I just explained why this "common complaint so it must be true" thing is extremely flawed in general, but especially when it comes to hyper emotional pinballers... as usual it is hard to convince someone when they have decided to make up their mind on it. I am open to other evidence, but my JJP games seem fine. If anything, my JP flippers are overpowered even after dialing them down. Maybe some people are only satisfied when the flippers are so strong that airballs are the norm? Explains the cratered playfields more...

I've owned a bunch of Sterns and all of the JJP games. What I've discovered over the years on JJP games is that it takes (at least for me) quite a while to fully understand the code since their usually so deep. I don't know if this is a good or bad thing, but its a fact. It took me quite a while to understand POTC, and Wonka. After u understand the code games get more immersive. Stern has great designers (most of them), and programmers. JJP basically has Eric, and Lawlor with the same team that codes all the games. Stern puts out 10 times more games than JJP, and that comes with a price. Typically that price is the code is very under developed and it could take years to fine tune. JJP puts out games with far more developed code since clearly the programmers have a lot more time to focus on the game. If u like LZ you'll probably enjoy the game. If u like GNR you'll probably enjoy the game. If u like both equally than its really not a fair fight as the attention to detail on GNR is off the charts so much so that Stern has ZERO chance at competing especially if your comparing Sterns LE to JJP's LE.

You can buy my LE... I am selling it to fund my GnR LE

OK now I've played both. (Zep Pro)

Zep shoots well, very fast returns and flow. Ritchie game after all! But yes, it's very stripped down though not as empty feeling as BK3 Pro. Along with the fake kickback there isn't even a "ball hold pause" for the Zeppelin virtual lock. It just races through.

Unlike other Richie games missed shots are fairly forgiving, probably because most of the stuff is far back on the PF. It's also very Star Trekky where the modes are just "shoot colored arrows". Also the upper flipper is almost entirely pointless, all it does is shoot into an TAF like "train wreck" shot. LCD work is also pretty meh.

Music isn't really "pinball-Y" Whine about a McCartney remake all you want but it's better than the 2 minute bridge of "Whole Lotta Love" which makes the game feel dead for half the song. It's cool how you can change songs per ball but weird how they don't stop playing even after a drain until you choose change them.

So yes, it shoots smoother than GNR. Every other aspect, GNR by a country mile.

Another explanation (for it being "common") is many people don't know how to dial-in their flippers. My DILE flippers are incredibly strong...and they are on the default settings.

I've never really noticed weak flippers on any of my JJP games. I've tweaked the mechs a few times, but by no means have they ever felt weak.

Coffee came out my nose just now. You are funny little guy. LMAO.

So Mark1971 obviously loves the band, big f-ing deal! Me too! What does that have to do with the game? You are losing it...

There is no hope for the boy, he knows GNR kicked its ass down the street but he keeps coming back to get punched in the face. I love it.

Listen little boy. If you like Zizzles that’s your problem not ours. Trades. You are stupid as crap. I have had most of my collection of same games for 5-10 years. Your just flat out ignorant. Have you played your Zizzle LZ?

Zep shoots smoother than GNR because it's mostly empty and the deep shots help the ball make smooth fast returns. This isn't to say GNR shoots badly, it doesn't, just that with more stuff you know IN THE GAME the ball has less freedom.

Other than that, the only advantage Zep vs GNR has is Stern can make them faster.

Ramps&Loops Loops&Ramp faster faster faster oh spinner the best spinner ever created spinner faster faster faster!!!

Meanwhile Pinmister cheerleading for Stern
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This isnt correct. Beatles is the greatest band of all time. By a land-slide.
If you include bandmembers individual success it gets even worse.
Beatles simply destroy all competition and including bandmember success LZ is also easily passed by genesis and eagles.

You guys are funny... Ben Heck says the same thing I have said a few times and you all upvote because its him saying it.

My suggestion for JJP is to stop worrying about stuffing every available inch of the game with crap and make a fast fun playing game. If any game should be a ripper fast shooter it should be their first rock pin.... it aint.

Oh and stop trying to blind me every time something happens in the games.

I'd like to buy the next one.. problem is if its Toy Story you just know that will be full to the tits with toys and other crap.

Thanks for confirming, but plainly obvious based on the released videos.

LZ fans seem to be in denial. Cracks me up that people still criticize Beatles for being too stark/expensive...the same people who aren't able to admit that LZ is pretty darn stark. Beatles is an inspired game...drawing on a past design and taking it to the next level was a gamble that paid off...maybe not for Stern, but for Beatles and pinball fans. As someone that digs the 80's games, having an 80's inspired and modernized game was fresh. Something different. Maybe LZ has something "fresh", but I'm not seeing yet. The BOM certainly doesn't make a game, but the aesthetics of GNR are awesome. Look forward to playing it.

Maybe because Ben Heck is a respected member of the community AND pinball designer? You just showed up and have a keyboard swagger that is kind of hard to stomach.

Both bands are great. Gnr more modern. The usual LZ mid-song lsd flash is probably puzzling and not so appriciated by a younger audience.

Can or will JJP ever make a fast pin like a Stern, been wanting to see them do it. It appears to me from the pics (since I have not played) the GNR new game does not have that many packed stuff like past JJP games. If LZ plays like the Ritchie Star Trek (which is one of my favorites) I will enjoy even not being a huge LZ fan. I love Maiden and asked for it to get made for years, it’s fun and fast but too repetitive or middle of the game always being played with toys missing that I wanted more like the Metallica pin.

I dont agree with everything you say therefore I am hard to stomach?

You just said the Beatles which may be the most disappointing game of the last decade is "inspired" so I guess we will agree to disagree here and there.

You can always ignore me if I annoy you by being honest.

Unlike most of the "GNR is the greatest of all time even though I have never played it" people I played it a bunch.

Its not that great of a player, if it was I would have one next to my other JJP game.

Beatles is a shit ton of fun and if you can separate price from game play most would agree.

I have mine and it's Amazing!!!!

It's not that they are weak in power. They just sound different, and feel a lot slower. Not much "snap" into them like other flippers, especially new Sterns.

Its fun if you like that style of game .... most modern players do not.

I dunno saying you want innovation etc and then fawning over an overpriced re-hash is a bit odd.

Modern players?

I’m a player and enjoyer of all pinball and it’s nice to have a fast old school shooter in a collection.

Its cool if you like it... I dont. thats life.

Same reason I rarely played pinball in the 70s and 80s. Didnt find the games fun until the 90s.

Damn Capt Stern you are having a breakdown!Fucking relax man it’s ok if some people like GnR.

Obviously LZ and GNR play differently. If you like open games with a lot of lateral ball movement than LZ is a good choice. It's an easier game too since you have oceans of time to nudge a missed shot towards a flipper.

But GNR is just a better package. The LCD work is better. The theme integration is better. The lightshow is amazing. The art is better (as in not atrocious)There's actually stuff in the game.

I agree 100%, wouldnt it be nice if JJP could combine the two and have a game with all the stuff that rocked to play also?

Its one or the other with them and has been since the clunkfest of WOZ.

You either get a good playing game with weaker theme and stuff (Dialed in, Wonka) or the exact opposite where all people talk about is lights and toys etc.

The good news is that you're just one dude. Lots of people like the gameplay and the themes of JJP. They sell games, and GnR was/is a smash hit.

I hate GnR (the band) more than most bands, and I generally don't like the look of the gameplay I've seen. That won't stop me from recognizing that I'm in the minority. If they keep doin' what they're doin', the only thing they have to worry about is an Elvis fan or two hating on them. Good place to be!

You guys are funny...

You cant say anything negative about GNR without getting piled on as a JJP hater.

In the same way people were disappointed in LZ art I was disappointed in GNRs game play.

Thats all.. I have owned a few of their games and have one still so how I am a JJP "hater" I have no idea.

Sorry that I actually played it before calling it game of the century unlike most of you.

Rolling Stones magazine has been irrelevant for decades now. Tommy Lee from Motley Crue is by far the greatest drummer ever to exist. and I'm very happy for you that you were able to make your own personal troll thread! Pathetic absolutely pathetic

Its all part of the package/experience....Listen if u like ramps and basically nothing else to do in the game go for LZ....if u actually like a real pinball game buy GNR .... of course theres more flow in LZ since all there is ramps, a cheap spring toy, and a $5 blimp ....