If he wants to jump into troll threads then answer the real question.

Why do most of your games not play great? And I ask that sincerely as someone who owned a few JJP and has one now in the other room.

Stop bragging about how much shit is in the game and design a great playing game.

Or get Pat Lawlor back since he is the only one who has done so.

The two best playing JJP games are the two that got beat up on toys and bling (Wonka and Dialed in) and I think that speaks volumes.

Lol. That's just your opinion. There are plenty of JJP fanboys that love how their games play.

I mean i love my FUN playing Stern games and i've had my share of criticism for JJP but i'd say that's a bit harsh. How's he gonna answer that question when he's not the designer?

And he's entitled to speak his mind as much as anybody on here.

Elvis needs to leave the building.

Just saying as a customer... and I am and have been one so my opinion is valid.

if people can say I cant buy LZ because of the art or how stripped down it is etc

I say I cant buy a GNR because it doesnt play great. Because it doesnt, I dont care about how much shit is in it, dont care about lights.

And yes its an opinion, but seeing how he just listed a big list of parts and toys and thats pretty much all you hear about I get where their focus is.

Just saying since its pinball they may want to re-think that at some point and focus less on "stuff" and do some better gameplay.

Whatever man... I play the stupid things and when they dont play great its disappointing.

Its not like I had my fingers crossed I wouldnt like it, I was looking forward to it.

Srry I cant jump on the game of the century bandwagon.

I am a customer too, of both, mostly Stern, in fact many Sterns and my valid "opinion" is that I love what i see in GNR and i think LZ sucks and is a barren wasteland.

Just like you are entitled to yours. It's just pinball, no need to get bent out of shape.

It's just my opinion, and the only one that counts when it comes to where my $$ gets spent!

Its all good.. some people are on the "more stuff" side and some people just go for gameplay.

I love Star Wars and was there any more beat up game than that when it came out? .. maybe Munsters.

Ideally I would like both.. thats all Im saying. A JJP game with all the shit that actually plays killer?? Ill buy two.

They have yet to pull that off.

I agree with this sentiment. Granted, this IS a troll thread, but it's quite interesting how much vitriol seems to exist beyond just playful banter.

And since this is a troll thread...

Any bullet point based arguments are absolutely pointless. I do appreciate fact checking when such arguments do happen, as I never like any product that has had man-years of effort poured into it being misrepresented.

Any way you slice it, the LZ machine seems like a "phoned in" effort when compared to GnR. I mean, Slash literally contributed to the machine unlike any other music themed pin in history. Arguing with this fact is simply pointless. Stern has a different business model IMO.

All that being said, Stern has a knack for making machines that play really really well. Iron Maiden is one of the best pins ever. Besides the fact that Elwin hasn't really missed a beat yet (IMO), I LOVED my Star Wars Premium, and despite a lot of folks opinions, I really think BKSoR is a great shooter. All in all, I don't agree with the notion that Steve Ritchie has lost his touch.

Lastly, I love this thread. It's fun to see all of the different opinions and occasionally seeing someone insert their foot in their mouth.

Happy new year! It's as good of a time as ever for Pinball!

PS>

I'd argue that all of the JJP'S play killer. I won't argue about most of them not having the "flow" of Ritchie or Elwin games. Dialed In and Wonka are really good shooters. And JJP POTC is epic overall. But maybe "plays killer" has a specific definition I'm uninformed about..

Some will not like GNR. It’s all good. But this will be the game of the year. I’m counting the days til I get mine. If it was not for JJP in 2013, I was thinking about getting out of pinball. Bally, Williams are the only companies that kept me interested til Jack created JJP. Sterns do nothing for me but I’m glad they are still around.

Yeah you called it correct, GNR IS GOTY.

The poll on this thread already says everything you need to know on who won the rock pin battle, but the GOTY will be the icing on the cake
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Variety is the spice of life brother! Yeah i'm looking at GNR for the total "experience", I've got great playing Stern games and with LZ, it feels like i've already played it many times before. I'd rather go back and buy AC/DC again, or SM.

Munsters is a fun game that plays excellent. It's the code that is very weak. Another game that is really good that gets wrongly destroyed is Stranger Things. But it's a ball busting drain monster!

Unless some other company picks up the pace, I see this game being #1 for a very long time. Trust me I have some great pins but this game is in a different league. Comparing another game to GNR makes me laugh.

How many times have you played lz? Until its played, how can it be accurately judged? Same with gnr. I guess I'm not as good as you all, I have to actually play before I decide if I like or not

Anyone who uses a pinside poll as a basis for an argument has zero credibility.

You should probably stay away from GnR because according to this scientifically accurate pinside poll you have a better than 50% chance of getting a GnR with playfield issues

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pollis-there-an-issue-with-your-gnr-playfield

I’ve played GNR. It’s phenomenal. My game will be here Monday or Tuesday.

However, give JP a real serious look. Sterns are great too, JP is crazy good. There must be a stern out there for you.

Metallica was involved on their game, band members also do most of the callouts. Wish one said, "dude, you just went balls deep into that snakes mouth!"
If Iron Maiden was Led Zeppelin, Sold!

I have owned over 15 Sterns just no staying power. Maybe one day. If they make Beetlejuice or BTTF maybe. But I’m afraid it would be a LZ.

Every pin ever made is repetitive. Lol. Everytime you hit the start button you are trying to do the same thing and do the same modes goals.

These threads are stupid. Every game is subjective to each person. Whats the point really?

Some people will like GnR some will like LZ.

Who cares?

Then laugh. Why do you care what others think? Does it keep you up at night if there is one person out there that likes LZ?

Things must be good out there for so many to be upset about you likes and doesn't like a pinball game.

I love pinball and GNR. Happy New Year! Bless everyone.

Anybody that thinks this poll was referring to anything other than a Pinside poll comparing 2 pinball machines isn’t credible.

The poll is a Pinside poll comparing LZ to GNR and LZ lost. Its a has a bar graph and numbers for simplicity, that’s why Pinside created these for us to use. It’s Pinside Science!

The only trolls here are you and Elvis. You can judge a game quite a bit based on video. It's just the truth so get over it. And if you don't like your own thread, go away.

You are nuts! What the F is wrong with you. YES I have played it. A friend has a LE. It’s fantastic. Do you want to tell me I didn’t have eggs this morning for breakfast? I just did and they were great.

Thank you very much uh huh now leave the building!

Gottem!

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Really? Guess you haven't played BKSOR then.
I have that game and it is repetitive as shit. 2 multiballs and 5 monsters to battle.

I guess your right. 5 monsters to battle is way better than playing through 21 songs.

I'm sure LZ may be fun. Nobody has played it so who knows.

I don’t see anybody outside the Landcruiser in awe

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Just two points here!
Have you played Wonka?The game plays smoother and faster then 85% of pins out there.Dialed In is another fast pin,if you know what your doing and their both deep which means a lot of replay value.
Question What the hell is with you and Pearl clutching did you mother wear pearls and beat you with a metal clothes hanger?

Wonka and DI are anything but fast. They flow but the weak JJP flippers let you take a nap while the ball travels around the ramps. DI is a great game. I guess Wonka was fast, at leaving, still my shortest owned game at 3 weeks. It has a decent layout but the code is awful. JJP needs to buy a Stern, AP, or Spooky machine and take the flippers out and put them in their games.

Uh, you realize that you can set the individual coil strength for JJP games? I have not had any games where I was sitting there saying "dang, my flippers are too slow".

Exactly. Lol

Cargument #1

The Stern LZ Pin fanboys pretending it’s as good as JJP GNR

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Spot on! Lol

Hmm.... there is one kernel of truth on that. That vehicle is much more likely to be able to go a few km without needing a stupid expensive service than a Lambo.

Just like a LZ is likely to need fewer adjustments to play well than a GNR. Way more simple design; comparatively like a pedal powered car to a Lambo

For a minimal price difference, though I respect the pedal powered version, I would still take the lambo if I was cross shopping both...

I realize that, they are still slow and weak when adjusted higher.

Slow in what way; e.g. from initially pressing the button to activation? If that is your gripe you can gap the cabinet flipper switches differently.

This whole thing reminds me of the "scandal" when people thought the remade MM's had some flipper delay compared to the original. There was stress, people gnashing their teeth, pearls were even clutched... people with the new games swore theirs were defective... then someone had the bright idea (and the resources) to actually measure the flipper response on both games.

Surprise surprise, it was all in people's heads. Then people went on to complain about the next likely made up thing...

My DILE flippers were weak, but it took very little effort to dial them in. Not enough flipper gap and the EOS switches weren't adjusted properly. No need to fiddle with software setting at all (on my game, at least). Maybe you should learn how to tweak your flippers.

Also, Spooky and JJP both use EXACTLY the same flippers...B/W flipper mechs.

I know how to tweak and rebuild flippers. Since it's a pretty common complaint, it must be their system.

There is clearly a difference in flipper strength/response between JJP and every other manufacturer.

Complaint by people that don’t own them.When I play Stern’s they feel and sound cheap but I realized that work fine they just feel different.This is a fall back argument when fanboys have nothing else!Just admit that GnR at least looks better then LZ and we’ll figure out how better one plays then the other later

We already know what one plays better