500 less like the competition does. Because in reality, other than the name LE, it is not really limited at 5k availability. So do what the competition does and call it a Premium. (I know people think and say it has more in it and it does, but not $2500 more plastics and coils in it.)
I know people say the JJP SE is the premium, but it’s really a pro. A better pro yes, but still a pro and also should be lowered in price. JJP is a very small company, trying to gain market share, but their marketing strategy is quite mixed up and will never be able to take on Stern unless they do what the very large competition does and get what some feel as a better product more inline price wise and numbers wise too. Pinball is a very small market, with very small numbers being sold worldwide, because of huge price tags on each offering for any and all companies.
R&M for $10k? Unbelievable pricing, yet even better than JJP, because it truly is a limited machine at only 750 machines. HUO prices will hold much better because of much smaller numbers. History bears what I’ve said above as the way it is in pinball. Only stating what history has shown us. It’s the law of supply and demand.
I agree that 5000 LE's is laughable, but its really about the LE package and not how rare the game is....if u want rarity than buy the CE
I've never really cared about scores, I've always been a lot more into modes. With GNR though, an applause jackpot is such a huge event, for the first time ever in this hobby I know what my high score was. And trying to beat it, the risk and execution it will take, has you constantly coming back for more.
It still has traditional modes though, 4 mini wizard modes and a main (which I don't think is there yet).
Quoted from PokerJake:It's not true, they haven't even sold 2000.
Are you the pinball fan / pilot that recently performed a dropped test of LZ and GNR from an airplane at 10,000 feet? Is it true the GNR dropped like a brick due to its weight from multiple toys and features but the LZ glided to safety due to its "high flow" design of little on the playfield, and cheaper parts?
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Are you the pinball fan / pilot that recently performed a dropped test of LZ and GNR from an airplane at 10,000 feet? Is it true the GNR dropped like a brick due to its weight from multiple toys and features but the LZ glided to safety due to its "high flow" design of little on the playfield, and cheaper parts?
Heavier isn’t implied assumption of being better and this goes for just about any consumer product or really anything for that matter.
And the weight difference certainly isn’t in the plastic and rubberized toys that total maybe 2-3lbs at best.
Quoted from Thunderbird:R&M for $10k? Unbelievable pricing, yet even better than JJP, because it truly is a limited machine at only 750 machines. HUO prices will hold much better because of much smaller numbers. History bears what I’ve said above as the way it is in pinball. Only stating what history has shown us. It’s the law of supply and demand.
I agree, other factors that make it a fair price:
- It's a modern, loved theme (that was picked up by HBO IIRC).
- It's a killer game that serious pinball players will love (because it's challenging).
The fan base for R&M is huge. I also ended up getting the butter cabinet, which is a feature that makes it even more limited (and isn't being done by any other pinball manufacturer). I thought they were "RadCals", but I was pleasantly surprised that the art is directly printed and cleared...just like a playfield. To be honest, my R&M cabinet looks nicer than some of the recent Stern PF's I've seen
Quoted from Psw757:Heavier isn’t implied assumption of being better and this goes for just about any consumer product or really anything for that matter.
And the weight difference certainly isn’t in the plastic and rubberized toys that total maybe 2-3lbs at best.
I'm not a fan of JJP's extra 100+ lbs. when compared with Sterns. The extra weight makes it impractical to move upstairs.
Quoted from snaroff:I'm not a fan of JJP's extra 100+ lbs. when compared with Sterns. The extra weight makes it impractical to move upstairs.
I agree and is one of the reasons I probably won’t sell my POTC even though tempted.
I just don’t feel like dealing with it, lol
Quoted from Psw757:I’m in for a Led Zepp machine with what I think are rockin songs and good art, one of my favorite bands.
Hard to get excited for GNR although I do like them and I think it’s because I find the DE machine to be a perfectly fine machine that didn’t need a mulligan.
No more retreads for themes!
Plus the DE machines plays better
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Are you the pinball fan / pilot that recently performed a dropped test of LZ and GNR from an airplane at 10,000 feet? Is it true the GNR dropped like a brick due to its weight from multiple toys and features but the LZ glided to safety due to its "high flow" design of little on the playfield, and cheaper parts?
That'd be fun. Are you saying the LZ is indestructible? Hell yeah!
Quoted from PokerJake:That'd be fun. Are you saying the LZ is indestructible? Hell yeah!
Hes a panzer freak, so he's saying lz is built like a tank 
Indestructible
Quoted from snaroff:I agree, other factors that make it a fair price:
- It's a modern, loved theme (that was picked up by HBO IIRC).
- It's a killer game that serious pinball players will love (because it's challenging).
The fan base for R&M is huge. I also ended up getting the butter cabinet, which is a feature that makes it even more limited (and isn't being done by any other pinball manufacturer). I thought they were "RadCals", but I was pleasantly surprised that the art is directly printed and cleared...just like a playfield. To be honest, my R&M cabinet looks nicer than some of the recent Stern PF's I've seenI'm not a fan of JJP's extra 100+ lbs. when compared with Sterns. The extra weight makes it impractical to move upstairs.
R&M is really perfect for pinball. Really smart move by spooky.
Stern machines are so lightweight and easy to move, that i consider tiltwarnings extraballs.
I don’t buy JJP LE because they are very limited (because they’re not). If I wanted the very limited I’d get a CE. I buy the LE because of the feature set.
Quoted from Thunderbird:But the issue is, when a person buys an LE they do it for the reason of being very limited. What happened with all the Batman SLE and LE’s at those low numbers? They really went up in value. A friend of mine here in Oz bought an SLE for $18k and sold it after a year or two for $36k, that is what very low numbers will do in the market place. 5,000 LEs are not worth the high price tag. Make it a premium and sell it for $2500 less like the competition does. Because in reality, other than the name LE, it is not really limited at 5k availability. So do what the competition does and call it a Premium. (I know people think and say it has more in it and it does, but not $2500 more plastics and coils in it.)
I know people say the JJP SE is the premium, but it’s really a pro. A better pro yes, but still a pro and also should be lowered in price. JJP is a very small company, trying to gain market share, but their marketing strategy is quite mixed up and will never be able to take on Stern unless they do what the very large competition does and get what some feel as a better product more inline price wise and numbers wise too. Pinball is a very small market, with very small numbers being sold worldwide, because of huge price tags on each offering for any and all companies.
R&M for $10k? Unbelievable pricing, yet even better than JJP, because it truly is a limited machine at only 750 machines. HUO prices will hold much better because of much smaller numbers. History bears what I’ve said above as the way it is in pinball. Only stating what history has shown us. It’s the law of supply and demand.
Quoted from snaroff:I'm not a fan of JJP's extra 100+ lbs. when compared with Sterns. The extra weight makes it impractical to move upstairs.
My escalera does not notice the difference.
Quoted from f3honda4me:My escalera does not notice the difference.
Maybe for your staircase, but I had a really experienced pinball mover here with an escalera and he gave up after the 2nd or 3rd stair. He ended up taking SWLE upstairs instead...and it took him 40 minutes with the fancy escalera.
IMG_2754 (resized).jpegQuoted from chuckwurt:That has to be some kind of record if true. How many have they built? Even a quarter of that? Going to take forever for them to catch up on that backlog. Good problem to have though.
A very good problem to have and even better if they follow it up with an ass kicking Toy Story the money will be flowin!What I’m curious about is the following titles they can really turn things around
Quoted from snaroff:Maybe for your staircase, but I had a really experienced pinball mover here with an escalera and he gave up after the 2nd or 3rd stair. He ended up taking SWLE upstairs instead...and it took him 40 minutes with the fancy escalera.
[quoted image]
There is no way in hell my wife would tolerate that! Lmao!
Quoted from f3honda4me:I don’t buy JJP LE because they are very limited (because they’re not). If I wanted the very limited I’d get a CE. I buy the LE because of the feature set.
The most limited model will be the SE. sounds like everyone is bumping up to the LE/CE
Quoted from Pinchild:Still waiting on my GNR but ZP it hella fun to play!!
Super stoked it didn't suck.
It was never going to suck! Unless you listen to a certain few idiots who have never seen, played or had any interest in buying. Never understood people like that, but maybe it makes em happy
Quoted from snaroff:Maybe for your staircase, but I had a really experienced pinball mover here with an escalera and he gave up after the 2nd or 3rd stair. He ended up taking SWLE upstairs instead...and it took him 40 minutes with the fancy escalera.
[quoted image]
Blue dog is blue! My daughter had a kids book with that art; I did not know it was well known enough to be collected like that!
Quoted from Hayfarmer:It was never going to suck! Unless you listen to a certain few idiots who have never seen, played or had any interest in buying. Never understood people like that, but maybe it makes em happy
People like different things. The things I love suck to other people. Never understood people that can't unerstand that. Maybe they're living in a bubble. 
Quoted from Hayfarmer:It was never going to suck! Unless you listen to a certain few idiots who have never seen, played or had any interest in buying. Never understood people like that, but maybe it makes em happy
You never know Musters sucked in a big way 4 me.
I think the original argument was just the artwork and then it morphed into Stern vs JJP battle.
And the other obvious criticism from most was how empty the LZ looked
Better art and vacant playfield are obvious the gameplay was argumentative
Quoted from Tranquilize:People like different things. The things I love suck to other people. Never understood people that can't unerstand that. Maybe they're living in a bubble.
Yes, but why can't people say their piece, then move on? To regurgitate the same thing over and over and over and over makes no sense. Don't like, don't buy. Easy 
Gameplay is subjective of course. They both play fine. I just think (as do many others) that if you look at the packages as a whole GNR just seems like a lot more effort was put into it.
And it's Stern. Nobody makes games as fast as they do. If you don't like LZ, just wait four months for the next one!
Quoted from Hayfarmer:Yes, but why can't people say their piece, then move on? To regurgitate the same thing over and over and over and over makes no sense. Don't like, don't buy. Easy
The same can be said to those who want to rehash celebrating a specific machine. Debate is fun for both sides. You might see LZ as a great machine, while I see it as a cheap, rehashed fan layout that is worse than usual. I'm interested in hearing what you like about it. If you're not interested in hearing what I dislike about it, you can start by ignoring me and everyone who disagrees with your point of view. Don't like what you're reading? Don't read. Easy.
Quoted from Tranquilize:The same can be said to those who want to rehash celebrating a specific machine. Debate is fun for both sides. You might see LZ as a great machine, while I see it as a cheap, rehashed fan layout that is worse than usual. I'm interested in hearing what you like about it. If you're not interested in hearing what I dislike about it, you can start by ignoring me and everyone who disagrees with your point of view. Don't like what you're reading? Don't read. Easy.
Haha, you're a funny guy. Its great to debate something, but at least be original. Gnr is gorgeous for sure. Long wait, more money, seems like lots of issues. Im still looking forward to playing it, have never said its shit like people do. I'd quote your last sentence, but since you copied me, it would be redundant, which is what I'm trying to say people are doing. Bring in a new angle, maybe after we've all played more than once. Me included 
Quoted from Tranquilize:The same can be said to those who want to rehash celebrating a specific machine. Debate is fun for both sides. You might see LZ as a great machine, while I see it as a cheap, rehashed fan layout that is worse than usual. I'm interested in hearing what you like about it. If you're not interested in hearing what I dislike about it, you can start by ignoring me and everyone who disagrees with your point of view. Don't like what you're reading? Don't read. Easy.
So true. I really appreciate hearing positive and negative comments...particularly from Pinsiders with vast experience. It's just a fact that Stern's are "cheaper" than JJP games. Sure Stern's are actually cheaper as well, but when you compare almost any recent Stern LE with a JJP LE, it's clear you are getting a lot more for your money. Does the "stuff" translate into more fun? That's the subjective part
Quoted from Hayfarmer:What i really find funny is you 2 don't even contribute to pinside financially. How come?
Lol. Where the hell did that come from?
Quoted from Tranquilize:The same can be said to those who want to rehash celebrating a specific machine. Debate is fun for both sides. You might see LZ as a great machine, while I see it as a cheap, rehashed fan layout that is worse than usual. I'm interested in hearing what you like about it. If you're not interested in hearing what I dislike about it, you can start by ignoring me and everyone who disagrees with your point of view. Don't like what you're reading? Don't read. Easy.
I Love JJP I'm telling you the ZP is a fantastic fun unique game.
Check my owned in past as well s current.
Definitely worth owning for a year or so
Quoted from Pinchild:I Love JJP I'm telling you the ZP is a fantastic fun unique game.
Check my owned in past as well s current.
Definitely worth owning for a year or so
I'm not a year or two kinda guy, but I'm glad you like it!
Quoted from Tranquilize:I'm not a year or two kinda guy, but I'm glad you like it!
How long do you hold on to them? And how many plays do you put on your games?
Been spending some time on both games since they arrived Saturday. I had really low expectations for LZ, but it’s actually pretty fun and the shots are very smooth. The upper flipper is kind of useless and when you do use it, it’s really risky. I don’t fully know what I’m doing yet, but It needs a lot more code, pretty basic stuff. Good sound and I love playing to the music. The light bars on the premium and le are going to be sweet. I might need to get them for my pro. Cabinet is already pre-cut for them on my pro. Zero issues out of the box.
GnR is entirely different. Here too I don’t know what I’m doing yet, but it shoots well. Reminds of woz in terms of the feel of the play and the flippers; Different than the other jjp games. Great use of assets and integration. So much going on, so many shots. The game goes dark quite a bit, hard to track the ball some times, but the effects are very cool. No issues to speak of out of the box.
Not the best reviews, I know, but both games are good and I have fun playing both.
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:How long do you hold on to them? And how many plays do you put on your games?
I rarely sell games at all. I try to buy games that I know I'll love forever. I have more games in my basement than most of the arcades I went to as a kid. I don't see the need to rotate.
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